The Walls be Closing

[aristocrat]

16 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

My mistake.

 

You believe Covid killed millions.

 

Do you think it's a bioweapon sent to kill Americans because of how much damage Trump did to China, or am I confusing you with another poster?

 

it was created in a lab and yes i think there is a possibility it was used as a bioweapon. Maybe it started as a way for the chinese to control their own people and it got out of control or they saw how effective it was and let it loose to the world. This is the Chinese we're talking about. Who have quite the history of treating their own people quite poorly and with total disregard. 

[Kemp]

1 minute ago, aristocrat said:

 

it was created in a lab and yes i think there is a possibility it was used as a bioweapon. Maybe it started as a way for the chinese to control their own people and it got out of control or they saw how effective it was and let it loose to the world. This is the Chinese we're talking about. Who have quite the history of treating their own people quite poorly and with total disregard. 

 

I don't know if it's man-made of from the food market, but if it's man-made, I believe it was an error, not an attempt to kill millions, similar to what almost happened with Ebola in a lab in Reston, Virginia, but it's good to know that you understand that Trump's claim is just the latest in his thousands of lies and delusions.

[Tommy Callahan]

Always believes the state's official narrative.

 

 

[aristocrat]

43 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

I don't know if it's man-made of from the food market, but if it's man-made, I believe it was an error, not an attempt to kill millions, similar to what almost happened with Ebola in a lab in Reston, Virginia, but it's good to know that you understand that Trump's claim is just the latest in his thousands of lies and delusions.

well when you have the cia paying off people to lie about the origins, being called racist for calling it the china virus or even suggesting they created it, fauci lying about  funding the lab among the hundreds of other lies about the virus you tend to invite conspiracies and it’s pretty easy to believe any of them. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

1 hour ago, aristocrat said:

 

it was created in a lab and yes i think there is a possibility it was used as a bioweapon. Maybe it started as a way for the chinese to control their own people and it got out of control or they saw how effective it was and let it loose to the world. This is the Chinese we're talking about. Who have quite the history of treating their own people quite poorly and with total disregard. 

law enforcement follows the money to  find crooks....China's economy is much worse off after covid.  use what little gray matter you have.

41 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

well when you have the cia paying off people to lie about the origins, being called racist for calling it the china virus or even suggesting they created it, fauci lying about  funding the lab among the hundreds of other lies about the virus you tend to invite conspiracies and it’s pretty easy to believe any of them. 

easy.  it's what u fools are all about.  it's actually the hallmark of fascism:  easy "solutions" to complex problems.  and you consistently fail because they're fiction....

Edited September 26, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[Kemp]

44 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

well when you have the cia paying off people to lie about the origins, being called racist for calling it the china virus or even suggesting they created it, fauci lying about  funding the lab among the hundreds of other lies about the virus you tend to invite conspiracies and it’s pretty easy to believe any of them. 

 

And down the rabbit hole I went.

On the CIA, all I could find was an anonymous whistleblower talking to a committee that has already been caught lying when their star witness directly contradicted what the committee claimed the witness said.

 

I don't know what the racist thing is about unless it's about some calling Trump racist.

As to Fauci's lying about gain-of-function, that is at best under dispute.

 

Even now, it’s not clear whether the research funded by EcoHealth in China amounted to gain of function. When the Intercept obtained EcoHealth documents in September, seven of 11 scientists who are virologists or work in adjacent fields told the Intercept that the work appeared to meet NIH’s criteria for gain-of-function research. Obviously, it’s a matter of dispute within the scientific community.

But Cotton claimed NIH admitted that it had funded gain-of-function research. That’s wrong. No such admission appears in the letter, and NIH officials continue to insist that the EcoHealth work using NIH funds did not constitute gain-of-function research.

1 hour ago, Chris farley said:

Always believes the state's official narrative.

 

 

 

Always believe the conspiracies, like windmills are killing whales.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Kemp

[Joe Ferguson forever]

Just now, Kemp said:

 

And down the rabbit hole I went.

On the CIA, all I could find was an anonymous whistleblower talking to a committee that has already been caught lying when their star witness directly contradicted what the committe claimed the witness said.

 

I don't know what the racist thing is about unless it's about some calling Trump racist.

As to Fauci's lying about gain-of-function, that is at best under dispute.

 

Even now, it’s not clear whether the research funded by EcoHealth in China amounted to gain of function. When the Intercept obtained EcoHealth documents in September, seven of 11 scientists who are virologists or work in adjacent fields told the Intercept that the work appeared to meet NIH’s criteria for gain-of-function research. Obviously, it’s a matter of dispute within the scientific community.

But Cotton claimed NIH admitted that it had funded gain-of-function research. That’s wrong. No such admission appears in the letter, and NIH officials continue to insist that the EcoHealth work using NIH funds did not constitute gain-of-function research.

shocking.....the dummies are lying...

[Tommy Callahan]

welp. the walls are still up, and the thread has devolved into the origins of covid.

 

5 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

 it's actually the hallmark of fascism:  easy "solutions" to complex problems

LMAO. the simplest solution is to just parrot what you see in the shadows on wall.  eh

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kemp]

Trump says if he becomes President it will throw America into a Constitutional crisis!!

 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

32 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

welp. the walls are still up, and the thread has devolved into the origins of covid.

 

LMAO. the simplest solution is to just parrot what you see in the shadows on wall.  eh

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you dummies are too funny.

 

You're just mad cuz u didn't make the 3 worst poster list.  on further review, I nominate you as #1 because of the vapid eye rolls....

 

look it up.  great word.  describes u perfectly.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[ChiGoose]

Judge rules Donald Trump defrauded banks, insurers as he built real estate empire

 

"NEW YORK (AP) — A judge has ruled that Donald Trump committed fraud for years while building the real estate empire that catapulted him to fame and the White House.

 

Judge Arthur Engoron, ruling Tuesday in a civil lawsuit brought by New York’s attorney general, found that the former president and his company deceived banks, insurers and others by massively overvaluing his assets and exaggerating his net worth on paperwork used in making deals and securing financing.

 

***

 

Beyond mere bragging about his riches, Trump, his company and key executives repeatedly lied about them on his annual financial statements, reaping rewards such as favorable loan terms and lower insurance premiums, Engoron found.

 

Those tactics crossed a line and violated the law, the judge said, rejecting Trump’s contention that a disclaimer on the financial statements absolved him of any wrongdoing."

[Pokebball]

24 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

Judge rules Donald Trump defrauded banks, insurers as he built real estate empire

 

"NEW YORK (AP) — A judge has ruled that Donald Trump committed fraud for years while building the real estate empire that catapulted him to fame and the White House.

 

Judge Arthur Engoron, ruling Tuesday in a civil lawsuit brought by New York’s attorney general, found that the former president and his company deceived banks, insurers and others by massively overvaluing his assets and exaggerating his net worth on paperwork used in making deals and securing financing.

 

***

 

Beyond mere bragging about his riches, Trump, his company and key executives repeatedly lied about them on his annual financial statements, reaping rewards such as favorable loan terms and lower insurance premiums, Engoron found.

 

Those tactics crossed a line and violated the law, the judge said, rejecting Trump’s contention that a disclaimer on the financial statements absolved him of any wrongdoing."

Don't know the details, but weren't the value of his assets (mostly real estate) supported by appraisals? Who did the appraisals? Were they ordered by the banks? In my experience they normally are?

Edited September 26, 2023 by Pokebball

[Doc]

Boo hoo for them.  I have zero sympathy for banks and insurance companies.

[ChiGoose]

16 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

Don't know the details, but weren't the value of his assets (mostly real estate) supported by appraisals? Who did the appraisals? Were they ordered by the banks? In my experience they normally are?

 

Generally, if you're submitting a false financial document, you wouldn't want to sign it with the language:

 

"Donald J. Trump is responsible for the preparation and fair presentation of the financial statement in accordance with accounting principles generally accepted in the United States of America and for designing, implementing, and maintaining internal control relevant to the preparation and fair presentation of financial statement."

(Page 6 of ruling)

[Pokebball]

Just now, ChiGoose said:

 

Generally, if you're submitting a false financial document, you wouldn't want to sign it with the language:

 

"Donald J. Trump is responsible for the preparation and fair presentation of the financial statement in accordance with accounting principles generally accepted in the United States of America and for designing, implementing, and maintaining internal control relevant to the preparation and fair presentation of financial statement."

(Page 6 of ruling)

Follow up on my question. If the banks ordered the appraisals, and those values were used on the financial statement, wouldn't that be to the best of everyone's knowledge?

 

[Tommy Callahan]

7 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

you dummies are too funny.

 

You're just mad cuz u didn't make the 3 worst poster list.  on further review, I nominate you as #1 because of the vapid eye rolls....

 

look it up.  great word.  describes u perfectly.

Omg.  A bunch of msm parroting trolls made a list.  

 

 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

More details. Dissolution of trump org. He’s destined to lose his criminal NY case and the MAGAs here r already trying to rationalize it. 
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-basically-just-lost-york-203823076.html

14 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

Omg.  A bunch of msm parroting trolls made a list.  

 

 

 

No. A MAGA made a list. I edited it

[Joe Ferguson forever]

Cassidy Hutchinson adds more details in her book. Especially like the part about Meadow’s wife saying all Mark’s suits smell like bonfires and the request to pardon Kimberly Guilfoyle gynecologist 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/26/politics/cassidy-hutchinson-book-trump-white-house-chaos/index.html

[ChiGoose]

1 hour ago, Pokebball said:

Follow up on my question. If the banks ordered the appraisals, and those values were used on the financial statement, wouldn't that be to the best of everyone's knowledge?

 

 

Not necessarily. It appears that discovery has shown multiple claims and filings by the Trump Org that show evidence of blatant falsehoods:

 

"In the defendants' world: rent regulated apartments are worth the same as unregulated apartments; restricted land is worth the same as unrestricted land; restrictions can evaporate into thin air; a disclaimer by one party casting responsibility on another party exonerates the other party's lies..." (Page 10)

 

Imagine you bought your house for $300k. A couple years later, you want to take out a home equity loan so you call up your buddy who is an appraiser. He comes in and says that in just a few short years, your house has increased in value to $900k and you submit that appraisal to the bank to secure the loan. You should know that the appraisal is wrong. You've done no work on the house, there is no drastic change in the market and the houses in your neighborhood since then have sold in the $300k range. When submitting the loan documents, you also signed a document stating that you were personally responsible for the valuation. Even though you didn't do the appraisal yourself, there's a very strong argument that you are committing fraud.

 

Now imagine you run a real estate firm (and therefore should be an expert on valuations) and do this dozens and dozens of time over decades.

 

Relying on a single bad valuation is something that probably won't get you in much trouble. Repeatedly using clearly and obviously incorrect valuations for years and years is going to be a problem.

[BillStime]

Don’t you just feel sorry for the Trumps?

 

 

[aristocrat]

10 hours ago, Kemp said:

 

And down the rabbit hole I went.

On the CIA, all I could find was an anonymous whistleblower talking to a committee that has already been caught lying when their star witness directly contradicted what the committee claimed the witness said.

 

I don't know what the racist thing is about unless it's about some calling Trump racist.

As to Fauci's lying about gain-of-function, that is at best under dispute.

 

Even now, it’s not clear whether the research funded by EcoHealth in China amounted to gain of function. When the Intercept obtained EcoHealth documents in September, seven of 11 scientists who are virologists or work in adjacent fields told the Intercept that the work appeared to meet NIH’s criteria for gain-of-function research. Obviously, it’s a matter of dispute within the scientific community.

But Cotton claimed NIH admitted that it had funded gain-of-function research. That’s wrong. No such admission appears in the letter, and NIH officials continue to insist that the EcoHealth work using NIH funds did not constitute gain-of-function research.

 

Always believe the conspiracies, like windmills are killing whales.

https://x.com/covidselect/status/1706812585050276152?s=46&t=WfwBbfFkRiZZWCMxTdpkOw

[Pokebball]

2 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

 

Not necessarily. It appears that discovery has shown multiple claims and filings by the Trump Org that show evidence of blatant falsehoods:

 

"In the defendantI has' world: rent regulated apartments are worth the same as unregulated apartments; restricted land is worth the same as unrestricted land; restrictions can evaporate into thin air; a disclaimer by one party casting responsibility on another party exonerates the other party's lies..." (Page 10)

 

Imagine you bought your house for $300k. A couple years later, you want to take out a home equity loan so you call up your buddy who is an appraiser. He comes in and says that in just a few short years, your house has increased in value to $900k and you submit that appraisal to the bank to secure the loan. You should know that the appraisal is wrong. You've done no work on the house, there is no drastic change in the market and the houses in your neighborhood since then have sold in the $300k range. When submitting the loan documents, you also signed a document stating that you were personally responsible for the valuation. Even though you didn't do the appraisal yourself, there's a very strong argument that you are committing fraud.

 

Now imagine you run a real estate firm (and therefore should be an expert on valuations) and do this dozens and dozens of time over decades.

 

Relying on a single bad valuation is something that probably won't get you in much trouble. Repeatedly using clearly and obviously incorrect valuations for years and years is going to be a problem.

I haven't seen a bank that will accept an appraisal that isn't on their "approved" appraiser list. Appraisers adjust for regulated vs unregulated and real restrictions. That's their job. I still don't get it?

[ChiGoose]

9 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

I haven't seen a bank that will accept an appraisal that isn't on their "approved" appraiser list. Appraisers adjust for regulated vs unregulated and real restrictions. That's their job. I still don't get it?

 

A bank failing in due diligence is not an excuse for fraud. Repeatedly lying on loan paperwork isn't ok just because you weren't caught at the time.

 

For years, most US banks wouldn't lend to Trump, so he sought out foreign banks. The fact that he managed to sucker someone doesn't mean he's not to blame for the fraud.

[Kemp]

2 hours ago, aristocrat said:

https://x.com/covidselect/status/1706812585050276152?s=46&t=WfwBbfFkRiZZWCMxTdpkOw

 

I read the whole thing.

 

Summarized, they want to investigate allegations.

And that's about it.

Let them investigate and let's see if they do any better than Comer, who so far has failed miserably in his quest and whose allegations have collapsed.

If the investigation unveils what they are seeking, then it will be a whole new ballgame. Until then, it's nothing.

I understand that Trumpers are desperate to find incriminating evidence on anything they feel will help Trump because there's already a mountain of verifiable evidence against Trump.

[Andy1]

Cassidy is yet another insider from the Trump administration who says Trump is a grave threat to the nation if he were elected again. Outside of the nuts like Rudy just about everyone who has worked in his administration says the same thing.
 

MAGA position is they are all just rinos. According to the cult rules, anyone who speaks out must be outcast.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Andy1

[Pokebball]

1 hour ago, ChiGoose said:

 

A bank failing in due diligence is not an excuse for fraud. Repeatedly lying on loan paperwork isn't ok just because you weren't caught at the time.

 

For years, most US banks wouldn't lend to Trump, so he sought out foreign banks. The fact that he managed to sucker someone doesn't mean he's not to blame for the fraud.

Actually a bank failing in it's policy to do due diligence is a failure to it's shareholders. Faulty appraisals is should be on the appraisers. Trump knowingly lying is fraud. Lying about values of his RE is what I'm questioning. You don't know the answer to my questions about appraisals. I don't either. I'm curious.

[BillStime]

 

[ChiGoose]

29 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

Actually a bank failing in it's policy to do due diligence is a failure to it's shareholders. Faulty appraisals is should be on the appraisers. Trump knowingly lying is fraud. Lying about values of his RE is what I'm questioning. You don't know the answer to my questions about appraisals. I don't either. I'm curious.

 

I'm not sure what your question is, to be honest.

 

Whether or not the banks failed in their due diligence, repeatedly lying on loan applications is a crime.

 

In this case, Trump's team tried to place the blame on the appraiser but the judge felt that there was plenty of evidence that the lying was coming from the Trump Org and they were therefore liable.

[John from Riverside]

The only problem that I’ve got with the Cassidy Hudson book is if you’ve got something to say don’t wait and then do a book later get it out there whenever it could actually mean something

 

Like the whole thing with Giuliani supposedly being inappropriate touching where was this whenever it actually happened

[aristocrat]

8 hours ago, Kemp said:

 

I read the whole thing.

 

Summarized, they want to investigate allegations.

And that's about it.

Let them investigate and let's see if they do any better than Comer, who so far has failed miserably in his quest and whose allegations have collapsed.

If the investigation unveils what they are seeking, then it will be a whole new ballgame. Until then, it's nothing.

I understand that Trumpers are desperate to find incriminating evidence on anything they feel will help Trump because there's already a mountain of verifiable evidence against Trump.

Imagine it’s a trump Russia document and you’ll believe it wholeheartedly lol

[Tommy Callahan]

Again, the left is hung up on stories in a book.  

 

NY case is just crazy. started with the narrative he cheated on his taxes.  full blown investigations.  then it pivoted to his company overstated its wealth, IE, paying more taxes than he had to.

 

 

[Kemp]

52 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

Imagine it’s a trump Russia document and you’ll believe it wholeheartedly lol

 

Thanks for admitting I summed it up correctly. 

 

Meanwhile Donnie loses another case filled with proof of his crimes.

 

The Walls Be Closing

8 hours ago, Andy1 said:

Cassidy is yet another insider from the Trump administration who says Trump is a grave threat to the nation if he were elected again. Outside of the nuts like Rudy just about everyone who has worked in his administration says the same thing.
 

MAGA position is they are all just rinos. According to the cult rules, anyone who speaks out must be outcast.

 

Sounds like Scientology. 

[Tommy Callahan]

Its Wednesday September 27th and the walls are still standing.

 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

https://dnyuz.com/2023/09/27/ruling-against-trump-cuts-to-the-heart-of-his-identity/

 

fake, phony, fraud, cheat, liar, cult leader.

 

By effectively branding him a cheat, the decision in the civil proceeding by Justice Arthur F. Engoron undermined Mr. Trump’s relentlessly promoted narrative of himself as a master of the business world, the persona that he used to enmesh himself in the fabric of popular culture and that eventually give him the stature and resources to reach the White House.

The ruling was the latest remarkable development to test the resilience of Mr. Trump’s appeal as he seeks to win election again despite the weight of evidence against him in cases spanning his years as a New York developer, his 2016 campaign, his efforts to overturn his 2020 election loss and his handling of national security secrets after leaving office.

The federal case accusing him of plotting to retain power despite his defeat at the polls three years ago paints him as a threat to democracy, as does a similar prosecution in Georgia. The classified documents case portrays him as willing to obstruct justice to cover up a reckless disregard for the laws that govern the handling of such documents. A New York prosecution stemming from hush-money payments to a porn star in the closing stages of the 2016 election sets out evidence of the kind of political skulduggery he professes to want to eradicate from Washington.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[Tommy Callahan]

If the NYT says so.

 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

20 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

If the NYT says so.

 

 

so it's the NYT 's fault he's a liar, cheat and sexual abuser and found in separate court rulings to be each of those?

 

btw, the AP agrees but you know, to MAGA's they're all the liars and trump is the second coming...

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-letitia-james-fraud-lawsuit-1569245a9284427117b8d3ba5da74249

 

Engoron found that Trump consistently overvalued Mar-a-Lago, inflating its value on one financial statement by as much as 2,300%. The judge also rebuked Trump for lying about the size of his Manhattan apartment. Trump claimed his three-story Trump Tower penthouse was nearly three times its actual size, valuing it at $327 million. 

“A discrepancy of this order of magnitude, by a real estate developer sizing up his own living space of decades, can only be considered fraud,” Engoron wrote.

On X in the wake of the ruling, Eric Trump insisted his father’s claims about Mar-a-Lago were correct, writing that the Palm Beach estate is “speculated to be worth well over a billion dollars making it arguably the most valuable residential property in the country.” He called the ruling and the lawsuit “an attempt to destroy my father and kick him out of New York.”

Under the ruling, limited liability companies that control some of Trump’s key properties, such as 40 Wall Street, will be dissolved and authority over how to run them handed over to a receiver. Trump would lose his authority over whom to hire or fire, whom to rent office space to, and other key decisions.

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[John from Riverside]

41 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

Thanks for admitting I summed it up correctly. 

 

Meanwhile Donnie loses another case filled with proof of his crimes.

 

The Walls Be Closing

 

Sounds like Scientology. 

I actually know Scientologists
 

They look like choir boys compared to trumps group

[aristocrat]

44 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

Thanks for admitting I summed it up correctly. 

 

Meanwhile Donnie loses another case filled with proof of his crimes.

 

The Walls Be Closing

 

Sounds like Scientology. 

***** the banks. They will do anything to screw you over. 08 crisis and nobody went to jail while millions lost homes. You on their side? That’s the wrong side

[Joe Ferguson forever]

20 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

***** the banks. They will do anything to screw you over. 08 crisis and nobody went to jail while millions lost homes. You on their side? That’s the wrong side

so the banks caused trump to be a fraud?  did you lose your home?  Did you take out a mortgage you couldn't afford?  cuz lots of foreclosures were on high risk mortgages that I agree, should not have been made by the banks.   But that doesn't absolve the borrowers and it certainly doesn't absolve trump.  When will you MAGA's learn that 2 wrongs don't make a right?  Didn't your parents teach you that?

[Joe Ferguson forever]

read what the very conservative WSJ thinks about a 2nd trump term.  but MAGA's are trying to redefine "conservative" around a fraud

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-truth-social-mark-milley-2024-election-joe-biden-a05814d4?mod=opinion_lead_pos3