Can we talk about Gabe Davis's performance?

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, gobills404 said:

The Jets made taking away the intermediate to deep ball a priority and that’s the only area Gabe can win in. I think he can still be effective if defenses are giving looks he can take advantage of, but I wanna see a heavy rotation at WR2 like we did with CB2 last year. He’s just way too 1-dimensional of a player to be out there on every play.

Flowers and Addison look pretty good. 

[AuntieEm]

1 hour ago, Jerry Jabber said:

So it’s just that simple, Josh needs to throw it more to Davis? Even if Davis is not open and runs poor routes?

Well when someone says  x player needs  y catches  and the quarterback only throws to thatcplayer 4 times hard to argue its the receivers fault he didn't get 8 catches.  

[Jerry Jabber]

1 minute ago, AuntieEm said:

Well when someone says  x player needs  y catches  and the quarterback only throws to thatcplayer 4 times hard to argue its the receivers fault he didn't get 8 catches.  

When a player is on the field for over 90% of the offensive plays, doesn’t run a full route tree, doesn’t get open often and has inconsistent hands, would you throw him the ball that much? I wouldn’t! Davis is not a #2 WR in the league. He’s limited in what he can do and should be the #3 WR. 

[BillsShredder83]

16 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Gabe Davis is the kid when you played backyard football where you forget to draw a play up for, he asks what he should run and you say “just go long.”

 

Then when everyone else is covered, you just throw it downfield to him and he will catch it 50% of the time.  
 

Those kids did have value and that’s Gabe’s value.  Just a few big chunk plays a game, not targeted very often.

This is by definition a #3. #2 needs more plays involved. He's a situational target, not a steady horse

[ngbills]

22 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

Well when someone says  x player needs  y catches  and the quarterback only throws to thatcplayer 4 times hard to argue its the receivers fault he didn't get 8 catches.  

 

18 minutes ago, Jerry Jabber said:

When a player is on the field for over 90% of the offensive plays, doesn’t run a full route tree, doesn’t get open often and has inconsistent hands, would you throw him the ball that much? I wouldn’t! Davis is not a #2 WR in the league. He’s limited in what he can do and should be the #3 WR. 

Davis is limited in his abilities plain and simple. People keep bringing up the targets. He had multiple games in the past few season with a ton of targets and still limited production. He had a 14 target game with 3 rec's and a bunch of 10/3, 8/3, 7/2 type games. You just cant really on him for the quick outs, slants or curls. SO you can only run so many deep plays to him depending on the D. He should be an accessory on this O not a main cog.

[Einstein]

For those who find value in it, PFF released it's grades for Gabe Davis:

 

- 62 offense grade. This is his lowest PFF season grade in his career. Of course, it's only been one game, but they clearly see low value from him in the Jets game.

- 61.6 grade for pass routes

- 50% contested catch rate

- Allen had a 37.5 passer rating when throwing to him

[Process]

No surprises Week 1...he is who we thought he was. Not much to discuss. 

 

We needed an upgrade last off season and we will need one next off season.

[harmonkillebrew]

Gabe is pretty much a one-trick pony WR.  He shouldn't really be a #2 in an offense that is constantly going to be playing against 2 high safety zone looks. His routes are not crisp enough to win underneath and to reliably find the holes in the zone.  He will do fine against teams with lesser personnel than the Jets or when teams play man, but OBD should have known this is not the trend for how Defenses are playing us and found a better fit for #2.

 

Josh still misses a reliable underneath guy like Beasley.  Cole had 82 catches on 112 targets in 2021. That was never reliably replaced last year (Davis had 48 catches. Unless Kincaid turns it on, it seems Josh doesn't really trust anyone underneath. It's pretty much the same as last year - Diggs or bust. 

 

Josh went from an established vet WR corps of Diggs, Emmanuel Sanders, and Beasley to Diggs, Gabe, Shakhir, and Harty.  It's not a shock that he's struggling with the underneath stuff. OBD made a mistake not addressing #2. 

[Dopey]

5 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

So you agree that Gabe should not be a #2 WR and that Josh was the primary issue on Monday night? Which is exactly what I said in my post?

 

"Fills an important role" - yeah, he is our #2 WR. If you ask anyone on the team from the front office down to the players they'll tell you the same. I'm not presuming anything, the team is.

 

It's gotta be Kincaid or we have to make a trade at some point. There is no other answer.

Yep, we agree, but my reply was to the "presumption" that he is actually our #2WR. He's not and as you pointed out, the # of passes to him reflect this. I explained how I see his role on the team. He's that big bodied WR teams need. Blocking, end zone threat, contested catches and his ability to stretch the field. That's why he's on the field so much. For all the " he can't separate" talk, he averages 16.8 yds per reception for his career. He fills an important role, but that's all he is, a role player.

 

Maybe we don't have a true #2 WR on this team right now, but saying he is and getting pissed about it is not right, IMO. He's not a #2 WR. At least for a team like ours. He's a good complimentary player. Every team could use someone like Gabe. Especially at his cost. 

 

I do agree with you on Kincaid. He should and will be the #2 WR. He is a lot better of a receiver than Gabe ever will be, but for the draft slot and the money he makes, Gabe has outperformed his contract/draft position. If Beane drafted another Gabe next season (4th round, low salary), it wouldn't be a mistake. JMO.

[AuntieEm]

54 minutes ago, ngbills said:

 

Davis is limited in his abilities plain and simple. People keep bringing up the targets. He had multiple games in the past few season with a ton of targets and still limited production. He had a 14 target game with 3 rec's and a bunch of 10/3, 8/3, 7/2 type games. You just cant really on him for the quick outs, slants or curls. SO you can only run so many deep plays to him depending on the D. He should be an accessory on this O not a main cog.

Well pretty much all players except a franchise qb are accessories not the main cog.  I'm just glad our FQB doesn't go for the cam Newton line of accessories.  Tell me that guy didn't take a few too many hits to the noggin.  Even so as long as cam is happy with his style choices hope that's the extent of his issues.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by AuntieEm

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

18 hours ago, Pirate Angel said:

So, keep all corners and both safeties close to? The plays aren't designed to air it out its designed to spread the defense Allen decides to air it out, he has options underneath he holds the ball to long and wants to make the big strike. 

 

We must be watching a different game then because I saw plenty of deep outs going on. 

[NoSaint]

5 hours ago, harmonkillebrew said:

Gabe is pretty much a one-trick pony WR.  He shouldn't really be a #2 in an offense that is constantly going to be playing against 2 high safety zone looks. His routes are not crisp enough to win underneath and to reliably find the holes in the zone.  He will do fine against teams with lesser personnel than the Jets or when teams play man, but OBD should have known this is not the trend for how Defenses are playing us and found a better fit for #2.

 

Josh still misses a reliable underneath guy like Beasley.  Cole had 82 catches on 112 targets in 2021. That was never reliably replaced last year (Davis had 48 catches. Unless Kincaid turns it on, it seems Josh doesn't really trust anyone underneath. It's pretty much the same as last year - Diggs or bust. 

 

Josh went from an established vet WR corps of Diggs, Emmanuel Sanders, and Beasley to Diggs, Gabe, Shakhir, and Harty.  It's not a shock that he's struggling with the underneath stuff. OBD made a mistake not addressing #2. 

the worry is he’s not a speed guy or a jumper… so the one trick is not even something he’s particularly skilled at. 
 

he seems like a good guy and hard worker and I hoped he’d show up big when healthy but…. That was a bad night.

[Saint Douggie]

I always see/hear people reference Gabe’s ankle when explaining why he sucked last year 

 

What I want to understand is what did his ankle have to do with him dropping every other pass that hit his hands

[NewEra]

23 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Flowers and Addison look pretty good. 

As did Kincaid 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

On 9/13/2023 at 11:03 PM, HappyDays said:

 

I am right there with you. I believe Kincaid is ready for that kind of role right now. He had a 100% catch percentage on Monday night and he plays in the area of the field that everyone agrees Josh should pay more attention to. I think just by giving him the featured #2 job, that alone would solve a lot of our inefficiency problems. That being said he's a rookie so it remains to be seen if he's actually ready to take on that kind of responsibility but it's worth a shot.

 

I remember seeing a stat that 20/26 yards that Kincaid got were YAC. He absolutely fights for more yards. I think we need to lean on him more 

[newcam2012]

15 minutes ago, NewEra said:

As did Kincaid 

The Kincaid hype after that first game is pretty crazy. Really what did he do? 

 

Four catches for twenty six yards. 

 

We all want him to do well but damn that's about about as insignificant as it gets. Perhaps he passed the sniff test. That's about as far as I will go. I'm still in wait and see mood. 

 

 

 

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

The Kincaid hype after that first game is pretty crazy. Really what did he do? 

 

Four catches for twenty six yards. 

 

We all want him to do well but damn that's about about as insignificant as it gets. Perhaps he passed the sniff test. That's about as far as I will go. I'm still in wait and see mood. 

 

 

 

Uhhhhhh…..He got open and caught the ball every time he was targeted …. 
💯 catch rate.  That stat is more important than catches and yards.  
 

what more could he do?  He doesn’t throw the ball to himself.  He looked good.  No one is saying he l deserves all pro.  
 

do you have an any examples of Kincaid being overhyped based on that game?  I didn’t see much tbh.  Mostly, “he looked good”.  He did

Edited September 15, 2023 by NewEra

[BillzFreak]

6 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

The Kincaid hype after that first game is pretty crazy. Really what did he do? 

 

Four catches for twenty six yards. 

 

We all want him to do well but damn that's about about as insignificant as it gets. Perhaps he passed the sniff test. That's about as far as I will go. I'm still in wait and see mood. 

 

 

 

Let's see I've heard from people who review the all 22 tape he was getting open on his routes he ran. It's not his fault that Josh went full sugar high the whole second half. 

[ngbills]

27 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

The Kincaid hype after that first game is pretty crazy. Really what did he do? 

 

Four catches for twenty six yards. 

 

We all want him to do well but damn that's about about as insignificant as it gets. Perhaps he passed the sniff test. That's about as far as I will go. I'm still in wait and see mood. 

 

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Uhhhhhh…..He got open and caught the ball every time he was targeted …. 
💯 catch rate.  That stat is more important than catches and yards.  
 

what more could he do?  He doesn’t throw the ball to himself.  He looked good.  No one is saying he l deserves all pro.  
 

do you have an any examples of Kincaid being overhyped based on that game?  I didn’t see much tbh.  Mostly, “he looked good”.  He did

Its one thing to say this guy is going to be great, etc. Its another to say this game is an example of why is he going to be great. It was not a bad game and there is no reason to criticize. Its just a bit overhyped to say "wow, look how amazing he was". He caught for balls for 20 yards. He did what he was supposed to do. Change the number on the jersey and he could have been Dawson Knox. Again, doesn't mean there is anything wrong with his game, just that people are exaggerating everything he does right now. 

[newcam2012]

32 minutes ago, BillzFreak said:

Let's see I've heard from people who review the all 22 tape he was getting open on his routes he ran. It's not his fault that Josh went full sugar high the whole second half. 

Agree but there's no way you can declare Kincaid had an elite performance. He wasn't impactful no matter who is to blame . That's really the bottom line. He caught 4 balls for 26 yards. 

 

LaPorta and Musgrave had better games statistically. 

 

Seems like some Bills fans want to wish Kincaid as elite . Let's wait and see because the Jets game was just average. 

[NewEra]

12 minutes ago, ngbills said:

 

Its one thing to say this guy is going to be great, etc. Its another to say this game is an example of why is he going to be great. It was not a bad game and there is no reason to criticize. Its just a bit overhyped to say "wow, look how amazing he was". He caught for balls for 20 yards. He did what he was supposed to do. Change the number on the jersey and he could have been Dawson Knox. Again, doesn't mean there is anything wrong with his game, just that people are exaggerating everything he does right now. 

Ok…..I didn’t realize I ever said how amazing he was based on this game.  
 

Yes, I’ve been overhyping him more than anyone on the board, but I haven’t said much of anything about him since the jets game.  I said he looked pretty good.  As he did.

[Einstein]

On 9/14/2023 at 2:51 PM, newcam2012 said:

Flowers and Addison look pretty good. 

 

Flowers looks scary good.

 

Extremely fast like Tyreek Hill but can cut on a dime.

 

 

 

 

[newcam2012]

43 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Uhhhhhh…..He got open and caught the ball every time he was targeted …. 
💯 catch rate.  That stat is more important than catches and yards.  
 

what more could he do?  He doesn’t throw the ball to himself.  He looked good.  No one is saying he l deserves all pro.  
 

do you have an any examples of Kincaid being overhyped based on that game?  I didn’t see much tbh.  Mostly, “he looked good”.  He did

Ok if you say so. He looked average to me. He looked insignificant to me. He wasn't a weapon. He basically did nothing to impact the game. The stats back that up. Him getting open could mean the Jets didn't consider him a threat. I'd disregard offensive players too if they aren't targeted. If he was to become a threat maybe he doesn't get as open. 

 

Look I think he has a lot of potential. He might be very good. But the Jet performance and impact was minimal. 

 

 

[Big Blitz]

23 hours ago, harmonkillebrew said:

 

 

Josh went from an established vet WR corps of Diggs, Emmanuel Sanders, and Beasley to Diggs, Gabe, Shakhir, and Harty.  It's not a shock that he's struggling with the underneath stuff. OBD made a mistake not addressing #2. 

 

Dam.  I read that and it just makes me sad.  
 

The only thing that’s going to salvage this O is a rookie TE or somehow Davis figures it out.  
 

I consider Harty a gadget guy.  Not a steady slot WR that just dissects zone coverages and gets to the open spots like Cole did.  

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Ok if you say so. He looked average to me. He looked insignificant to me. He wasn't a weapon. He basically did nothing to impact the game. The stats back that up. Him getting open could mean the Jets didn't consider him a threat. I'd disregard offensive players too if they aren't targeted. If he was to become a threat maybe he doesn't get as open. 

 

Look I think he has a lot of potential. He might be very good. But the Jet performance and impact was minimal. 

 

 

You should invest in the all-22.  You might not be so clueless.  

[BillzFreak]

33 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Agree but there's no way you can declare Kincaid had an elite performance. He wasn't impactful no matter who is to blame . That's really the bottom line. He caught 4 balls for 26 yards. 

 

LaPorta and Musgrave had better games statistically. 

 

Seems like some Bills fans want to wish Kincaid as elite . Let's wait and see because the Jets game was just average. 

Actually as a receiving threat if you are open and the ball doesn't come you're way you can blame someone lol. That's just the nature of the position though. All he can do is run his routes and be open and it's up to the QB to throw it his way or not. 

[Einstein's Dog]

48 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Dam.  I read that and it just makes me sad.  
 

The only thing that’s going to salvage this O is a rookie TE or somehow Davis figures it out.  
 

I consider Harty a gadget guy.  Not a steady slot WR that just dissects zone coverages and gets to the open spots like Cole did.  

I'm still hoping the FO can pull off the Mike Evans deal.  I was disgusted when I saw the replay of the pathetic route that Davis ran on one of the interceptions.  Upgrading WR2 from Davis to Evans would elevate the entire WR core.

[billsfan89]

On 9/13/2023 at 10:43 PM, julian said:

I’m ready to make this a Diggs Kincaid offense as far as amount of targets. I’m not paying Davis.

Get Knox more involved too

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

Uhhhhhh…..He got open and caught the ball every time he was targeted …. 
💯 catch rate.  That stat is more important than catches and yards.  
 

what more could he do?  He doesn’t throw the ball to himself.  He looked good.  No one is saying he l deserves all pro.  
 

do you have an any examples of Kincaid being overhyped based on that game?  I didn’t see much tbh.  Mostly, “he looked good”.  He did

 

he caught 4 dump offs--none more than 9 yards. A single  1st down (2 yards).  zero in the second half.

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, BillzFreak said:

Actually as a receiving threat if you are open and the ball doesn't come you're way you can blame someone lol. That's just the nature of the position though. All he can do is run his routes and be open and it's up to the QB to throw it his way or not. 

I'm not denying that. I'm just amazed at how some are salivating over Kincaid's first game. I'm mean let's get real! It wasn't special or memorable. It was average and ok. Good at best. Four catches and 26 yards and some fans are doing backflips and somersaults. 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

You should invest in the all-22.  You might not be so clueless.  

You should be a little more realistic with what you see. You might not sound so foolish. 

 

Bottom line in 4-4 26 yards. Go ahead and tell yourself lies. 

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Flowers looks scary good.

 

Extremely fast like Tyreek Hill but can cut on a dime.

 

 

 

 

He's the WR I really wanted even though he's small. 

 

He looks the part so far. He's exactly the type of WR the Bills needed. Not a TE who they are basically using as a WR. 

 

I don't blame Beane because the draft didn't materialize where they could grab a WR of value. They got the best TE in the board but others like LaPorta and Musgrave were highly rated. Both of them look good after their first game. 

[NewEra]

18 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

he caught 4 dump offs--none more than 9 yards. A single  1st down (2 yards).  zero in the second half.

Cool story.  Thanks.  

 

Wth is everyone so nit-picky about everything?
 

I said he looked pretty good and I said he looked good.  Two pretty basic compliments.    I didn’t say even say he looked great.  He looked good and pretty good.   Maybe I should said he looked deceptively good.  Ie: he wasn’t pretty good, until you really look at the film and see that he did everything pretty good.  
 

He doesn’t have to accumulate lots of stats to look good doing what he does.  He had a 2 nice blocks, 4 catches and some rac.  Showed physicality.  Ran good routes and got separation.  The QB threw in a different direction.  One of the reasons that we lost is because we didn’t look his way enough.  
 

 

14 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

You should be a little more realistic with what you see. You might not sound so foolish. 

 

Bottom line in 4-4 26 yards. Go ahead and tell yourself lies. 

He's the WR I really wanted even though he's small. 

 

He looks the part so far. He's exactly the type of WR the Bills needed. Not a TE who they are basically using as a WR. 

 

I don't blame Beane because the draft didn't materialize where they could grab a WR of value. They got the best TE in the board but others like LaPorta and Musgrave were highly rated. Both of them look good after their first game. 

You’re looking at the box score bruh.  And I look foolish. 🤣 we’re talking about how he looked. You act as if he only existed on 4 pass plays.  

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Agree but there's no way you can declare Kincaid had an elite performance. He wasn't impactful no matter who is to blame . That's really the bottom line. He caught 4 balls for 26 yards. 

 

LaPorta and Musgrave had better games statistically. 

 

Seems like some Bills fans want to wish Kincaid as elite . Let's wait and see because the Jets game was just average. 

I think you're beinf asinine. He caught every ball thrown to him and picked up very solid yards after contact. If the all 22 is showing that Kincaid is getting open, it's not crazy to say that so far has shown to be a more reliable option than Gabe Davis and coaches should direct Josh as such. As "damned by faint praise" as that statement is.

[Simon]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

I'm just amazed at how some are salivating over Kincaid's first game.

 

Could you provide some examples of the people who are salivating over his first game?

[Matt_In_NH]

On 9/14/2023 at 6:13 AM, Matt_In_NH said:

No, now is not the time

I thought I told you guys no we can’t talk about this?

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Ok if you say so. He looked average to me. He looked insignificant to me. He wasn't a weapon. He basically did nothing to impact the game.

Kincaid played well and did things that don't show up on the stat sheet.

For example, look at this monster block I found while watching the ALL-22.
 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

51 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Cool story.  Thanks.  

 

Wth is everyone so nit-picky about everything?
 

I said he looked pretty good and I said he looked good.  Two pretty basic compliments.    I didn’t say even say he looked great.  He looked good and pretty good.   Maybe I should said he looked deceptively good.  Ie: he wasn’t pretty good, until you really look at the film and see that he did everything pretty good.  
 

He doesn’t have to accumulate lots of stats to look good doing what he does.  He had a 2 nice blocks, 4 catches and some rac.  Showed physicality.  Ran good routes and got separation.  The QB threw in a different direction.  One of the reasons that we lost is because we didn’t look his way enough.  
 

 

You’re looking at the box score bruh.  And I look foolish. 🤣 we’re talking about how he looked. You act as if he only existed on 4 pass plays.  

 

4 hours ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

 

I remember seeing a stat that 20/26 yards that Kincaid got were YAC. He absolutely fights for more yards. I think we need to lean on him more 

 

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

Uhhhhhh…..He got open and caught the ball every time he was targeted …. 
💯 catch rate.  That stat is more important than catches and yards.  
 

what more could he do?  He doesn’t throw the ball to himself.  He looked good.  No one is saying he l deserves all pro.  
 

do you have an any examples of Kincaid being overhyped based on that game?  I didn’t see much tbh.  Mostly, “he looked good”.  He did

 

He caught 4 short check downs for a total of 25 yards.  Then was quickly brought down.  The YAC for 25 total yards isn't something to point to.

[HOUSE]

12 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Could you provide some examples of the people who are salivating over his first game?

There was one wacko who said he made some nice catches 

[Simon]

Just now, HOUSE said:

There was one wacko who said he made some nice catches 

What?!

I will find that son of a butcher and make him pay. 

[Mr. WEO]

15 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Could you provide some examples of the people who are salivating over his first game?

 

 

to be honest, the juices started flowing well before game 1: