Doc Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 What do you think ownership is doing wrong? I mean, they bought the Bills and within their 3rd full season of ownership got their HC and GM and the team was finally back in the playoffs after 17 seasons. And hockey is Terry's first love. I mean the team was very successful under Golisano who was cheap and didn't care about hockey, other than wanting to prevent the Sabres from leaving Buffalo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 10 hours ago, Doc said: What do you think ownership is doing wrong? I mean, they bought the Bills and within their 3rd full season of ownership got their HC and GM and the team was finally back in the playoffs after 17 seasons. And hockey is Terry's first love. I mean the team was very successful under Golisano who was cheap and didn't care about hockey, other than wanting to prevent the Sabres from leaving Buffalo. Terry hit a HR with the hiring of Sean and Brandon. With the Sabres he has struck out with the GM/HC hirings. That's the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPride12 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 Just now, Gregg said: Terry hit a HR with the hiring of Sean and Brandon. With the Sabres he has struck out with the GM/HC hirings. That's the difference. *Got very lucky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 1 minute ago, BillsPride12 said: *Got very lucky Probably right but at the end of the day he gets credit for those hires lucky or not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 (edited) 12 hours ago, Doc said: What do you think ownership is doing wrong? I mean, they bought the Bills and within their 3rd full season of ownership got their HC and GM and the team was finally back in the playoffs after 17 seasons. And hockey is Terry's first love. I mean the team was very successful under Golisano who was cheap and didn't care about hockey, other than wanting to prevent the Sabres from leaving Buffalo. There's such a deeply entrenched culture of losing with the Sabres over 13 years, it's so hard to turn it around. You'd think once over this draught the club would luck out into a solid playoff season like we see from other teams every year (i.e. NJ last year or Vancouver this year). But nope, not here. We can't have nice things. They draft children, and hope the kids develop into good NHL players,,, but it's not always the case. And these kids have no real idea what it takes to make the playoffs game in and game out. I personally think the Sabres need to spend on a head coach who's been there and done it (like the Rangers hired Laviolette this season)....and infuse the roster with some experienced solid players who have playoff experience. Edited April 11 by zow2 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 2 minutes ago, zow2 said: There's such a deeply entrenched culture of losing with the Sabres over 13 years, it's so hard to turn it around. You'd think once over this draught the club would luck out into a solid playoff season like we see from other teams every year (i.e. NJ last year or Vancouver this year). But nope, not here. We can't have nice things. They draft children, and hope the kids develop into good NHL players,,, but it's not always the case. And these kids have no real idea what it takes to make the playoffs game in and game out. I personally think the Sabres need to spend on a head coach who's been there and done it (like the Rangers hired Laviolette this season)....and infuse the roster with some experienced solid players who have playoff experience. You could make the argument that the Sabres were the most disappointing team in hockey this year. Maybe the Devils as well given how they regressed. But given the year the Sabres had last season and the fact that it is a young core group I expected them to be like what the Devils were last year a team that would get over 100 points and make the playoffs. It will be interesting to see if Terry fires Granato after the season. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 (edited) 12 hours ago, Doc said: What do you think ownership is doing wrong? I mean, they bought the Bills and within their 3rd full season of ownership got their HC and GM and the team was finally back in the playoffs after 17 seasons. And hockey is Terry's first love. I mean the team was very successful under Golisano who was cheap and didn't care about hockey, other than wanting to prevent the Sabres from leaving Buffalo. I think the main thing Pegula is doing wrong is that he absolutely refuses to hire anyone with actual NHL experience in their job and then allow them to simply do their job. He has not hired a single GM with any experience, and only 1 coach with any experience (Bylsma), who he quickly fired because the players wanted him to. I feel like he keeps trying to be the “smartest guy in the room”, hiring these inexperienced coaches and GMs. I think he wants to find a young coach that can be around for many years, which sounds good in theory but it rarely happens in the NHL. I mean, Granato is the 6th longest tenured coach in the NHL right now. NHL coaches are hired to be fired. He also seems to value communication with ownership over actually being good at your job. I guess that’s why talks fell apart with Jim Rutherford. Imagine if they had hired him to be president of hockey ops years ago when they had discussions with him. Look how quickly he’s turned around Vancouver. I think with the Bills he got lucky. If it were up to Pegula alone, Whaley would probably still be GM. He wanted to keep Marrone. He hired Rex freaking Ryan (though I give him credit for firing him so quickly). They lucked into McDermott and Beane. It was reported that to hire McDermott/Beane, Pegula had to agree to give them total control of football operations. And it was also reported a couple years ago that the decision to give them total control over football operations is something Pegula regrets. Even with all the success. Yikes! I think we are damn lucky he found McDermott, who brought in Beane. I just hope like heck that both are never fired at the same time, otherwise I’d be very scared who he’d hire to replace them. Edited April 11 by BillsFan4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 17 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: I think the main thing Pegula is doing wrong is that he absolutely refuses to hire anyone with actual NHL experience in their job and then allow them to simply do their job. He has not hired a single GM with any experience, and only 1 coach with any experience (Bylsma), who he quickly fired because the players wanted him to. I feel like he keeps trying to be the “smartest guy in the room”, hiring these inexperienced coaches and GMs. I think he wants to find a young coach that can be around for many years, which sounds good in theory but it rarely happens in the NHL. I mean, Granato is the 6th longest tenured coach in the NHL right now. NHL coaches are hired to be fired. He also seems to value communication with ownership over actually being good at your job. I guess that’s why talks fell apart with Jim Rutherford. Imagine if they had hired him to be president of hockey ops years ago when they had discussions with him. Look how quickly he’s turned around Vancouver. I think with the Bills he got lucky. If it were up to Pegula alone, Whaley would probably still be GM. He wanted to keep Marrone. He hired Rex freaking Ryan (though I give him credit for firing him so quickly). They lucked into McDermott and Beane. It was reported that to hire McDermott/Beane, Pegula had to agree to give them total control of football operations. And it was also reported a couple years ago that the decision to give them total control over football operations is something Pegula regrets. Even with all the success. Yikes! I think we are damn lucky he found McDermott, who brought in Beane. I just hope like heck that both are never fired at the same time, otherwise I’d be very scared who he’d hire to replace them. Who did? Terry? Nope. He fired Marrone when he made demands, about coaches I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 1 hour ago, zow2 said: They draft children, and hope the kids develop into good NHL players,,, but it's not always the case. And these kids have no real idea what it takes to make the playoffs game in and game out. I personally think the Sabres need to spend on a head coach who's been there and done it (like the Rangers hired Laviolette this season)....and infuse the roster with some experienced solid players who have playoff experience. Edited 1 hour ago by zow2 We have had plenty of players who were capable of getting the job done during the drought. We had ROR, left the Sabres, went to St. Louis, won a Cup AND THE FRIGGING CONN SMYTHE! Eichel moves to LV; wins a Cup as the 1C on their team. Reinhart goes to FL, gets to Cup finals on a great team, and nets 50 goals this season. Still on the team are ELITE talents like Dahlin (as good of a young D-man as there is in the game), Power (who is nowhere CLOSE to his ceiling and still is coming off a monster season), and Tage Thompson (who I think we will find out in a few days played with some type of injury for much of the year). We have and have had the talent. I haven't even mentioned guys like Tuch who is a solid, fast, talented, BIG, hockey player. Goaltending was finally GOOD this past season, and we look good for next year sharing the net between 6K and Levi. What is the one common denominator over the 13 years? PEGULA. OF COURSE IT IS. Whenever a franchise goes this bad for this long, it's ALWAYS the ownership. You would think Buffalo sports fans would be aware of this, seeing as we went through EXACTLY the same thing with the Bills for @ 20 years with Ralph. There was a LONG stretch of time where the Bills were garbage, were going to remain garbage, and nothing anyone did would change the situation substantially until RALPH DIED. I truly feel we are in a similar situation now; we need Pegula to sell the Sabres and focus on the Bills. It is, by far, the #1 way to move this franchise forward, quickly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 47 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: I think the main thing Pegula is doing wrong is that he absolutely refuses to hire anyone with actual NHL experience in their job and then allow them to simply do their job. He has not hired a single GM with any experience, and only 1 coach with any experience (Bylsma), who he quickly fired because the players wanted him to. I feel like he keeps trying to be the “smartest guy in the room”, hiring these inexperienced coaches and GMs. I think he wants to find a young coach that can be around for many years, which sounds good in theory but it rarely happens in the NHL. I mean, Granato is the 6th longest tenured coach in the NHL right now. NHL coaches are hired to be fired. He also seems to value communication with ownership over actually being good at your job. I guess that’s why talks fell apart with Jim Rutherford. Imagine if they had hired him to be president of hockey ops years ago when they had discussions with him. Look how quickly he’s turned around Vancouver. I think with the Bills he got lucky. If it were up to Pegula alone, Whaley would probably still be GM. He wanted to keep Marrone. He hired Rex freaking Ryan (though I give him credit for firing him so quickly). They lucked into McDermott and Beane. It was reported that to hire McDermott/Beane, Pegula had to agree to give them total control of football operations. And it was also reported a couple years ago that the decision to give them total control over football operations is something Pegula regrets. Even with all the success. Yikes! I think we are damn lucky he found McDermott, who brought in Beane. I just hope like heck that both are never fired at the same time, otherwise I’d be very scared who he’d hire to replace them. When we let Mike Peca get away from the organization a while ago, I knew things were even worse over there than I thought. We are not operating as a "full service," "real," "professional" hockey team. We just aren't. The Sabres the pet project/hobby of a laissez-faire owner who has made it very clear over time that he is BEYOND CLUELESS when it comes to sports, and in particular, sports organization/management. Notice he has actually shown up at the last couple Sabres games, after he took a lot of heat for NEVER appearing at a game ALL YEAR. He is NOT looking to win a Cup. He is looking to avoid losing money with a business that loses a lot of money every year. He also wants to be the guy in charge and have direct impact over hockey decisions. As long as he is on the top of the pyramid, we will be a joke show. It's so bad now, good luck attracting quality people to the organization. Will be very hard to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 (edited) 13 hours ago, Doc said: What do you think ownership is doing wrong? I mean, they bought the Bills and within their 3rd full season of ownership got their HC and GM and the team was finally back in the playoffs after 17 seasons. And hockey is Terry's first love. I mean the team was very successful under Golisano who was cheap and didn't care about hockey, other than wanting to prevent the Sabres from leaving Buffalo. I could probably write 100 pages on this topic. Quick summary. The NFL and NHL are very different. NFL is very coach-centric, and the program kind of falls in line with the coach and they get a few years. If they hit on the QB, and the coach has a decent head on his shoulders, you get what the Bills have. I think McDermott and Beane are strong enough personalities where they do what they think is right, listen to Terry, and easily convince him that their path is correct. The NHL is much more nuanced. You cannot clear the cap and rebuild in 2 years like the NFL. There are extensive international scouting and development requirements and seeds need to be planted years in advance. Coaches are the lowest man on the totem pole, and are thrown away with the trash for a kick in the butt the minute things aren't going right. There is an intricate balance and chemistry with an NHL team that cannot be achieved by looking at statistics. The rot from the Sabres actually comes from the ownership groups that came before Pegula. Rigas (the NHL), and Golisano eroded the franchise and its reputation in the hockey/NHL community. Things got very stale and incestuous under Regier and Ruff. Pegula came on and enabled that to continue. He thought just adding monitary resources would propel the Sabres to the top. All it did was magnify and compound the problems. Since then, Pegula has groped around, thinking he (and Kim when she was president) are the smartest people in the building. They have failed to bring in anyone with any kind of credibility and experience from the outside. The entire league has passed the Sabres by and lapped them 3x. Their image in the hockey world has gotten worse through players' inability to succeed here, and things like the treatment of Eichel. Firing a GM and hiring a nobody with the purpose of firing all the scouts and hockey personnel is also a terrible look. For 20 years, this team has needed someone with credibility to restore the image of this once great NHL franchise. The thing needs to be completely re-built from the top down with the guidance of someone with extensive experience and rolodex. Edited April 11 by May Day 10 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 16 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: When we let Mike Peca get away from the organization a while ago, I knew things were even worse over there than I thought. We are not operating as a "full service," "real," "professional" hockey team. We just aren't. The Sabres the pet project/hobby of a laissez-faire owner who has made it very clear over time that he is BEYOND CLUELESS when it comes to sports, and in particular, sports organization/management. Notice he has actually shown up at the last couple Sabres games, after he took a lot of heat for NEVER appearing at a game ALL YEAR. He is NOT looking to win a Cup. He is looking to avoid losing money with a business that loses a lot of money every year. He also wants to be the guy in charge and have direct impact over hockey decisions. As long as he is on the top of the pyramid, we will be a joke show. It's so bad now, good luck attracting quality people to the organization. Will be very hard to do. He should probably sell then if they are losing money. He can just keep the Bills who are a cash cow for him and his family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 I am not so sure the Sabres lose money. The NHL is setting revenue records, and Pegula just raked in 2 shares of the expansion fee. They also have a small front office and one of the lowest payrolls in the league. Also factor in that he bought the franchise for $189 Million and it is now worth about $1 Billion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 1 hour ago, Nextmanup said: What is the one common denominator over the 13 years? PEGULA. OF COURSE IT IS. Whenever a franchise goes this bad for this long, it's ALWAYS the ownership. You would think Buffalo sports fans would be aware of this, seeing as we went through EXACTLY the same thing with the Bills for @ 20 years with Ralph. There was a LONG stretch of time where the Bills were garbage, were going to remain garbage, and nothing anyone did would change the situation substantially until RALPH DIED. I truly feel we are in a similar situation now; we need Pegula to sell the Sabres and focus on the Bills. It is, by far, the #1 way to move this franchise forward, quickly. I agree and have been saying for at least 3 years,, SELL THE TEAM Terry! I really have no idea why he would not want to divest the Sabres...they are a professional embarrassment for his owership legacy and the arena needs massive upgrading which is expensive. On the flip side, I know someone in WNY who is a big wig in the community and he has cautioned me to be careful what you wish for. If Terry does decide to sell, there's a very real possibility a new buyer relocates the team to another city. Terry will not do that as long as he owns them. So do we want disappointing hockey every year? or possibly no hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 2 hours ago, Doc said: Who did? Terry? Nope. He fired Marrone when he made demands, about coaches I believe. Marrone opted out of his contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 27 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: Marrone opted out of his contract. Yes because Terry told him to pound sand with his demands. Took the $1M buyout and ran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 1 hour ago, Doc said: Yes because Terry told him to pound sand with his demands. Took the $1M buyout and ran. Yes, that’s true. But he wasn’t fired as you claimed. And Pegula wanted to keep him. He just wasn’t willing to give extensions out since Marrone still had 2yrs on his contract. So I don’t really feel like anything I said was untrue. Do you think Pegula has done an overall good job hiring people in his time owning the Bills and Sabres? I’d say he did great hiring McDermott, and I credit McDermott more for Beane than Pegula. Otherwise I would say it’s been mostly bad hires and missses between the Sabres hockey and business side + the Bills business side (the football ops hires have been mostly Beane & McDermott). I did like how he was willing to swing for the fences early on in his ownership (like trying to hire Babcock). Those days seem gone now. I’d absolutely love to eat my words though, like if they threw a pile of money at Rod Brind’amor this offseason! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 (edited) 5 hours ago, May Day 10 said: I could probably write 100 pages on this topic. Quick summary. The NFL and NHL are very different. NFL is very coach-centric, and the program kind of falls in line with the coach and they get a few years. If they hit on the QB, and the coach has a decent head on his shoulders, you get what the Bills have. I think McDermott and Beane are strong enough personalities where they do what they think is right, listen to Terry, and easily convince him that their path is correct. The NHL is much more nuanced. You cannot clear the cap and rebuild in 2 years like the NFL. There are extensive international scouting and development requirements and seeds need to be planted years in advance. Coaches are the lowest man on the totem pole, and are thrown away with the trash for a kick in the butt the minute things aren't going right. There is an intricate balance and chemistry with an NHL team that cannot be achieved by looking at statistics. The rot from the Sabres actually comes from the ownership groups that came before Pegula. Rigas (the NHL), and Golisano eroded the franchise and its reputation in the hockey/NHL community. Things got very stale and incestuous under Regier and Ruff. Pegula came on and enabled that to continue. He thought just adding monitary resources would propel the Sabres to the top. All it did was magnify and compound the problems. Since then, Pegula has groped around, thinking he (and Kim when she was president) are the smartest people in the building. They have failed to bring in anyone with any kind of credibility and experience from the outside. The entire league has passed the Sabres by and lapped them 3x. Their image in the hockey world has gotten worse through players' inability to succeed here, and things like the treatment of Eichel. Firing a GM and hiring a nobody with the purpose of firing all the scouts and hockey personnel is also a terrible look. For 20 years, this team has needed someone with credibility to restore the image of this once great NHL franchise. The thing needs to be completely re-built from the top down with the guidance of someone with extensive experience and rolodex. You had me until: “treatment of Eichole”. That guy is a mass hole punk from the word go and deserved less than the treatment he got. Also, you left out Tim Murray….the worst GM in the history of professional sports. Edited April 11 by 4merper4mer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 (edited) I never liked eichel either It's undeniable that the nhlpa took note of the way the sabres wouldn't allow him to get the procedure he wanted, and also how they handled the situation publicly Also looks worse when eichel (like oreilly) gets set free and wins a cup. NHLPA members will always see things from the players' perspective. Edited April 11 by May Day 10 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 Terry should kiss Lafontaines ass and bring him back as president. Bring lindy back for one year as Peca as HC in waiting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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