Biden, A Good American President, Pilfers Classified Docs

[sherpa]

5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

So here’s my question: If the FBI keeps raiding everyone’s offices and homes looking for ‘stolen’ documents, how do they know that they’re missing? And for how long did they know? Do the National Archive nitwits have such a backlog of missing documents that it takes them literally YEARS  to figure out they’re missing? If so, this is yet another federal agency that needs to be defunded. 

 

I'm guessing most of these are probably briefing documents.

The National Archives would not be involved.

 

We used to get many classified documents every day. National Archives was never involved, and they were never logged.

We'd read them and destroy them. 

[B-Man]

 

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, sherpa said:

 

I'm guessing most of these are probably briefing documents.

The National Archives would not be involved.

 

We used to get many classified documents every day. National Archives was never involved, and they were never logged.

We'd read them and destroy them. 

I’m guessing you’re right and that the permanent bureaucracy is positively giddy over yet another fake narrative that keeps the American people at each other’s throats. Rinse and repeat! 

[Doc]

9 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

And Republicans say the same about Dems. And thus back and forth it goes. None of these people are the least bit concerned about the content of the documents or how they came to be in the possession of these elected officials. 

 

I disagree.  I think people are very concerned about the contents of the documents.  But it's been almost 6 months since the FBI raided MAL and not a word about the contents, much less the "nuclear secrets" he was purported to have despite an Admin desperate to nail him any way they can.  On the flip side, do you think we'll get a true picture of the stuff Joke was keeping and who had access to it in his garage, that think tank, etc.?

[BillsFanNC]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I disagree.  I think people are very concerned about the contents of the documents.  But it's been almost 6 months since the FBI raided MAL and not a word about the contents, much less the "nuclear secrets" he was purported to have despite an Admin desperate to nail him any way they can.  On the flip side, do you think we'll get a true picture of the stuff Joke was keeping and who had access to it in his garage, that think tank, etc.?

 

The "nuclear secrets" leaked within hours....

 

Somehow the Biden doc details are locked up air tight.

 

Who is shocked?

[SoCal Deek]

9 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I disagree.  I think people are very concerned about the contents of the documents.  But it's been almost 6 months since the FBI raided MAL and not a word about the contents, much less the "nuclear secrets" he was purported to have despite an Admin desperate to nail him any way they can.  On the flip side, do you think we'll get a true picture of the stuff Joke was keeping and who had access to it in his garage, that think tank, etc.?

There were no nuclear secrets and everyone knows it. That was a ridiculous leak. The raid served its purpose. Trump is further bloodied. Now as to Biden, nobody in the deep state cares about the content. Once again, the ‘discovery’ served its purpose. He has been made to look feeble. His time is over. Now…we all wait to see who they pick as the next puppet king. 

[ChiGoose]

6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

There were no nuclear secrets and everyone knows it. That was a ridiculous leak. The raid served its purpose. Trump is further bloodied. Now as to Biden, nobody in the deep state cares about the content. Once again, the ‘discovery’ served its purpose. He has been made to look feeble. His time is over. Now…we all wait to see who they pick as the next puppet king. 

Ah, the good old “Deep State” theory. Can’t possibly be that Trump wanted to take documents while Biden and Pence (or their staff) were careless. 
 

Nope, there’s a secret cabal that’s so incredibly powerful that they control everything. Yep, that makes more sense than the simplest explanations that all of the evidence already points to. 

[Irv]

What a mess.  

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

Ah, the good old “Deep State” theory. Can’t possibly be that Trump wanted to take documents while Biden and Pence (or their staff) were careless. 
 

Nope, there’s a secret cabal that’s so incredibly powerful that they control everything. Yep, that makes more sense than the simplest explanations that all of the evidence already points to. 

Sure! Keep right on believing that Biden’s in charge. I’m sure he is. The Deep State is the term used for the permanent bureaucracy class…not some secret society.

[JDHillFan]

9 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

Ah, the good old “Deep State” theory. Can’t possibly be that Trump wanted to take documents while Biden and Pence (or their staff) were careless. 
 

Nope, there’s a secret cabal that’s so incredibly powerful that they control everything. Yep, that makes more sense than the simplest explanations that all of the evidence already points to. 

You wouldn’t answer this previously - did the classified documents from Biden’s time as a senator just accidentally leave the SCIF with him? Stuck to his shoe? Fell in his pocket? Surely you have a logical explanation that absolves this fine public servant. 
 

Accidental spillage!! 

[ChiGoose]

Just now, JDHillFan said:

You wouldn’t answer this previously - did the classified documents from Biden’s time as a senator just accidentally leave the SCIF with him? Stuck to his shoe? Fell in his pocket? Surely you have a logical explanation that absolves this fine public servant. 
 

Accidental spillage!! 

I don’t know. That’s what you have an investigation for. 
 

Pence says that his documents were inadvertently packed with his stuff. Maybe it’s the same with Biden. Maybe it’s not. We’ll see. 

 

Clearly the controls around classified documents aren’t effective. 

11 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Sure! Keep right on believing that Biden’s in charge. I’m sure he is. The Deep State is the term used for the permanent bureaucracy class…not some secret society.

So it’s your contention that the bureaucracy is controlling everything and Biden isn’t actually president? Who is in charge of the bureaucracy? Who is making those decisions?

[rm -rf /*]

On 1/9/2023 at 7:51 PM, ChiGoose said:

Intent. You’re missing intent.

 

You mean withholding the information prior to the midterms?  

[JDHillFan]

1 minute ago, ChiGoose said:

I don’t know. That’s what you have an investigation for. 
 

Pence says that his documents were inadvertently packed with his stuff. Maybe it’s the same with Biden. Maybe it’s not. We’ll see. 

 

Clearly the controls around classified documents aren’t effective. 

Occam’s Razor - it takes a willful act to remove classified docs from a SCIF and a SCIF is where a congressperson would be reviewing classified documents.
You being the foremost practitioner of logic on this board, I figured you would know that. 

[ChiGoose]

3 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

Occam’s Razor - it takes a willful act to remove classified docs from a SCIF and a SCIF is where a congressperson would be reviewing classified documents.
You being the foremost practitioner of logic on this board, I figured you would know that. 

Then why suddenly decide to tell on yourself? And then conduct a search and turn over more documents. 
 

If this has been intentional and he’d been getting away with it for years, why would he tell the Feds about it?

5 minutes ago, rm -rf /* said:

 

You mean withholding the information prior to the midterms?  

He informed the government immediately. Same day they were discovered, I believe. 

[JDHillFan]

8 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

Then why suddenly decide to tell on yourself? And then conduct a search and turn over more documents. 
 

If this has been intentional and he’d been getting away with it for years, why would he tell the Feds about it?

He informed the government immediately. Same day they were discovered, I believe. 

I guess logic and common sense tells us that this fine public servant, who’s made a career of bullsh*ting that has lasted several decades, decided after many years to just come clean because it was the right thing to do. No external forces at play whatsoever. 
 

If you are going to paint yourself as the voice of reason please at least shoot for some consistency across ideological lines. You are diminishing your own standing as an expert here. 

[BillsFanNC]

Buden intent? To share classified intelligence with his son in order to sell influence in foreign nations and enrich Biden Inc.

 

There's far more evidence of that intent than whatever exists for Trump....except in the fantasies of those who, like chigoose, desperately want all alleged Trump malfeasance to be true.

[BillStime]

24 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

Buden intent? To share classified intelligence with his son in order to sell influence in foreign nations and enrich Biden Inc.

 

There's far more evidence of that intent than whatever exists for Trump....except in the fantasies of those who, like chigoose, desperately want all alleged Trump malfeasance to be true.

What would DR do without conspiracy?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ChiGoose]

1 hour ago, JDHillFan said:

I guess logic and common sense tells us that this fine public servant, who’s made a career of bullsh*ting that has lasted several decades, decided after many years to just come clean because it was the right thing to do. No external forces at play whatsoever. 
 

If you are going to paint yourself as the voice of reason please at least shoot for some consistency across ideological lines. You are diminishing your own standing as an expert here. 

I’m asking honestly, what’s your theory of the case here? Why go to the feds if this was intentional and they weren’t already aware. 
 

My theory is simply that whoever packed up his offices grabbed documents they shouldn’t have. Seems like that’s the case with Pence. I think Jimmy Carter walked away with government docs accidentally too. 
 

If Biden took them intentionally and they can prove that, he should be indicted. Barring a change in facts, I just don’t see that as the likely outcome here. Biden and Pence appear to be in the same bucket with what we know at this stage. 

[JDHillFan]

4 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

I’m asking honestly, what’s your theory of the case here? Why go to the feds if this was intentional and they weren’t already aware. 
 

My theory is simply that whoever packed up his offices grabbed documents they shouldn’t have. Seems like that’s the case with Pence. I think Jimmy Carter walked away with government docs accidentally too. 
 

If Biden took them intentionally and they can prove that, he should be indicted. Barring a change in facts, I just don’t see that as the likely outcome here. Biden and Pence appear to be in the same bucket with what we know at this stage. 

Focus for a moment on the documents he has had since his time as a senator. They didn’t accidentally get packed up. He took them. That’s the only way to get them out of a SCIF. IF HE’S WILLING TO DO THAT AS A SENATOR, DO YOU THINK HE WOULD BE MORE RESERVED AS A VICE PRESIDENT OR PRESIDENT? OR DOES LOGIC TELL YOU THAT HE MIGHT THINK HE COULD GET AWAY WITH MORE THAN EVER BEFORE.

 

apologies for the all caps. Unintentional and I do not wish to correct it. Maybe that’s what happened to Biden Trump and Pence. Unintentional and they just did not wish to correct it until many many years later in Biden’s case and never in trumps case.

[ChiGoose]

11 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

Focus for a moment on the documents he has had since his time as a senator. They didn’t accidentally get packed up. He took them. That’s the only way to get them out of a SCIF. IF HE’S WILLING TO DO THAT AS A SENATOR, DO YOU THINK HE WOULD BE MORE RESERVED AS A VICE PRESIDENT OR PRESIDENT? OR DOES LOGIC TELL YOU THAT HE MIGHT THINK HE COULD GET AWAY WITH MORE THAN EVER BEFORE.

 

apologies for the all caps. Unintentional and I do not wish to correct it. Maybe that’s what happened to Biden Trump and Pence. Unintentional and they just did not wish to correct it until many many years later in Biden’s case and never in trumps case.

Only top secret documents require a SCIF. Secret and confidential documents can be viewed outside of a SCIF. So the docs that look really bad for Biden are the ten with top secret classification. Lower classified documents (apparently) can get picked up with non-classified documents unintentional. 
 

Do you think Pence took the documents intentionally?

[JDHillFan]

18 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

Only top secret documents require a SCIF. Secret and confidential documents can be viewed outside of a SCIF. So the docs that look really bad for Biden are the ten with top secret classification. Lower classified documents (apparently) can get picked up with non-classified documents unintentional. 
 

Do you think Pence took the documents intentionally?

Intentionally, yes. With malicious intent, very unlikely. My opinion. 
 

You, as the gatekeeper of logic and common sense, want to believe that a 50+ year creature of Washington, one who has told easily disproved tall tales every step of the way, is a victim and is being done wrong by incompetent staff and is now a stand-up guy for immediately reporting himself after several years of not doing so. In drips and drabs, no less. 
 

To use one of your terms, that’s wish-casting. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by JDHillFan

[reddogblitz]

2 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

Then why suddenly decide to tell on yourself? And then conduct a search and turn over more documents. 
 

If this has been intentional and he’d been getting away with it for years, why would he tell the Feds about it?

 

Why were thousand dollar an hour lawyers pilfering through his office when they found the classified documents?  What were they looking for?   To me that's the big question that to my knowledge has not been asked.

[ChiGoose]

5 hours ago, JDHillFan said:

Intentionally, yes. With malicious intent, very unlikely. My opinion. 
 

You, as the gatekeeper of logic and common sense, want to believe that a 50+ year creature of Washington, one who has told easily disproved tall tales every step of the way, is a victim and is being done wrong by incompetent staff and is now a stand-up guy for immediately reporting himself after several years of not doing so. In drips and drabs, no less. 
 

To use one of your terms, that’s wish-casting. 

Look, I don’t particularly care for Biden. He’s… fine. If he took the documents intentionally, then he should be prosecuted.

 

But I’m looking at the fact that apparently every government employee just walks out of the building with classified documents; and the fact that Biden volunteered that he had docs when nobody knew he did, had his people do a search and invited the feds to do a search, and I have a bit of trouble assuming he took them on purpose. 
 

Again, if he did, he should be indicted. I’m glad the special counsel investigating this is a strong conservative. I feel like he’ll do everything he can to get Biden. If he does, Biden probably deserves it. If he doesn’t, then it’s almost certainly accidental spillage.
 

We’ll see what happens but I still feel like Biden and Pence are going to be in the clear. 

[reddogblitz]

I'm driving down the road and get pulled over by a cop.  When I reach into my glove compartment to get my license and registration, an open bottle of Jack Black falls out.  It was left there by my buddy who I let use my car to go on a Taco Bell run the night before. I didn't put it there and didn't even know it was there. Think the cop will believe me? Think it will matter?  I'm getting a citation or going to jail. How is this different besides it's a powerful special person as opposed to a shmuck like me?

[ChiGoose]

9 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

I'm driving down the road and get pulled over by a cop.  When I reach into my glove compartment to get my license and registration, an open bottle of Jack Black falls out.  It was left there by my buddy who I let use my car to go on a Taco Bell run the night before. I didn't put it there and didn't even know it was there. Think the cop will believe me? Think it will matter?  I'm getting a citation or going to jail. How is this different besides it's a powerful special person as opposed to a shmuck like me?

If you go to jail in that scenario, you have hired a terrible attorney. 

[JDHillFan]

58 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

then it’s almost certainly accidental spillage.

That just happened repeatedly to this unwitting dupe over many years. 
 

At least now when you try to lecture everyone on the use of logic and common sense no one needs to give you any credence. 

[rm -rf /*]

11 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

He informed the government immediately. Same day they were discovered, I believe. 

 

You mean that same doj that leaks everything under the sun whenever it fits a narrative?  

 

Sheep get slaughtered my friend.  Open your eyes.

[Irv]

14 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

I don’t know. That’s what you have an investigation for. 
 

Pence says that his documents were inadvertently packed with his stuff. Maybe it’s the same with Biden. Maybe it’s not. We’ll see. 

 

Clearly the controls around classified documents aren’t effective. 

So it’s your contention that the bureaucracy is controlling everything and Biden isn’t actually president? Who is in charge of the bureaucracy? Who is making those decisions?

 

When someone in an Easter Bunny outfit stops you from answering sensitive questions - you are not in charge.  What a mess!

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Irv

[B-Man]

STAGED.

 

 

 

Why isn't CNN with them ?

 

 

😎

[ChiGoose]

6 hours ago, JDHillFan said:

That just happened repeatedly to this unwitting dupe over many years. 
 

At least now when you try to lecture everyone on the use of logic and common sense no one needs to give you any credence. 

You still haven’t answered my question:

 

If Biden did this intentionally and had been getting away with it for years, why would he suddenly turn himself in?

 

Also, do you believe Pence took the documents intentionally?

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, ChiGoose said:

You still haven’t answered my question:

 

If Biden did this intentionally and had been getting away with it for years, why would he suddenly turn himself in?

 

Also, do you believe Pence took the documents intentionally?

Intentionally? Not sure that's really the problem here...but whatever.

[ChiGoose]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

Intentionally? Not sure that's really the problem here...but whatever.

It’s literally the reason why someone does or doesn’t get charged. It’s why Biden and Pence will not be indicted but Trump probably will be. 

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, ChiGoose said:

It’s literally the reason why someone does or doesn’t get charged. It’s why Biden and Pence will not be indicted but Trump probably will be. 

Sure it is. Keep telling yourself that. If you use it three times in a sentence, it'll become true.

[JDHillFan]

Just now, ChiGoose said:

You still haven’t answered my question:

 

If Biden did this intentionally and had been getting away with it for years, why would he suddenly turn himself in?

 

Also, do you believe Pence took the documents intentionally?

I answered your second question. Attention to detail is important for someone that paints themselves as a purveyor of logic beyond that of the common man. Please read more carefully going forward. 
 

To the first question I don’t know. I do know that guilty individuals sometimes try to ease their situations by cooperating and pleading rather than obfuscating. You seem to feel covering up is the only way forward for someone in his position   The guy has a lifelong record of telling lies. To me, that makes him untrustworthy. To you, that makes him…fine. 
 

 

[ChiGoose]

Just now, JDHillFan said:

I answered your second question. Attention to detail is important for someone that paints themselves as a purveyor of logic beyond that of the common man. Please read more carefully going forward. 
 

To the first question I don’t know. I do know that guilty individuals sometimes try to ease their situations by cooperating and pleading rather than obfuscating. You seem to feel covering up is the only way forward for someone in his position   The guy has a lifelong record of telling lies. To me, that makes him untrustworthy. To you, that makes him…fine. 
 

 

So you think Pence should be indicted then?

 

So Biden took the documents intentionally and then suddenly decided he wanted to hurt himself politically by telling on himself? This is what we are going with as the most logical explanation?

[JDHillFan]

Just now, ChiGoose said:

So you think Pence should be indicted then?

 

So Biden took the documents intentionally and then suddenly decided he wanted to hurt himself politically by telling on himself? This is what we are going with as the most logical explanation?

No. A guy with a lifelong record of lies is now a paragon of virtue. That’s the most logical explanation. He’s…fine. Carry on. 
 

[ChiGoose]

Just now, JDHillFan said:

No. A guy with a lifelong record of lies is now a paragon of virtue. That’s the most logical explanation. He’s…fine. Carry on. 
 

Don’t put words in my mouth just because you can’t explain your own theory of the case. 

[JDHillFan]

Just now, ChiGoose said:

Don’t put words in my mouth just because you can’t explain your own theory of the case. 

My theory is based on logic and common sense. He took the documents. They were not accidentally spilled by staffers. You claim to be big on facts. Is there a single fact to indicate staffers are at fault?

[BillsFanNC]

21 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

My theory is based on logic and common sense. He took the documents. They were not accidentally spilled by staffers. You claim to be big on facts. Is there a single fact to indicate staffers are at fault?

 

The media have said that with Biden it's different.  That's all that matters. 

 

Backfill the media marching orders with a hand waving narrative.

 

There's your facts.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

2 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

You still haven’t answered my question:

 

If Biden did this intentionally and had been getting away with it for years, why would he suddenly turn himself in?

 

Also, do you believe Pence took the documents intentionally?

It seems like an awful heavy lift to take limited information and speculate as to the potential criminal activity of another, especially given the complicating factor that Washington, DC is like no other place on earth.  Who knows what complaints may have been lodged against Biden previously, who might be squeezing him to step forward, or what complicating factors might enter into this?  

 

It's especially difficult to project if you are a person who follows normal societal rules, pay taxes on time, puts in an honest day's work and avoids HR issues and the appearance of impropriety, that sort of thing.  What we know is that Joe Biden isn't that guy--he says horribly inappropriate things, has been credibly accused of assault and groping, worked the Ukranian's over when his son had deep ties to the government, and seems to like getting a piece of the actions when folks use his name for their gain.  

 

The bigger question is why a guy would consistently and regularly completely disregard the laws of the land and tenets of common sense to treat national security issues like a half-used can of Turtle Wax.  To see it happen over several decades, presumably with different administrative/legal staff over the years, certainly leads to the conclusion that he simply didn't think the rules that he bloviated about applied to him.