We have the power to right some wrongs.

[peterpan]

How many times have you thought to yourself or heard someone say “why doesn’t someone DO SOMETHING!?!?”  Well this November 8th, you can do that something!!

 

this story hs not gotten much attention and I have only seen it reported in the NYPost.  But this cashless bail MUST END.  
 

just watch this viscous beating of this woman and try to justify this guy walking free the same day!!! He then comes back and murders a mother of 3.

 

https://nypost.com/2022/11/01/ny-man-sprung-on-no-bail-in-facebook-posted-beating-guns-down-wife-cops/

 

Vote how you want for the national races, but please vote for Lee Zeldin for Governor.   this is much too serious an issue for partisanship. 

[Tiberius]

Don't tell this to the people that always say Trump is "Innocent until proven guilty." 

 

He has top secret documents that could compromise the safety of American democracy. But he is free. 

[ChiGoose]

Eliminating cashless bail =/= eliminating bail

 

It just means that whether or not you’re in pretrial detention is dependent on your danger to the community or flight risk and not how much money you have. 

[Motorin']

3 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

Eliminating cashless bail =/= eliminating bail

 

It just means that whether or not you’re in pretrial detention is dependent on your danger to the community or flight risk and not how much money you have. 

 

 

I watched the Cheektowaga police press conference on this. They said they couldn't hold him on bail bc he had not committed a felony. 

 

But it sure seems like he did. 

 

I'd love to know if they intentionally withheld the proper charges to stick it to proponents of cashless bail for small offenses. 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Motorin'

[Chef Jim]

Bail is a tough one for me.  It locks up those for long periods of time who cannot afford bail.  A classic example of guilty until proven innocent.  It’s a way to make sure they return for their trial.  How about we put an ankle bracelet on those not a threat to the community.  They don’t show up we go scoop them up and put them on trial and keep them locked up during it. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

Hell we force bracelets on people who get a couple DUI’s that will tell if they’ve had any alcohol 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Chef Jim

[ChiGoose]

I found some info on the NY rules around bail and there is a glaring loophole they clearly need to fix:

 

Quote

According to the new law, judges have the option to set bail in almost any case involving a violent felony. In these “bail eligible” cases, a defendant must pay an assessed bail or face detention. In virtually all other cases, which include most misdemeanors and nonviolent felonies, judges may release people on their own recognizance or impose some other set of conditions to ensure their return to court. Such conditions include restrictions on travel or supervision by a pretrial supervision agency.

 

When deciding whether to release a person or set bail, the law requires judges to focus solely on the conditions that will ensure that the person returns to court. That means, unlike most other states, New York judges cannot consider their subjective view of a person’s “dangerousness” when deciding what release conditions to set. New York’s approach, which dates back to the 1970s, reflects an attempt to preserve the presumption of innocence and reduce racial biases against defendants. State legislators carefully considered revisiting this rule in 2020 but ultimately decided against it.

They should close that loophole and bring it in line with more sensible bail reform laws. 

[Motorin']

Just now, Chef Jim said:

Bail is a tough one for me.  It locks up those for long periods of time who cannot afford bail.  A classic example of guilty until proven innocent.  It’s a way to make sure they return for their trial.  How about we put an ankle bracelet on them.  They don’t show up we go scoop them up and put them on trial and keep them locked up during it. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

Hell we force bracelets on people who get a couple DUI’s that will tell if they’ve had any alcohol 

 

There's a place for cashless bail, and domestic violence is not that place. Ever. 

 

I personally think the Cheektowaga police were full of ***** pretending their hands were tied letting this guy go. 

 

In their press conference on this poor woman's murder they campaign for politicians who are against all cashless bail. 

 

 

[ChiGoose]

3 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

I personally think the Cheektowaga police were full of ***** pretending their hands were tied letting this guy go. 

 

In their press conference on this poor woman's murder they campaign for politicians who are against all cashless bail. 

 

 

It wouldn’t surprise me. The amount of misinformation about bail reform specifically, and crime in general, is staggering.

 

Illinois’ bail reform is going into effect soon and we are being inundated with ads that straight up lie about what the law entails. They are calling it the “purge law” to scare people. 
 

They are even printing fake newspapers that look real but are full of misleading “articles” designed to scare people into voting Republican. 

[Motorin']

2 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

It wouldn’t surprise me. The amount of misinformation about bail reform specifically, and crime in general, is staggering.

 

Illinois’ bail reform is going into effect soon and we are being inundated with ads that straight up lie about what the law entails. They are calling it the “purge law” to scare people. 
 

They are even printing fake newspapers that look real but are full of misleading “articles” designed to scare people into voting Republican. 

 

I was literally on a plane last month where a woman was insisting that Chicago was instituting the Purge...

 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

8 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

There's a place for cashless bail, and domestic violence is not that place. Ever. 

 

I personally think the Cheektowaga police were full of ***** pretending their hands were tied letting this guy go. 

 

In their press conference on this poor woman's murder they campaign for politicians who are against all cashless bail. 

 

 

So, what was the end game you think they had in mind?  That the guy would kill he so they could politic thereafter?  What could he have been charged with to keep in off the streets?  
 

 

[ChiGoose]

1 minute ago, Motorin' said:

 

I was literally on a plane last month where a woman was insisting that Chicago was instituting the Purge...

 

 

It’s an obviously dumb talking point. What would the point be? What advantage would Democrats hope to achieve by increasing crime (something that dramatically helps the GOP)?

 

Makes no sense but people believe what they want to believe. 
 

If you want to see what they are up to, here’s a post that shows some of the fake newspapers. We got one and it took me a minute to figure out what was going on. 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

15 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

I was literally on a plane last month where a woman was insisting that Chicago was instituting the Purge...

 

 

My familiarity with Chicago is limited to interaction with a few close friends.  I spoke with one last week who suggested that serious crime is a major concern.  He owns an office building not far from Wrigley field, has closed it to the public as a result of his experiences.  He owns an apartment in an area that was gentrified 15-20 years ago, has an app on his phone that tracks serious incidents and walked to a nearby store only to get notice there was a shooting at a corner he had passed a few minutes earlier. 
 

The other friend is a financial planner with an office in the city.  Same general view on crime increasing at an alarming rate, citing a friends wife shot in the head on one of the freeways as the impetus to move his business out of Chicago and ultimately down to Florida. 
 

Neither mentioned a purge, both are born/raised Chicagoan’s who love the city, invested in the city and see a dangerous decline in quality of life. 
 

I’m sure others have different opinions and thoughts, and maybe it’s the safest city in America and their experiences are unique. The flip side of “omg it’s a purge” is “omg what are people even complaining about”? 
 

 

Edited November 3, 2022 by leh-nerd skin-erd

[ChiGoose]

9 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

My familiarity with Chicago is limited to interaction with a few close friends.  I spoke with one last week who suggested that serious crime is a major concern.  He owns an office building not far from Wrigley field, has closed it to the public as a result of his experiences.  He owns an apartment in an area that was gentrified 15-20 years ago, has an app on his phone that tracks serious incidents and walked to a nearby store only to get notice there was a shooting at a corner he had passed a few minutes earlier. 
 

The other friend is a financial planner with an office in the city.  Same general view on crime increasing at an alarming rate, citing a friends wife shot in the head on one of the freeways as the impetus to move his business out of Chicago and ultimately down to Florida. 
 

Neither mentioned a purge, both are born/raised Chicagoan’s who love the city, invested in the city and see a dangerous decline in quality of life. 
 

I’m sure others have different opinions and thoughts, and maybe it’s the safest city in America and their experiences are unique. The flip side of “omg it’s a purge” is “omg what are people even complaining about”? 
 

 

 

Crime is up a bit but the coverage of crime in the news is grossly disproportionate to reality, leading people to believe that crime is much worse than it really is:

 

 

For people who experience crime, that's not a comforting thought and we need to implement reality based solutions. However, the fearmongering is also very beneficial to some actors, which helps drive the narrative that crime is skyrocketing when it's really not.

 

That app your friend uses is likely Citizen. It's interesting and can be helpful, but it relies on user-reported information. I've seen multiple times when there was a shooting reported and then it turned out it was fireworks (some neighborhoods here love fireworks for some reason) or some other loud noise and not actually a shooting.

[Doc]

47 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Bail is a tough one for me.  It locks up those for long periods of time who cannot afford bail.  A classic example of guilty until proven innocent.  It’s a way to make sure they return for their trial.  How about we put an ankle bracelet on those not a threat to the community.  They don’t show up we go scoop them up and put them on trial and keep them locked up during it. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

Hell we force bracelets on people who get a couple DUI’s that will tell if they’ve had any alcohol 

 

Don't do the crime...

[Tiberius]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Don't do the crime...

...if you don't want to be duly convicted of for it. Right? 

[Chef Jim]

22 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Don't do the crime...

 

And many people who have been locked up because they couldn't afford bail did NOT commit the crime.  That's my point.  

[SoCal Deek]

5 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

And many people who have been locked up because they couldn't afford bail did NOT commit the crime.  That's my point.  

While appreciate the sentiment, that’s not a reason to allow people who DID  commit a crime to be immediately released back into society. I’m going to side with the victims, and potential future victims, here and support a bail system that allows the truly innocent to get out while awaiting trial. But that’s just me. It really isn’t that hard to avoid being arrested of a crime! 

[LeviF]

1 hour ago, ChiGoose said:

I found some info on the NY rules around bail and there is a glaring loophole they clearly need to fix:

 

They should close that loophole and bring it in line with more sensible bail reform laws. 

You say “loophole” as if this wasn’t by design. 

[SectionC3]

54 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Don't do the crime...

innocent until proven guilty.    

[ChiGoose]

9 minutes ago, LeviF said:

You say “loophole” as if this wasn’t by design. 

You say this as if this wasn’t in that very same post:

 

“State legislators carefully considered revisiting this rule in 2020 but ultimately decided against it.”

 

Not addressing this leaves a loophole where people who clearly pose a threat aren’t detained if they aren’t charged with a felony.

 

It may be good-intentioned to try to avoid bias but if you have someone who has committed assaults, requires a restraining order, and has a history of violence, the judge should be able to have them held even if none of the specific charges amount to a felony.