What Is "Christian Nationalism"?

[OrangeBills]

3 hours ago, Tiberius said:

No no, religion in general has been very misogynist, this is true of christianity. You can't admit that

so dumb.  So very I’ll-informed

 

Do you know how females were treated 1000s of years ago?  Not well.  Christian values greatly improved the plight of women around the world.

 

geezus

[Tiberius]

5 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

Alzheimer's would be an advancement.

What's your opinion of this guy? Such a fake 

 

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/j-r-majewski-s-afghanistan-lies-show-bigger-gop-problem-n1299059

4 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:

so dumb.  So very I’ll-informed

 

Do you know how females were treated 1000s of years ago?  Not well.  Christian values greatly improved the plight of women around the world.

 

geezus

Really? In what ways? 

[sherpa]

3 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

What's your opinion of this guy? Such a fake 

 

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/j-r-majewski-s-afghanistan-lies-show-bigger-gop-problem-n1299059

 

I'm not sure why you are asking me this, and I have no view, but if you have any ounce of integrity you might ask the same of CT. Senator Richard Blumenthal.

A liar exposed.

 

Either way, we have way more important issues to deal with than lying politicians, which is redundant.

 

[Chef Jim]

12 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I don't make the rules on topic love,  Chef.  I'm just a vessel here. 

 

I have no interest in arguing the point, have no desire to suggest you follow The/A Word, and to be completely honest, struggle at times with issues of faith (mine, not anyone else's).   I do think it's a lazy argument that those who found comfort in faith, lived lives of faith, or followed the basic tenets of faith are overshadowed by the 'horrible things' done.  I won't argue that many, many, many  horrible things were done in the name of faith, but I'd argue whether many/most of those actions fly in contrast to the basic tenets of faith.  I'd also argue there has been a sh&t ton of of non-religious, non-faith based horrible %$#@ done by humans to other humans.  

 

It is not a lazy argument.  If someone finds comfort in their faith?  Have at it. It helps them great. One person or the handful they touch throughout their lives benefits from their faith.  However a handful of religious zealots/leaders have been responsible for the massacre of millions.  
 

And again just because there has been a ***** ton more non-faith based horror does not absolve those who commit atrocities in the name of their God.  Look what’s going on in Iran now in the name of their God.  Is your God better than theirs?  
 

Trust me I have nothing against those who believe.  I’ll actually take them over arrogant atheists all day long. Just don’t tell me religion has not caused major problems in man’s history.  

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

2 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

It is not a lazy argument.  If someone finds comfort in their faith?  Have at it. It helps them great. One person or the handful they touch throughout their lives benefits from their faith.  However a handful of religious zealots/leaders have been responsible for the massacre of millions.  
 

And again just because there has been a ***** ton more non-faith based horror does not absolve those who commit atrocities in the name of their God.  Look what’s going on in Iran now in the name of their God.  Is your God better than theirs?  
 

Trust me I have nothing against those who believe.  I’ll actually take them over arrogant atheists all day long. Just don’t tell me religion has not caused major problems in man’s history.  

The original post I replied to was when you suggested  'more harm than good'.  I don't think that's true, hence my reply. I agree that people acting in the name of some version of God  have caused massive, major problems throughout history.  

 

As for Iran, I'd guess we would have to discuss who(m) is doing what to who(m), and their perspective on their God.  I try hard to avoid bigotry and bias, and I'd think there are Iranian's who's views would align with mine--peaceful alignment with beliefs and society, love of family, respect for others etc.  I'd think if their God was down with that sort of thing, their God sounds a lot like my God.  If, on the other hand, their God was about complete and total subjugation of all, my God is, indeed better than theirs.  

 

About 20 years ago, I chose a doctor who was born, raised an educated in Afghanistan.  We had met through friends, spoke quite a bit about his faith (Muslim) and mine.  He spoke about the destruction of the village he grew up in, the medical school he attended being destroyed by fundamentalists and how difficult it was.   More than a few of my life lessons start like that, where someone talks to me, I think about their experiences, and how I might feel if it was me.  

 

I had an infection in my finger one time, went to see him and he suggested it should be lanced.  He said to me before he got started "Be ready.  This is not going to be unpainful.".  I thought about that, looked at him and said "You're saying it's going to hurt?", to which he replied "Yes, it will hurt quite a bit".    It was pretty funny, and he was correct.   

[Tiberius]

45 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

I'm not sure why you are asking me this, and I have no view, but if you have any ounce of integrity you might ask the same of CT. Senator Richard Blumenthal.

A liar exposed.

 

Either way, we have way more important issues to deal with than lying politicians, which is redundant.

 

No opinion? Of a guy lying about his service record? Wow 

[Chef Jim]

21 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

The original post I replied to was when you suggested  'more harm than good'.  I don't think that's true, hence my reply. I agree that people acting in the name of some version of God  have caused massive, major problems throughout history.  

 

 

 

IMO if one person is murdered in the name of God that outweighs any good the religion has done.

 

I agree with most of your response regarding Iran.  

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

2 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

IMO if one person is murdered in the name of God that outweighs any good the religion has done.

 

I agree with most of your response regarding Iran.  

That's whack.  Did the action of Derek Chauvin outweigh any of the good of law enforcement has done over the past couple thousand years? 

 

Anyway, we'll always have Iran.  That's enough in this crazy world.

[Chef Jim]

5 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

That's whack.  Did the action of Derek Chauvin outweigh any of the good of law enforcement has done over the past couple thousand years? 

 

Anyway, we'll always have Iran.  That's enough in this crazy world.

 

Was Derek Chauvin acting on behalf of a higher power?  Come on Skynyrd....you can do better than that. 

[SoCal Deek]

30 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

IMO if one person is murdered in the name of God that outweighs any good the religion has done.

 

 

That has to be one of the oddest things I’ve ever read on here. I have some idea of how old you are Chef. If you've truly lived by that principle you must be very much alone. You don’t judge the validity of God by the sinful nature of man. Much in the same way you don’t right off an entire group of people because one of them is a whack job. (There’s an entire Bible story where we’re taught that God won’t do the same to you/us.)

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

15 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Was Derek Chauvin acting on behalf of a higher power?  Come on Skynyrd....you can do better than that. 

The US government?  
 

Seriously? The power to end your life, end life as you know it, imprison or emotionally and physically, and offer sweet redemption when you stray? Seize the product of your work?  Add to that comments about shared values, the soul of the nation, the greater good and justice for all. 
 

I’m comfortable with my response based on the ground rules as you laid it out.  

Then again, they were your ground rules, not mine.  I held a different opinion. 

 

[Chef Jim]

8 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

That has to be one of the oddest things I’ve ever read on here. I have some idea of how old you are Chef. If you've truly lived by that principle you must be very much alone. You don’t judge the validity of God by the sinful nature of man. Much in the same way you don’t right off an entire group of people because one of them is a whack job. (There’s an entire Bible story where we’re taught that God won’t do the same to you/us.)

 

So the Crusades were just a bunch of whack jobs and not a series of wars directed by the church?  

 

Religion is VERY powerful and has prompted people since the beginning of time to do things they otherwise would likely not do.  

 

Are you proud of your evil religious history?  Do you condemn it?  To me is shows me there is no God.  If so why would he let things like that happen in his name?  

[Pokebball]

2 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

 

Are you proud of your evil religious history?  Do you condemn it?  To me is shows me there is no God.  If so why would he let things like that happen in his name?  

Free will

[Chef Jim]

11 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

The US government?  
 

Seriously? The power to end your life, end life as you know it, imprison or emotionally and physically, and offer sweet redemption when you stray? Seize the product of your work?  Add to that comments about shared values, the soul of the nation, the greater good and justice for all. 
 

I’m comfortable with my response based on the ground rules as you laid it out.  

Then again, they were your ground rules, not mine.  I held a different opinion. 

 

 

The government?  He acted on his own with no directive of the government.  As a matter of fact the same government imprisoned him for his actions.  

 

Now about the Crusades.  How do you feel about them?  Religious persecution in England?  It's what prompted colonization of the New World. .  Why very religious men knew to make sure we did not have a national religion.  Why we have the religious freedom we have here today. 

[SoCal Deek]

4 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

So the Crusades were just a bunch of whack jobs and not a series of wars directed by the church?  

 

Religion is VERY powerful and has prompted people since the beginning of time to do things they otherwise would likely not do.  

 

Are you proud of your evil religious history?  Do you condemn it?  To me is shows me there is no God.  If so why would he let things like that happen in his name?  

So your version of God is someone that controls every move that everyone makes? I think you're confusing God for the people pulling Biden's strings at the White House. (kidding.....sort of)

[Chef Jim]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

So your version of God is someone that controls every move that everyone makes? I think you're confusing God for the people pulling Biden's strings at the White House. (kidding.....sort of)

 

Controls?  No.  Influences?  Hell yeah. 

 

So your God has no responsibility for how people interpret his message?  

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Controls?  No.  Influences?  Hell yeah. 

 

So your God has no responsibility for how people interpret his message?  

No, he has gifted Mankind the unique character of free will.  You have to look at things with a godlike timeline. As an example: I was sitting on the beach yesterday, reading a book, and watching while two little sisters fought, cried, and made up over and over and over again in the span on an hour or two. Their mother pretty much just sat there. She knew they would always make up and go right back to playing. God's timeline is much like the mother's.  Your (and my) meager existence on this planet is fleeting. A vapor in the wind. Here today and gone tomorrow.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

27 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

So the Crusades were just a bunch of whack jobs and not a series of wars directed by the church?  

 

Religion is VERY powerful and has prompted people since the beginning of time to do things they otherwise would likely not do.  

 

Are you proud of your evil religious history?  Do you condemn it?  To me is shows me there is no God.  If so why would he let things like that happen in his name?  

Ho’d up Chef.  
 

We exchanged ideas on the big picture as it relates to religion, and then you made your point about one murder outweighing all the good that faith contributed to the lives of people historically.  When I shifted that to law enforcement, you called me out and I offered what I think is a reasonable counterpoint as it relates to the power, cultural significance and dogma of right v wrong as offered by the US Government. 
 

Then, ::wupshaw:: you want to teleport me back to The Crusades and 1200 years ago??  
 

Around here we call that a Tiberian Shift.  I mow’ def know you are better than that. 
 

Be that as it may, if you prefer not to address that in relation to your standard, that’s fine. If it’s Chef and Lehn’s Excellent Adventure, so be it, back to the year 1100 we go. 
 

I believe the Crusades were directed by The Church, I believe the actions undertaken fall into the category of the horrible stuff we already agreed on.  I am neither proud, nor embarrassed by the historical record, choosing instead to focus on the misguided and often evil acts of man at the time.  
 

As for this being proof to you of the fallacy of the concept of God, you already made that point.   I’ll revert back to our earlier posts on the subject and simply say that the comfort and power of faith has been of benefit of untold billions and of people.    
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LeviF]

My record on the topic of religion is well-established in these fora. That said, those who would speak about Christianity would do well to actually educate themselves on the topic before making wildly inaccurate claims about a religion that has been established for close to 2000 years. 
 

The historical record of Christianity and its influence on western government is well-documented. No reason to speak from ignorance when many of your claims can be debunked by popping open a book that you can get at any public library. 

[Tiberius]

20 minutes ago, LeviF said:

My record on the topic of religion is well-established in these fora. That said, those who would speak about Christianity would do well to actually educate themselves on the topic before making wildly inaccurate claims about a religion that has been established for close to 2000 years. 
 

The historical record of Christianity and its influence on western government is well-documented. No reason to speak from ignorance when many of your claims can be debunked by popping open a book that you can get at any public library. 

Republican government is not in the bible. It is way more inline with the monarchy we separated from. This government protects us from the many, many headaches, problems, bloodshed and hate religion fostered 

 

I mean really, there is no reason for Protestants and Catholics to hate each other 

[B-Man]

23 minutes ago, LeviF said:

My record on the topic of religion is well-established in these fora. That said, those who would speak about Christianity would do well to actually educate themselves on the topic before making wildly inaccurate claims about a religion that has been established for close to 2000 years. 
 

The historical record of Christianity and its influence on western government is well-documented. No reason to speak from ignorance when many of your claims can be debunked by popping open a book that you can get at any public library. 

 

 

 

Amen.

 

 

 

 

 

.

[Tiberius]

49 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Amen.

 

 

 

 

 

.

Nodding in ignorance, you are 

[nedboy7]

1 hour ago, LeviF said:

My record on the topic of religion is well-established in these fora. That said, those who would speak about Christianity would do well to actually educate themselves on the topic before making wildly inaccurate claims about a religion that has been established for close to 2000 years. 
 

The historical record of Christianity and its influence on western government is well-documented. No reason to speak from ignorance when many of your claims can be debunked by popping open a book that you can get at any public library. 

 

This seems a little alarming to people intelligent enough to not buy into organized religion.  I have no problem with people who love god. 

 

"We know that we are in the last of the last days," Boebert later said, referencing the belief held by some evangelical Christians that Jesus will return after a period of tribulation, or great suffering, and save believers. "But it's not a time to complain about it. It's not a time to get upset about it. It's a time to know that you were called to be a part of these last days. You get to have a role in ushering in the second coming of Jesus."

Boebert's comments expressing an intrinsic tie between the US and Christianity aren't new: In June she said she was "tired of this separation of church and state junk" and that "the church is supposed to direct the government." But by invoking the end times, Boebert is tapping into a side of Christian nationalism that has been associated with violence.

Although a spokesperson for Boebert told The Denver Post she does not identify as a Christian nationalist, her comments align with the tenets of Christian nationalism, an ideology and cultural framework that says Christianity should have a privileged position in American society.

"We found in our book that among Americans that embrace Christian nationalism, we see increasingly this embrace of a premillennialist interpretation of the end times, where there will be a tribulation but Christ will take away the faithful," Andrew Whitehead, a sociologist at IUPUI and co-author of "Taking America Back for God: Christian Nationalism in the United States," told Insider.

[B-Man]

1 minute ago, nedboy7 said:

 

This seems a little alarming to people intelligent enough to not buy into organized religion.  I have no problem with people who love god. 

 

 

 

[nedboy7]

Just now, B-Man said:

 

 

 

Wow you are stupid.  Do you get the difference moron? 

[Tiberius]

2 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

This seems a little alarming to people intelligent enough to not buy into organized religion.  I have no problem with people who love god. 

 

"We know that we are in the last of the last days," Boebert later said, referencing the belief held by some evangelical Christians that Jesus will return after a period of tribulation, or great suffering, and save believers. "But it's not a time to complain about it. It's not a time to get upset about it. It's a time to know that you were called to be a part of these last days. You get to have a role in ushering in the second coming of Jesus."

Boebert's comments expressing an intrinsic tie between the US and Christianity aren't new: In June she said she was "tired of this separation of church and state junk" and that "the church is supposed to direct the government." But by invoking the end times, Boebert is tapping into a side of Christian nationalism that has been associated with violence.

Although a spokesperson for Boebert told The Denver Post she does not identify as a Christian nationalist, her comments align with the tenets of Christian nationalism, an ideology and cultural framework that says Christianity should have a privileged position in American society.

"We found in our book that among Americans that embrace Christian nationalism, we see increasingly this embrace of a premillennialist interpretation of the end times, where there will be a tribulation but Christ will take away the faithful," Andrew Whitehead, a sociologist at IUPUI and co-author of "Taking America Back for God: Christian Nationalism in the United States," told Insider.

Crazy! These are going to be the nut cases running the House of Reps if they win 

[nedboy7]

Desantis is having a hard week.....

 

A Gadsden County Commissioner appointed by Gov. Ron DeSantis abruptly resigned last week after pictures allegedly showing him in a Ku Klux Klan outfit started to circulate, according to Gadsden County Sheriff Morris Young.

Young said that the pictures were brought to him last Tuesday and multiple people told him the pictures were of Gadsden County Commissioner Jeff Moore. He said when he approached Moore about the pictures, Moore did not deny it was him.

“He never denied at all. Refuted nothing when I showed him the pictures,” Young said in an interview. Young, who is Black, endorsed DeSantis. “I thought he needed to resign, and I told him that.”

Moore, a Republican, was appointed by DeSantis to serve as commissioner in early August. The governor’s office confirmed on Monday that Moore resigned last week, but said they did not know why.

“We are in the middle of hurricane prep, I’m not aware of the photo you sent but Jeff did submit his resignation last week,” said Taryn Fenske, DeSantis’ communications director.

[Tiberius]

15 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

Desantis is having a hard week.....

 

A Gadsden County Commissioner appointed by Gov. Ron DeSantis abruptly resigned last week after pictures allegedly showing him in a Ku Klux Klan outfit started to circulate, according to Gadsden County Sheriff Morris Young.

Young said that the pictures were brought to him last Tuesday and multiple people told him the pictures were of Gadsden County Commissioner Jeff Moore. He said when he approached Moore about the pictures, Moore did not deny it was him.

“He never denied at all. Refuted nothing when I showed him the pictures,” Young said in an interview. Young, who is Black, endorsed DeSantis. “I thought he needed to resign, and I told him that.”

Moore, a Republican, was appointed by DeSantis to serve as commissioner in early August. The governor’s office confirmed on Monday that Moore resigned last week, but said they did not know why.

“We are in the middle of hurricane prep, I’m not aware of the photo you sent but Jeff did submit his resignation last week,” said Taryn Fenske, DeSantis’ communications director.

Commissioner of a majority black community. I'm sure that was an accident 

[nedboy7]

38 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Commissioner of a majority black community. I'm sure that was an accident 

but he is a good Christian! 

[nedboy7]

20 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

No, he has gifted Mankind the unique character of free will.  You have to look at things with a godlike timeline. As an example: I was sitting on the beach yesterday, reading a book, and watching while two little sisters fought, cried, and made up over and over and over again in the span on an hour or two. Their mother pretty much just sat there. She knew they would always make up and go right back to playing. God's timeline is much like the mother's.  Your (and my) meager existence on this planet is fleeting. A vapor in the wind. Here today and gone tomorrow.

 

Cool your god seems interesting. I just dont want him near my government.  As in the constitution. 

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

Cool your god seems interesting. I just dont want him near my government.  As in the constitution. 

God is cool! I also don’t want him near government. But the inverse is also true…keep your godless government away from my ability to ‘access’ my God! 

[nedboy7]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

God is cool! I also don’t want him near government. But the inverse is also true…keep your godless government away from my ability to ‘access’ my God! 

 

Seems to me with all the BS your party spews about bringing god back in control of the country I am the one who should be worried.  People's relationship to god is personal and private. 

Your god is a man ha?  Is he white? 

[TSOL]

7 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

Seems to me with all the BS your party spews about bringing god back in control of the country I am the one who should be worried.  People's relationship to god is personal and private. 

Your god is a man ha?  Is he white? 

 

 

There's been a couple of you lefties lately trying to bait a "gender of God" discussion. 

 

What's up with that? 

Edited September 28, 2022 by TSOL
Sp

[SoCal Deek]

9 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

Seems to me with all the BS your party spews about bringing god back in control of the country I am the one who should be worried.  People's relationship to god is personal and private. 

Your god is a man ha?  Is he white? 

Do you have any idea how utterly ridiculous those questions are to God? Classic twenty first century American attitude. Not sure if your argument is with me or God? If the latter you’ll need to take your questions to God. Go for it! Here’s a hint though, I’d lower the hubris a tad. Just saying. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

27 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

Seems to me with all the BS your party spews about bringing god back in control of the country I am the one who should be worried.  People's relationship to god is personal and private. 

Your god is a man ha?  Is he white? 

See, this is where you reveal your true colors, Ned.  

 

@SoCal Deek says he agrees with you that religion should not be close to government, and similarly suggests that government should stay away from his ability to worship as he sees fit.

 

A normal, reasonable, American reply would be "Agreed".  Instead, you respond with gibberish and attempt to mock his reply.  

 

You're exactly the type of individual recruited to harass someone on the other side of whatever coin you're on, you just lack the ability to see it. 

 

 

[LeviF]

26 minutes ago, TSOL said:

 

 

There's been a couple of you lefties lately trying to bait a "gender of God" discussion. 

 

What's up with that? 

 

It's another basic blind spot that they don't realize just tells on themselves.

 

Except for trolling, there's no reason to argue about something you know absolutely nothing about.

[SoCal Deek]

7 minutes ago, LeviF said:

 

It's another basic blind spot that they don't realize just tells on themselves.

 

Except for trolling, there's no reason to argue about something you know absolutely nothing about.

Now wait a minute! Ned and the others actually may be onto something. Putting 100% of your faith in government has been proven to have had an excellent track record down through the centuries. (Or at the very least it's bound to work this time....right?)

[Tiberius]

9 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Now wait a minute! Ned and the others actually may be onto something. Putting 100% of your faith in government has been proven to have had an excellent track record down through the centuries. (Or at the very least it's bound to work this time....right?)

How do you square the notion of Christian love and wanting to turn away desperate poor immigrants fleeing oppression? Seems like you just pick and choose what you want Christianity to be. Is it really that amorphous? 

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, Tiberius said:

How do you square the notion of Christian love and wanting to turn away desperate poor immigrants fleeing oppression? Seems like you just pick and choose what you want Christianity to be. Is it really that amorphous? 

Wait....I thought we were keeping Christianity and Government separate?  Not today? 

[nedboy7]

33 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

See, this is where you reveal your true colors, Ned.  

 

@SoCal Deek says he agrees with you that religion should not be close to government, and similarly suggests that government should stay away from his ability to worship as he sees fit.

 

A normal, reasonable, American reply would be "Agreed".  Instead, you respond with gibberish and attempt to mock his reply.  

 

You're exactly the type of individual recruited to harass someone on the other side of whatever coin you're on, you just lack the ability to see it. 

 

 

 

Seems to me while he supposedly agrees with that he supports a party who's goal is to do exactly that.  I respect his god.  I would guess he respects mine.  That is a real question.  That is not harassment.  We are having a discussion.  Also when did our government stop anyone from practicing their religion? 

 

Please stop with the normal reasonable American response.  We seen how you played Jan 6th and voter fraud and Trump having top secret documents..  You guys are absurd. 

 

 

31 minutes ago, LeviF said:

 

It's another basic blind spot that they don't realize just tells on themselves.

 

Except for trolling, there's no reason to argue about something you know absolutely nothing about.

 

So you are suggesting I do not know about your god somehow?  Or your teachings? 

Edited September 28, 2022 by nedboy7