CincyBillsFan Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 18 hours ago, GoBills808 said: I mean sure but that's how someone who didn't like Allen would characterize that game  As probably the biggest Josh Allen fan I would say his line should have been around 65% for 425 and 4TDs except Beasley threw one into a DB and Smoke ran the wrong route  Dawkins and Shakir kept the game close not Allen The Shakir drop was huge. Not only was it a missed chance to gain 55 yards late in the 1st half on a perfectly thrown ball but it happened at a moment where the Bills were leading 17 - 6 and still dominating. Had he caught that pass, which a high school player would be expected to catch, the Bills likely use up most of the half and score a TD or at worst a FG. By dropping that pass the Bills ended up punting, there was a great return and the Dolphins kicked a FG to pull within one score.     1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 I always thought the better comparison as far as his game goes would be that of Arron Rogers their games are very similar especially when Rogers first started playing . Their arm strength is about the same they both have cannons and the younger Rogers was almost as mobile as Josh . Â But to have those numbers that are comparable to Peyton is pretty impressive to say the least !! And Josh may be even closer if some of his WR wouldn't have dropped some of the passes that they did . Just saying ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDingus Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 On 7/6/2023 at 4:43 AM, GunnerBill said:  Yea while the league had already started down the road of making the passing game easier it hadn't made much progress in the early 00s - witness the Patriots "holding" quite literally the Greatest Show on Turf in the Superbowl.  The 2004 changes were, essentially, and admission that what they had tried before had not had the desired effect.  I watched that Superbowl back on NFLN a few weeks ago when the replayed it. It bears little resemblence to the way you can play defense today. Witness the penalty called on the Eagles at the end of this year's.  Exactly!  And remember, it wasn't long ago that teams wouldn't draft QB's who didn't play under center in college. QB's who played most of their snaps from shotgun & in spread offenses were seen as "system QB's" and treated like lepers.  Defenses were more limited, offensive philosophies changed, and numbers went through the roof.  As a Texas Tech alumni, our QB's were all viewed as "system" QB's... Everyone from Kliff Kingsbury to Graham Harrell weren't taken seriously. Then the league evolved, and spread offenses became widely adopted in the NFL. Texas Tech QB's suddenly weren't a pariah, and 3 QB's who started their careers at Tech went on to be drafted (Baker Mayfield, Davis Webb, Patrick Mahomes).  I'm not saying all this to discredit Josh, but all you have to do is look at QB passing numbers in Peyton's first 5 years vs those in Josh's first 5 years to see there's a MASSIVE difference in how the game is played. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted July 7, 2023 Author Share Posted July 7, 2023 On 7/3/2023 at 1:41 PM, Chicken Boo said:  It was a different era. Peyton's receivers were also allowed to get mugged on their routes and killed after the catch.  The linebackers of that time are better than the linebackers today.  Raw Lewis and Urlacher come to mind. So for argument sake let's call them the gold standard. Josh and all the elite QBs and OCs would kill them in passing downs. Far more athletic LBs nowadays.   If we were a running team I'd agree but I just don't see it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 49 minutes ago, JerseyBills said: Raw Lewis and Urlacher come to mind. So for argument sake let's call them the gold standard. Josh and all the elite QBs and OCs would kill them in passing downs. Far more athletic LBs nowadays.   If we were a running team I'd agree but I just don't see it Urlacher was very good defending the pass  played safety in college Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 3 hours ago, BigDingus said: I'm not saying all this to discredit Josh, but all you have to do is look at QB passing numbers in Peyton's first 5 years vs those in Josh's first 5 years to see there's a MASSIVE difference in how the game is played. Or we can consider the more obvious answer. Allen is as good or better than Manning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, JerseyBills said: Raw Lewis and Urlacher come to mind. So for argument sake let's call them the gold standard. Josh and all the elite QBs and OCs would kill them in passing downs. Far more athletic LBs nowadays.   If we were a running team I'd agree but I just don't see it  The disrespect...  Where on God's green Earth did you get the impression that Ray Lewis was poor in coverage? He is 6th all time in interceptions by a LB, arguably the greatest linebacker in history and I'd argue, one of the highest football IQs in league history.   He also ran the 40 in 4.58. Urlacher ran a 4.57. Both are first ballot Hall of Famers.   Ray was the general of the defense, but it wasn't comprised of just him. At different times, Peter Boulware, Jamie Sharper, Adalius Thomas, Suggs, Ed Reed, Chris Mccallister, the d-line...no QB is killing them at any time. Part of the reason he has 2 Super Bowl rings and was the leader of the greatest defense, statistically, in history.      Edited July 7, 2023 by Chicken Boo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 On 7/6/2023 at 1:28 PM, GoBills808 said: I mean sure but that's how someone who didn't like Allen would characterize that game  As probably the biggest Josh Allen fan I would say his line should have been around 65% for 425 and 4TDs except Beasley threw one into a DB and Smoke ran the wrong route  Dawkins and Shakir kept the game close not Allen You act as if chucking the ball 50 yards each play is some sort of recipe for success? It's why our offense sucked for the back 8 (suck as in playing like a video game, 3 point shots or nothing (great analogy by another poster), more turnovers + more sacks from slower developing plays. No rhythm) You're right, only Allen could have won us the game WE PLAYED. Maybe you should ask yourself if it makes sense to be playing a high risk / reward offense against the Skyler Dorsal Fins. We had the game won when we walked out, until we almost handed it over losing our lead in the 2nd half.  The medicine that is leave it to Josh to do some amazingly crazy things isn't the cure, it's the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 1 minute ago, Mikie2times said: You act as if chucking the ball 50 yards each play is some sort of recipe for success? It's why our offense sucked for the back 8 (suck as in playing like a video game, 3 point shots or nothing (great analogy by another poster), more turnovers + more sacks from slower developing plays. No rhythm) You're right, only Allen could have won us the game WE PLAYED. Maybe you should ask yourself if it makes sense to be playing a high risk / reward offense against the Skyler Dorsal Fins. We had the game won when we walked out, until we almost handed it over losing our lead in the 2nd half.  The medicine that is leave it to Josh to do some amazingly crazy things isn't the cure, it's the problem. NFL offenses w highest net YPA 2022  Chiefs Dolphins Eagles Niners Lions Bills  These are all very good offenses, best in the league for the most part. Offenses w lowest net YPA 2022 are all the bad ones:  Bears Cards Colts Texans Rams  Yes, throwing the ball downfield is a recipe for success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: NFL offenses w highest net YPA 2022  Chiefs Dolphins Eagles Niners Lions Bills  These are all very good offenses, best in the league for the most part. Offenses w lowest net YPA 2022 are all the bad ones:  Bears Cards Colts Texans Rams  Yes, throwing the ball downfield is a recipe for success. Don't hurt yourself with some of these advanced stats, you might have to reconcile things like the second worst EPA of the season vs the Dolphins or the worse completion % out of any of the teams you listed. Bottom 20 actually. You know, what we sustain drives with..... best keep all this data to the regular season as well. We wouldn't want to deep dive into how the chuck and duck does in the playoffs. That is unless you want to stick with 2021, which you have before. She will end up being like your first girlfriend when you speak of her at the rate we are going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 1 minute ago, Mikie2times said: Don't hurt yourself with some of these advanced stats, you might have to reconcile things like the second worst EPA of the season vs the Dolphins or the worse completion % out of any of the teams you listed. Bottom 20 actually. You know, what we sustain drives with..... best keep all this data to the regular season as well. We wouldn't want to deep dive into how the chuck and duck does in the playoffs. That is unless you want to stick with 2021, which you have before. She will end up being like your first girlfriend when you speak of her at the rate we are going. it's going to be ok  deep breaths 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl2526 Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 Hall of Fame careers for QBs depend a lot on stats, but there are some other factors that go into the mix. On big one is Super Bowl appearances and wins. Peyton Manning has them. To this point, Josh Allen doesn't. He might get into the Hall of Fame without that jewel in his crown but it would be much more of a sure thing if he had some by the end of his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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