Vikings Chad Greenway takes shot at Leslie Frazier defense

[BillsFan2313]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Sure. Did we play 3rd string QBs all season? 

 

How many points have we given up in the playoffs the last 3 years? 

[Jerome007]

On 9/3/2023 at 2:58 PM, HaldimandBills said:

I dont mind giving up the odd big play against superior offenses when they'll inevitably score anyways after a 12 play drive. I'd rather risk some creativity and force turnovers and stops.

I actually liked the Bills have given out so few long pass plays since McD has been here. Last year there were a few because Hyde was out, so Hyde & Poyer have a say in this too. But as if giving a "few" easy TDs per game was minor stuff. Like, what? Yes, if the opposing offense has to 12 plays, there is more chance for mistakes, turnovers, etc. It was just playing soft at bad times that caused the problems. Not the overall style of defense IMO.

[GunnerBill]

34 minutes ago, BillsFan2313 said:

 

How many points have we given up in the playoffs the last 3 years? 

 

You guys are like broken records. Yes, the last two playoff losses have sucked. But the criticism of Leslie Frazier is way over the top. The man is a darn good football coach. His record shows that.

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Oh okay so historically bad if we only count two games. Got it. 

 

Nobody is denying they have played badly in those two games.

The year before against KC add that one as well

 

Colts game they played poor.

 

Houston blew a 16 point lead.

 

It’s just not been a good playoff defence with him in totality. There’s no way around that 

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Isnt every game in the playoffs an elimination game? What about the game changing INT returned for a TD by Taron Johnson? That's a top 3 play in franchise history. And how about the Hyde end-zone INT at home against the Patriots? 

No doubt defense choked away a win against Houston and 13 seconds. Cinci last year was an aberration. Bills were down so many players and emotionally spent. 

Still want to see more from the stars on D. This playoff season need to see Miller, Rousseau, Oliver, White, and Milano step up.

1. Yes they played well in a borderline hurricane game against Balt.

 

2. they also played well against Mac jones in a -10 playoff game

 

Those were their 2 good games in 8 playoff games under Frazier and both of them were under pretty extreme weather.

 

If that’s good enough for you, I’m not sure what to say

[34-78-83]

The quote is likely more relevant to Frazier's defense when he was the HC in Minnesota. The Bills didn't run a ton of true Tampa 2. They ran more cover 3, cover 2 man (which varies from Tampa 2), quarters coverage, etc. But of course dolts are going to open fire at any opportunity.

 

With that said, I am excited for the prospect of some more risk taking in McDermott's D, than when under Frazier.

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

The year before against KC add that one as well

 

Colts game they played poor.

 

Houston blew a 16 point lead.

 

 

I don't agree they played poor vs Indy. And the 16 point lead was in part blown by the offense turning the ***** thing over.

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't agree they played poor vs Indy. And the 16 point lead was in part blown by the offense turning the ***** thing over.

472 yards against a washed up Philip rivers they let up and they only turned the ball over once in that Houston game.

 

[Scott7975]

On 9/3/2023 at 2:49 PM, SWATeam said:

Only issue with a more aggressive approach is that we are old and slow on the backend and it will leave us vulnerable to the big play.

 

Still better than a slow death by all these frustratingly long drives.  The worst thing that can happen is we give up a big TD and give the ball back to our offense.  

 

Mostly what I hated about our defense is all the 3rd and longs we gave up.  It was like clockwork and you always know that 3rd and forever is getting converted when it should have no chance.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:

472 yards against a washed up Philip rivers they let up and they only turned the ball over once in that Houston game.

 

 

472 yards but only 24 points.

 

A critical turnover and couldn't move the ball second half. Easy to pin that on the defense but they kept the Texans offense below their season average for points. Whereas their defense had one of their better days and beat their season average by 6 in holding us to 19. 

 

That loss was on the offense. Pure and simple.

[Bermuda Triangle]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't agree they played poor vs Indy. And the 16 point lead was in part blown by the offense turning the ***** thing over.

"Only" 472 yards & 27 first downs allowed, with Indy having the ball for over 34:00.  No turnovers forced, and no sacks.

 

In your estimation, what would amount to them playing "poorly"?

[BillsFan130]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

472 yards but only 24 points.

 

A critical turnover and couldn't move the ball second half. Easy to pin that on the defense but they kept the Texans offense below their season average for points. Whereas their defense had one of their better days and beat their season average by 6 in holding us to 19. 

 

That loss was on the offense. Pure and simple.

 

You can’t say the defence didn’t collapse…

They had a 16 point lead and led up 19 points in the 2nd half…

 

Offence sucked, defence also sucked in the clutch. Again.

[Bermuda Triangle]

Just now, BillsFan130 said:

 

You can’t say the defence didn’t collapse…

They had a 16 point lead and led up 19 points in the 2nd half…

 

Offence sucked, defence also sucked in the clutch. Again.

Siran Neal also dropped an easy Pick 6 early in the second half.  Won't show up in the stat sheet, though.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Bermuda Triangle said:

"Only" 472 yards & 27 first downs allowed, with Indy having the ball for over 34:00.  No turnovers forced, and no sacks.

 

In your estimation, what would amount to them playing "poorly"?

 

They kept the Colts 4 points below their season average. 

 

This is exactly the point. The Bills defense is intentionally bend but don't break and fans HATE that style cos most of them play way too much Madden. So sometimes they give up a lot of yards and some first downs you will find frustrating. It is the risk of that style of defense. 

 

I repeat.... the Frazier hate is way over the top. It is borderline deranged.

 

[Bermuda Triangle]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They kept the Colts 4 points below their season average. 

 

This is exactly the point. The Bills defense is intentionally bend but don't break and fans HATE that style cos most of them play way too much Madden. So sometimes they give up a lot of yards and some first downs you will find frustrating. It is the risk of that style of defense. 

 

I repeat.... the Frazier hate is way over the top. It is borderline deranged.

 

Bolded is comical.  Because people don't agree with your opinion (and yes, it is very much opinion, and not fact), they're unknowledgable.

 

I've seen very little "hate" of Frazier here - that's a strawman that you've repeated throughout this thread.  The biggest critiques of his defenses with the Bills are predictability and poor playoff performances.

 

Are you saying that if the Colts had converted the 4th and goal in the first half, only then would their defensive performance been bad (because the Colts would have then exceeded their season average in PPG).   Alternatively, had the Colts opted to kick the chip shot FG, then how would the Bills defense have graded out that day?  If the game plan was to allow the Colts to control the clock, allow > 50% 3rd down conversions and 50% 4th down conversions, then mission accomplished.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Bermuda Triangle

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Bermuda Triangle said:

Bolded is comical.  Because people don't agree with your opinion (and yes, it is very much opinion, and not fact), they're unknowledgable.

 

I've seen very little "hate" of Frazier here - that's a strawman that you've repeated throughout this thread.  The biggest critiques of his defenses with the Bills are predictability and poor playoff performances.

 

Are you saying that if the Colts had converted the 4th and goal in the first half, only then would their defensive performance been bad (because the Colts would have then exceeded their season average in PPG).   Alternatively, had the Colts opted to kick the chip shot FG, then how would the Bills defense have graded out that day?

 

Well of course if different things had happened the overall outcome would have been different. 

 

Jesus your argument isn't just falling apart it is nearing insanity. 

[Bermuda Triangle]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Well of course if different things had happened the overall outcome would have been different. 

 

Jesus your argument isn't just falling apart it is nearing insanity. 

Nothing substantive in response - just another ad hominem attack.  

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Nothing substantive in response - just another ad hominem attack.  

 

What substantive points did you want to the question "if different things had happened would your opinion be different?"

 

Seriously.

[Bermuda Triangle]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What substantive points did you want to the question "if different things had happened would your opinion be different?"

 

Seriously.

Is the crux of your argument that the Bills defense didn't play poorly against the Colts solely because the Colts didn't score their season average in PPG?

[wppete]

Yeah I think we will see a lot more aggressive Defense this year…

 

But all the talking heads on ESPN and cable TV have been telling us Leslie Frazier just walked away for 1 year and will return next year 😂... Cmon no one in their right minds believe this. 

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Is the crux of your argument that the Bills defense didn't play poorly against the Colts solely because the Colts didn't score their season average in PPG?

 

It is that they didn't play poorly because they largely kept the Colts infront of them, stopped them when they needed to and ultimately held a good offense below its seasonal average. Had a few critical moments in the game gone the other way then of course I might look back on it differently. That is the nature of sport. In the KC Divisional Round game the Bills had a 3rd down on the Chiefs penultimate drive (the one where Hill scored the long touchdown). If the Bills stop them there they likely run out the clock, win holding the high powered Kansas City Chiefs to 26 in a home playoff game. Does anyone then say the defense was terrible that day? But they didn't. And they gave up 42 points. That is the fact. So you have to judge what actually happened not an alternate reality where plays that the Bills made weren't made or plays that the Colts didn't make were made, or vice versa in the Chiefs game. 90% of professional level sporting contests have 2 or 3 critical moments in a game that if they go the other way change the complexiton, the outcome and the long range perspective. Yesterday if Alejandro Garnacho was 1 inch further back Manchester United win away at Arsenal for the first time in 6 years and are above them in the league. But he wasn't. Goal not given. Arsenal go down the other end and score and win. Today their manager's negative gameplan is panned. It very nearly worked. But it didn't. That is sport. We can only deal with the realities of what did happen. Counter factuals don't move the needle.

Edited September 4, 2023 by GunnerBill