Recap of Fourth Jan 6 Hearing

[ChiGoose]

I've been busy, so I didn't get a chance to finish watching this until this morning. Hopefully won't take as long for today's hearing.

 

RECAP

 

Rusty Bowers (GOP Speaker of the Arizona House):

• Wanted Donald Trump to win a second term of office, but Joe Biden won the election in Arizona
• Despite Trump’s assertions otherwise, Bowers never told Trump that he won the election nor that the election was rigged.
• Rudy called Bowers saying that he had proof of fraud, including illegal immigrants and dead people voting. Bowers asked for the evidence but Rudy never provided it.
• Rudy wanted Bowers to hold an official committee meeting to remove the electors and replace them with Trump electors. Bowers told them that they were asking him to violate his oath.
• Bowers asked Rudy and Jenna Ellis for the names of people who voted illegally, but they never provided any evidence.
• Giuliani: “We have lots of theories but we don’t have any evidence”
• Nobody every provided Bowers with evidence of fraud to question the outcome in Arizona
• John Eastman told Bowers to decertify the electors but Bowers replied that this would violate both his oath to the constitution and to the state of Arizona
• Bowers has received 20,000 emails and 10,000 voicemails and texts. On Saturdays, groups will come by his home with video panel trucks and blaring loudspeakers proclaiming him to be a pedophile, pervert, and corrupt. This was when his daughter was gravely ill and living with him.
  • One man had a shirt with three bars on it, carried a pistol and threatened his neighbor.
  •  

Brad Raffensberger (Secretary of State of Georgia):

• Wanted Donald Trump to win the 2020 election, but Joe Biden won.
• Ballots were counted three times: scanned, hand recount, and scanned again. All results were consistent.
• 28,000 Georgians skipped the presidential election and voted down ballot.
• The GOP congressmen got 33,000 more votes than Trump.
• Trump claimed that 5,000 dead people voted and filed lawsuits that 10,315 did, but the actual number was four.
• Trump claimed that there were 66,000 underaged voters, but the actual number was zero (17-year-olds can register so long as they will be 18 by election day).
• Trump claimed 2,424 non-registered people voted: actually zero
• Trump claimed 2,056 felons voted but it was really fewer than 75
• Raffensberger offered to send Trump a link to the entire election counting video that would disprove his claims but Trump responded that he didn’t need it since he had a “better” link.
• Trump (audio from phone call): The real truth is that I won by 400,000 votes at least. So what are we going to do here folks?”
• Trump (audio from phone call): “I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state”
• Raffensberger was doxed and got threats from all over the country. His wife got threats that were sexual in nature. His daughter-in-law’s home was broken into.
• Raffensberger followed the law and the constitution. At the end of the day, Trump came up short.

 

Gabriel Sterling (COO in Georgia Secretary State of Georgia: in charge of voting systems and COVID voting):

• Received a call from a contact at Dominion who was audibly shaken. They were receiving threats.
• On the claim of suitcases full of ballots:
  • Investigated it and found it was normal ballot processing
  • If you watch the entire video, the election workers were under the impression that they got to go home around 10pm so they were packing up and putting ballots to be counted into tamper proof containers. The election monitors were still there.
  • The Secretary of State’s office called and told them to stay, and you can see the director slumping at his desk, not wanting to tell people they can’t go home. He tells them, and they take their coats off and resume counting.
• On claims of double counting:
  • Standard procedure for a miss-scan is to delete the count and rerun
  • Any issues would be discovered during the manual tally
  • Hand tallies can have a discrepancy of 1-2% but because of how Georgia runs elections, the hand tally was within 0.105% of the total votes cast and 0.0099% of the margin

 

Kenneth Chesebro (Trump Laywer) memo:

• Outlined a plan of competing slates of electors in the battleground states won by Biden. Then Pence can pick the Trump electors from those states.

 

Cassidy Hutchinson (Aide to Mark Meadows):

• Giuliani, Meadows, and some members of Congress were involved in the dual electors scheme
• White House counsel told them that the plan for alternate electors was not legally sound

 

Ronna Romney McDaniel (RNC Chair):

• Trump and Eastman called and told them it was important for the RNC to help with the dual electors.

 

Robert Sinners (Trump Campaign Staffer):

• We were useful idiots and rubes at that point [for working to get the dual electors]
• After hearing testimony from others on the campaign he was angry that nobody cared about putting people like him in jeopardy
• Would not have participated had he known the three main campaign lawyers were not on board

 

Laura Cox (Michigan Republican Party Chair):

• Was told the MI republican electors were planning to meet in the capitol and hide overnight so they could fulfill the law of casting their vote in the Michigan chambers

 

Documents from campaign:

• Electors had to cast ballots in secret
• Electors asked for the campaign to pay legal fees
• Fake electors signed certificates that they were the correct electors
• Wisconsin officials texted that the Trump campaign wanted someone to fly their fake electors docs to DC
• Staffer for Sen. Ron Johnson texted Pence staffer that Johnson wanted to hand deliver fake electors. Pence staffer said do not give them

 

Audio of call between Trump and Francis Watson (GA investigator):

• “I won by hundreds of thousands of votes. It wasn’t close”
• “Whatever you can do Frances it would be, it’s a great thing. It’s an important thing for the country, so important. You have no idea, it’s so important and I very much appreciate it.”
• “Do you think they’ll be working after Christmas, to keep it going fast? Because, you know, we have that date of the 6th, which is a very important date.”

 

Shaye Moss (Fulton Country department of registration and elections):

• In a decade of service, she had never received threats before
• Loved her job because she was told by her grandmother how important it was to vote and that people in her family didn’t always have that chance.
• Giuliani called out her and her mother as part of a scheme to run ballots through multiple times. This was not true
• Giuliani said they were passing around USB drives like cocaine. It was a ginger mint.
• Checked Facebook and there were a lot of death threats, telling her that she’ll be in jail with her mother. “Be glad it’s 2020, not 1920”
• Her mother, Ruby Freeman, helped with the election.
• On Trump call to Raffensberger:
  • “We had at least 18,000, that’s on tape, we had them counted very painstakingly, 18,000 voters having to do with Ruby Freeman, she’s a vote scammer, a professional vote scammer and hustler.”
  • Moss: Felt it was her fault for wanting to be an election worker. Felt it was her fault to put her family in this situation where they were now getting threats
• Doesn't want anyone to know her name. She won’t go places with her mom in case she shouts her name. She won’t go out at all. Gained 60lbs. Second guess everything that she does. It has affected her life in a major way, all because of lies.
• People showed up at her grandmother’s house. Grandmother called her screaming at the top of her lungs that people were at her home. They knocked on her door, she opened it and they pushed their way into the house claiming they were making a citizen’s arrest, looking for Shaye and her mom. Shaye had to tell her not to go out or answer the door
  • At night, people would continually send pizzas over and over and she was expected to pay
• Nobody from the video is still a permanent election worker or supervisor. Shaye left her position.

 

Ruby Freeman’s recorded testimony:

• Used to wear a shirt with her name on it but now she won’t tell people her name. She’s worried about being identified or having to give her name in public. She’s lost her name and her sense of security
• Stayed away from her home for two months for her safety
• “There is nowhere I feel safe. Nowhere. Do you know how it feels to have the President of the United States target you? The President of the United States is supposed to represent every American, not to target on. But he targeted me, Lady Ruby, a small business owner, a mother, a proud American citizen who stands up to help Fulton County run an election in the middle of the pandemic.”

 

TAKEAWAYS:

 

This hearing mostly focused on the dual electors scheme and the threats made to the people involved in the elections. On the latter, I don't have much to say other than it's heartbreaking and that forcing people out of their jobs through threats and replacing them with the kinds of people making those threats is a danger to our country. Especially since those jobs are responsible for our elections.

 

On the dual electors scheme, it was clearly illegal, they knew it was illegal, and they tried it anyway. Some of the electors signed affidavits that they were the true electors. Those people should be prosecuted.

 

As to Trump himself, I've thought that Georgia has been his most pressing legal exposure and the evidence here definitely puts him in jeopardy. He is on the record saying he won the election by 400,000 votes but that he just wanted Raffensberger to add 11,800 to his tally. This is telling the Secretary of State to input a number he knows is false (because he thinks the real number is about 400,000 more) and meets the prima facie case for election fraud under Georgia law. That does not mean he will be indicted, or if he is, that he'll be found guilty, but this seems pretty clear to be a crime.

 

Finally, a lot of the pushback I've seen here on the hearing is that it is partisan because it's only the people who believe the Democrats. Given the actual witnesses, the two sides really seem to be who will testify under oath and who will not (which should give you a hint as to who is more believable). But most of the people testifying are Republicans that wanted Trump to win, people who worked to get Trump elected, or people appointed to their positions by Trump.

 

Here is the list of some of the witnesses and authors of documents so far:

• Jared Kushner
• Ivanka Trump
• Bill Barr
• Jeffrey Rosen (Acting Attorney General)
• Richard Donoghue (Acting Deputy Attorney General)
• BJ Pak (US Attorney for the Northern District of Georgia)
• Bill Stepien (Trump Campaign Manager)
• Jason Miller (Trump Campaign Senior Advisor)
• Matt Morgan (Trump Campaign General Counsel)
• Alex Cannon (Trump Campaign Lawyer)
• John Eastman (Trump Campaign Lawyer)
• Kenneth Chesebro (Trump Campaign Lawyer)
• Robert Sinners (Trump Campaign Staffer)
• Eric Herschmann (Trump White House Lawyer)
• Derek Lyons (Counselor to the President)
• Sarah Matthews (Trump White House Deputy Press Secretary)
• Mark Short (Pence's Chief of Staff)
• Greg Jacobs (Pence's General Counsel)
• Ben Williamson (Aide to Mark Meadows)
• Cassidy Hutchinson (Aide to Mark Meadows)
• Ronna Romney McDaniel (RNC Chair)
• Brad Raffensberger (GOP Georgia Secretary of State)
• Gabriel Sterling (GOP COO for Georgia Secretary of State)
• Shaye Moss (Georgia election worker)
• Ruby Freeman (Georgia election worker)
• Rusty Bowers (GOP Speaker of the Arizona House)
• Al Scmidt (GOP City Commissioner of Philadelphia)
• Laure Cox (Michigan GOP Chair)
• Ben Ginsburg (GOP Election Lawyer)
• Michael Luttig (Conservative judge)
• Chris Stirewalt (Fox News Politics Editor)
• Sean Hannity

 

And here are just some of the people the committee has subpoenaed that we haven't heard from:

• House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy
• Rep. Mo Brooks
• Rep. Ronny Jackson
• Rep. Andy Biggs
• Rep. Barry Loudermilk
• Rep. Jim Jordan
• Rep. Scott Perry
• Jeffrey Clark (Acting Assistant AG)
• Kenneth Klukowski (Senior Counsel to Jeffrey Clark)
• Mark Meadows (WH Chief of Staff)
• Christopher Liddell (WH Deputy Chief of Staff)
• Stephen Miller (WH Senior Advisor)
• Michael Flynn (National Security Advisor)
• Peter Navarro (WH Trade Advisor)
• Daniel Scavino (WH Deputy Chief of Staff for Comms)
• Judd Deere (Deputy WH Press Secretary)
• Kayleigh McEnany (WH Press Secretary)
• John McEntee (WH Personnel Director)
• Brian Jack (WH Director of Political Affairs)
• Kash Patel (Chief of Staff to Def. Sec.)
• Nicholas Luna (Trump's Personal Assistant)
• Molly Michael (Special Assistant to the President)
• Max Miller (WH and campaign staffer)
• Keith Kellogg (Pence's National Security Advisor)
• Steve Bannon
• Jenna Ellis (Trump Campaign Attorney)
• Boris Epshteyn (Trump Campaign Strategic Advisor)
• Angela McCallum (Trump Campaign National Executive Assistant)
• Sidney Powell (Trump Campaign Lawyer)
• Michael Roman (Trump Campaign Director of Election Day Ops)
• Gary Michael Brown (Trump Campaign Deputy Director of Election Day Ops)
• Robert Peede Jr. (Met with Trump on Jan 4 to plan rally)
• Kimberly Guilfoyle

 

If this was truly just a partisan witch hunt, any of these people could accept the invitation to testify and blow up the entire narrative of the Jan 6th committee. But most of them are fighting as hard as they can to avoid testifying under oath for some reason...

[Demongyz]

Yeah, I think we all saw that happen in real time.  The FBI conducted an investigation.  

Why does this matter again? 

 

We know Trump and his band of clowns came up with all sorts of trash to try to claim the election was stolen.  He went to court and never once did they allege any voter fraud.  He's full of ***** and he knows it.  He planned a rally outside the capital on 1/6.  He told people to go to the capital and peacefully and patriotically make their voices heard.  Now, where did he organize the riot?  What language said by Trump caused them to attack the police and break into the capital?

 

There is no meat here.

 

The only thing Trump caused to happen in all of this is for Georgia to have had enough of his trash and they elected 2 Dems to the Senate.

Honestly, if the Dems want to make sure Trump can't be president again, they should focus on their jobs and perhaps let Trump speak. That seemed to work last time.

[ChiGoose]

28 minutes ago, Demongyz said:

Yeah, I think we all saw that happen in real time.  The FBI conducted an investigation.  

Why does this matter again? 

 

We know Trump and his band of clowns came up with all sorts of trash to try to claim the election was stolen.  He went to court and never once did they allege any voter fraud.  He's full of ***** and he knows it.  He planned a rally outside the capital on 1/6.  He told people to go to the capital and peacefully and patriotically make their voices heard.  Now, where did he organize the riot?  What language said by Trump caused them to attack the police and break into the capital?

 

There is no meat here.

 

The only thing Trump caused to happen in all of this is for Georgia to have had enough of his trash and they elected 2 Dems to the Senate.

Honestly, if the Dems want to make sure Trump can't be president again, they should focus on their jobs and perhaps let Trump speak. That seemed to work last time.

 

It's not just the violence on January 6th, it's everything that led up to it as well.

 

We now have Trump on tape committing a crime.

 

We also have sworn testimony about people within Trump's orbit taking actions they knew were illegal.

 

I would say that matters.

[Demongyz]

13 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

 

It's not just the violence on January 6th, it's everything that led up to it as well.

 

We now have Trump on tape committing a crime.

 

We also have sworn testimony about people within Trump's orbit taking actions they knew were illegal.

 

I would say that matters.

Perhaps.  At least they were attempting to take actions that were illegal.  I don't know if any of this matters much, pretty much everything that happens in DC is illegal.

Pennsylvania changed their voting procedures illegally according to their constitution.  Texas sued them and the Supreme Court wouldn't hear the suit.  I guess it's probably not within their scope, but I'm not a legal expert.  The fact of the matter is Trump lost and flailed around like a loser.  In my mind he can join Hillary and Al in the sore loser group and that is enough.

 

If we can find Trump caused the violence and tried to overthrow the government, great, other than that it's business as usual.

[ChiGoose]

9 minutes ago, Demongyz said:

If we can find Trump caused the violence and tried to overthrow the government, great, other than that it's business as usual.

 

I would certainly hope that the President of the United States committing a crime on a recorded phone call isn't "business as usual." Otherwise, Nixon really got screwed.

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 minute ago, ChiGoose said:

 

I would certainly hope that the President of the United States committing a crime on a recorded phone call isn't "business as usual." Otherwise, Nixon really got screwed.

Nixon was aware of the plans of his subordinates to break into the Democratic Committee office and they actually broke into the office.  And were arrested.  The focus of the investigation into his actions was more on the cover up of the truth rather than the pursuit of the truth itself.

 

Sure Trump's no Constitutional or legal scholar but from the sound of it all Trump directed or asked officials to do specific things which they declined and refused to do citing ethical and legal objections to his requests.  So they didn't break the law.  The vote counts and the electoral results in the States were certified. 

 

So does it all boil down to is it a crime to ask somebody to break the law regardless of the fact they either refuse or don't commit the act?  It sounds like the argument is the President asked me to do something I concluded was illegal and I said no.  Was Trump stupid?  Absolutely.  But is it criminal ?  That just seems weak to me given the world of politics today.   

[ChiGoose]

6 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

So does it all boil down to is it a crime to ask somebody to break the law regardless of the fact they either refuse or don't commit the act? 

 

It is a crime for more than one person to plan to commit a crime and then for at least one of them to take an act towards that purpose. A plan to overturn the election where one member of the group actively pressures people to take illegal actions meets a prima facie case under 18 U.S.C. § 371.

 

Additionally, the recorded phone call to Raffensperger meets the elements of GA Code § 21-2-604 (2016).

[Big Blitz]

2 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

 

If this was truly just a partisan witch hunt, any of these people could accept the invitation to testify and blow up the entire narrative of the Jan 6th committee.

 

 

 

 

 

You know how we know it is?

 

It is almost January 2023 and you people still have ............

 

Nothing..

 

It is almost TWO YEARS.  Let this stupidity sink in.  And how badly people following this sham are being played.  

 

Due Process in Congress means "we're going to drag this out for our supposed political convenience."

 

Deliberately in hopes that the Dems don't lose deep deep blue seats in the House.    

 

 

There were no crimes committed.  

 

Replace Trump's name with Obama in every single "allegation" in the latest summary here and you'd have Democrats calling this a big fat nothing burger and they all know it.  

 

Insurrection.......lol.  

 

Should be a slam dunk open and shut case.   

 

Instead it's becoming the Democrats Birth Certificate.  

 

 

 

[Westside]

It’s a sign of a desperate Democratic Party. It’s a witch hunt, an embarrassment to this country. Keep looking under every log maybe you’ll find something, though I doubt that will happen. 

[SoCal Deek]

I do a lot of work with school districts. At every board meeting the District’s legal counsel sits right there on the dais. His/her sole purpose is to inform the Board (who are in most cases not attorneys) if what they’re proposing or are even thinking about proposing is within the Board’s jurisdiction and/or the law. It doesn’t mean the attorney is in charge, but they are there to bounce ideas off of. All of this is done in plain sight of the public. Nobody goes to jail for opining about an idea. 
 

I realize this isn’t completely analogous but it’s quite similar, and I know most on here are rarely in these type of spitballing meetings. 

[BillsFanNC]

Make Kash Patel's testimony public. All of it. He's requested that they do so, but they won't.

 

We are after full transparency here after all, right?

 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by DRsGhost

[ChiGoose]

32 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I do a lot of work with school districts. At every board meeting the District’s legal counsel sits right there on the dais. His/her sole purpose is to inform the Board (who are in most cases not attorneys) if what they’re proposing or are even thinking about proposing is within the Board’s jurisdiction and/or the law. It doesn’t mean the attorney is in charge, but they are there to bounce ideas off of. All of this is done in plain sight of the public. Nobody goes to jail for opining about an idea. 
 

I realize this isn’t completely analogous but it’s quite similar, and I know most on here are rarely in these type of spitballing meetings. 

 

I think this is a somewhat helpful analogy. I would like you to consider the following addition:

 

They bounce ideas around and the attorney tells them one of the ideas is illegal. They keep pushing on it and the lawyer continues to respond that it is illegal and they have no basis for it. Afterwards, members of the board take actions pursuant to that idea they had been told was illegal.

 

What happens then?

[BillsFanNC]

https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/jan-6-capitolriot-murielbowser-nancypelosi/2021/12/27/id/1050123/

 

Two days before Jan. 6," Patel told "Spicer & Co.," we "were in the Oval Office ... [where] basically the president authorized 10 to 20,000 National Guards' men and women around the country if needed, and the law requires that authorization. So President Trump preemptively took that action.

 

"We then, the Department of Defense, went to Mayor Bowser, the Capitol Police, who are, of course, reporting to Nancy Pelosi and said, 'Look, we have the authorization, but we need the request under federal law to come from the mayor and the Capitol Police for National Guardsman on Jan. 6. They said 'no,' in writing."

 

...

 

Having run the Russia-gate investigation and doing proper congressional oversight," he adds, "I do think it's important for the American people to have ... the transcript ... and I've asked them repeatedly" to release it. "My lawyers, which cost me a fortune, have asked them repeatedly, and they just sort of kick the can down the road and say, 'You know, maybe we'll get to it' or something like that."

[Irv]

3 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

I've been busy, so I didn't get a chance to finish watching this until this morning. Hopefully won't take as long for today's hearing.

 

RECAP

 

Rusty Bowers (GOP Speaker of the Arizona House):

• Wanted Donald Trump to win a second term of office, but Joe Biden won the election in Arizona
• Despite Trump’s assertions otherwise, Bowers never told Trump that he won the election nor that the election was rigged.
• Rudy called Bowers saying that he had proof of fraud, including illegal immigrants and dead people voting. Bowers asked for the evidence but Rudy never provided it.
• Rudy wanted Bowers to hold an official committee meeting to remove the electors and replace them with Trump electors. Bowers told them that they were asking him to violate his oath.
• Bowers asked Rudy and Jenna Ellis for the names of people who voted illegally, but they never provided any evidence.
• Giuliani: “We have lots of theories but we don’t have any evidence”
• Nobody every provided Bowers with evidence of fraud to question the outcome in Arizona
• John Eastman told Bowers to decertify the electors but Bowers replied that this would violate both his oath to the constitution and to the state of Arizona
• Bowers has received 20,000 emails and 10,000 voicemails and texts. On Saturdays, groups will come by his home with video panel trucks and blaring loudspeakers proclaiming him to be a pedophile, pervert, and corrupt. This was when his daughter was gravely ill and living with him.
  • One man had a shirt with three bars on it, carried a pistol and threatened his neighbor.
  •  

Brad Raffensberger (Secretary of State of Georgia):

• Wanted Donald Trump to win the 2020 election, but Joe Biden won.
• Ballots were counted three times: scanned, hand recount, and scanned again. All results were consistent.
• 28,000 Georgians skipped the presidential election and voted down ballot.
• The GOP congressmen got 33,000 more votes than Trump.
• Trump claimed that 5,000 dead people voted and filed lawsuits that 10,315 did, but the actual number was four.
• Trump claimed that there were 66,000 underaged voters, but the actual number was zero (17-year-olds can register so long as they will be 18 by election day).
• Trump claimed 2,424 non-registered people voted: actually zero
• Trump claimed 2,056 felons voted but it was really fewer than 75
• Raffensberger offered to send Trump a link to the entire election counting video that would disprove his claims but Trump responded that he didn’t need it since he had a “better” link.
• Trump (audio from phone call): The real truth is that I won by 400,000 votes at least. So what are we going to do here folks?”
• Trump (audio from phone call): “I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state”
• Raffensberger was doxed and got threats from all over the country. His wife got threats that were sexual in nature. His daughter-in-law’s home was broken into.
• Raffensberger followed the law and the constitution. At the end of the day, Trump came up short.

 

Gabriel Sterling (COO in Georgia Secretary State of Georgia: in charge of voting systems and COVID voting):

• Received a call from a contact at Dominion who was audibly shaken. They were receiving threats.
• On the claim of suitcases full of ballots:
  • Investigated it and found it was normal ballot processing
  • If you watch the entire video, the election workers were under the impression that they got to go home around 10pm so they were packing up and putting ballots to be counted into tamper proof containers. The election monitors were still there.
  • The Secretary of State’s office called and told them to stay, and you can see the director slumping at his desk, not wanting to tell people they can’t go home. He tells them, and they take their coats off and resume counting.
• On claims of double counting:
  • Standard procedure for a miss-scan is to delete the count and rerun
  • Any issues would be discovered during the manual tally
  • Hand tallies can have a discrepancy of 1-2% but because of how Georgia runs elections, the hand tally was within 0.105% of the total votes cast and 0.0099% of the margin

 

Kenneth Chesebro (Trump Laywer) memo:

• Outlined a plan of competing slates of electors in the battleground states won by Biden. Then Pence can pick the Trump electors from those states.

 

Cassidy Hutchinson (Aide to Mark Meadows):

• Giuliani, Meadows, and some members of Congress were involved in the dual electors scheme
• White House counsel told them that the plan for alternate electors was not legally sound

 

Ronna Romney McDaniel (RNC Chair):

• Trump and Eastman called and told them it was important for the RNC to help with the dual electors.

 

Robert Sinners (Trump Campaign Staffer):

• We were useful idiots and rubes at that point [for working to get the dual electors]
• After hearing testimony from others on the campaign he was angry that nobody cared about putting people like him in jeopardy
• Would not have participated had he known the three main campaign lawyers were not on board

 

Laura Cox (Michigan Republican Party Chair):

• Was told the MI republican electors were planning to meet in the capitol and hide overnight so they could fulfill the law of casting their vote in the Michigan chambers

 

Documents from campaign:

• Electors had to cast ballots in secret
• Electors asked for the campaign to pay legal fees
• Fake electors signed certificates that they were the correct electors
• Wisconsin officials texted that the Trump campaign wanted someone to fly their fake electors docs to DC
• Staffer for Sen. Ron Johnson texted Pence staffer that Johnson wanted to hand deliver fake electors. Pence staffer said do not give them

 

Audio of call between Trump and Francis Watson (GA investigator):

• “I won by hundreds of thousands of votes. It wasn’t close”
• “Whatever you can do Frances it would be, it’s a great thing. It’s an important thing for the country, so important. You have no idea, it’s so important and I very much appreciate it.”
• “Do you think they’ll be working after Christmas, to keep it going fast? Because, you know, we have that date of the 6th, which is a very important date.”

 

Shaye Moss (Fulton Country department of registration and elections):

• In a decade of service, she had never received threats before
• Loved her job because she was told by her grandmother how important it was to vote and that people in her family didn’t always have that chance.
• Giuliani called out her and her mother as part of a scheme to run ballots through multiple times. This was not true
• Giuliani said they were passing around USB drives like cocaine. It was a ginger mint.
• Checked Facebook and there were a lot of death threats, telling her that she’ll be in jail with her mother. “Be glad it’s 2020, not 1920”
• Her mother, Ruby Freeman, helped with the election.
• On Trump call to Raffensberger:
  • “We had at least 18,000, that’s on tape, we had them counted very painstakingly, 18,000 voters having to do with Ruby Freeman, she’s a vote scammer, a professional vote scammer and hustler.”
  • Moss: Felt it was her fault for wanting to be an election worker. Felt it was her fault to put her family in this situation where they were now getting threats
• Doesn't want anyone to know her name. She won’t go places with her mom in case she shouts her name. She won’t go out at all. Gained 60lbs. Second guess everything that she does. It has affected her life in a major way, all because of lies.
• People showed up at her grandmother’s house. Grandmother called her screaming at the top of her lungs that people were at her home. They knocked on her door, she opened it and they pushed their way into the house claiming they were making a citizen’s arrest, looking for Shaye and her mom. Shaye had to tell her not to go out or answer the door
  • At night, people would continually send pizzas over and over and she was expected to pay
• Nobody from the video is still a permanent election worker or supervisor. Shaye left her position.

 

Ruby Freeman’s recorded testimony:

• Used to wear a shirt with her name on it but now she won’t tell people her name. She’s worried about being identified or having to give her name in public. She’s lost her name and her sense of security
• Stayed away from her home for two months for her safety
• “There is nowhere I feel safe. Nowhere. Do you know how it feels to have the President of the United States target you? The President of the United States is supposed to represent every American, not to target on. But he targeted me, Lady Ruby, a small business owner, a mother, a proud American citizen who stands up to help Fulton County run an election in the middle of the pandemic.”

 

TAKEAWAYS:

 

This hearing mostly focused on the dual electors scheme and the threats made to the people involved in the elections. On the latter, I don't have much to say other than it's heartbreaking and that forcing people out of their jobs through threats and replacing them with the kinds of people making those threats is a danger to our country. Especially since those jobs are responsible for our elections.

 

On the dual electors scheme, it was clearly illegal, they knew it was illegal, and they tried it anyway. Some of the electors signed affidavits that they were the true electors. Those people should be prosecuted.

 

As to Trump himself, I've thought that Georgia has been his most pressing legal exposure and the evidence here definitely puts him in jeopardy. He is on the record saying he won the election by 400,000 votes but that he just wanted Raffensberger to add 11,800 to his tally. This is telling the Secretary of State to input a number he knows is false (because he thinks the real number is about 400,000 more) and meets the prima facie case for election fraud under Georgia law. That does not mean he will be indicted, or if he is, that he'll be found guilty, but this seems pretty clear to be a crime.

 

Finally, a lot of the pushback I've seen here on the hearing is that it is partisan because it's only the people who believe the Democrats. Given the actual witnesses, the two sides really seem to be who will testify under oath and who will not (which should give you a hint as to who is more believable). But most of the people testifying are Republicans that wanted Trump to win, people who worked to get Trump elected, or people appointed to their positions by Trump.

 

Here is the list of some of the witnesses and authors of documents so far:

• Jared Kushner
• Ivanka Trump
• Bill Barr
• Jeffrey Rosen (Acting Attorney General)
• Richard Donoghue (Acting Deputy Attorney General)
• BJ Pak (US Attorney for the Northern District of Georgia)
• Bill Stepien (Trump Campaign Manager)
• Jason Miller (Trump Campaign Senior Advisor)
• Matt Morgan (Trump Campaign General Counsel)
• Alex Cannon (Trump Campaign Lawyer)
• John Eastman (Trump Campaign Lawyer)
• Kenneth Chesebro (Trump Campaign Lawyer)
• Robert Sinners (Trump Campaign Staffer)
• Eric Herschmann (Trump White House Lawyer)
• Derek Lyons (Counselor to the President)
• Sarah Matthews (Trump White House Deputy Press Secretary)
• Mark Short (Pence's Chief of Staff)
• Greg Jacobs (Pence's General Counsel)
• Ben Williamson (Aide to Mark Meadows)
• Cassidy Hutchinson (Aide to Mark Meadows)
• Ronna Romney McDaniel (RNC Chair)
• Brad Raffensberger (GOP Georgia Secretary of State)
• Gabriel Sterling (GOP COO for Georgia Secretary of State)
• Shaye Moss (Georgia election worker)
• Ruby Freeman (Georgia election worker)
• Rusty Bowers (GOP Speaker of the Arizona House)
• Al Scmidt (GOP City Commissioner of Philadelphia)
• Laure Cox (Michigan GOP Chair)
• Ben Ginsburg (GOP Election Lawyer)
• Michael Luttig (Conservative judge)
• Chris Stirewalt (Fox News Politics Editor)
• Sean Hannity

 

And here are just some of the people the committee has subpoenaed that we haven't heard from:

• House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy
• Rep. Mo Brooks
• Rep. Ronny Jackson
• Rep. Andy Biggs
• Rep. Barry Loudermilk
• Rep. Jim Jordan
• Rep. Scott Perry
• Jeffrey Clark (Acting Assistant AG)
• Kenneth Klukowski (Senior Counsel to Jeffrey Clark)
• Mark Meadows (WH Chief of Staff)
• Christopher Liddell (WH Deputy Chief of Staff)
• Stephen Miller (WH Senior Advisor)
• Michael Flynn (National Security Advisor)
• Peter Navarro (WH Trade Advisor)
• Daniel Scavino (WH Deputy Chief of Staff for Comms)
• Judd Deere (Deputy WH Press Secretary)
• Kayleigh McEnany (WH Press Secretary)
• John McEntee (WH Personnel Director)
• Brian Jack (WH Director of Political Affairs)
• Kash Patel (Chief of Staff to Def. Sec.)
• Nicholas Luna (Trump's Personal Assistant)
• Molly Michael (Special Assistant to the President)
• Max Miller (WH and campaign staffer)
• Keith Kellogg (Pence's National Security Advisor)
• Steve Bannon
• Jenna Ellis (Trump Campaign Attorney)
• Boris Epshteyn (Trump Campaign Strategic Advisor)
• Angela McCallum (Trump Campaign National Executive Assistant)
• Sidney Powell (Trump Campaign Lawyer)
• Michael Roman (Trump Campaign Director of Election Day Ops)
• Gary Michael Brown (Trump Campaign Deputy Director of Election Day Ops)
• Robert Peede Jr. (Met with Trump on Jan 4 to plan rally)
• Kimberly Guilfoyle

 

If this was truly just a partisan witch hunt, any of these people could accept the invitation to testify and blow up the entire narrative of the Jan 6th committee. But most of them are fighting as hard as they can to avoid testifying under oath for some reason...

 

Whoops.  Fell asleep reading OP's post.   ZZZZZzzzzzzz  What a mess.  

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Irv

[Doc]

19 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

I think this is a somewhat helpful analogy. I would like you to consider the following addition:

 

They bounce ideas around and the attorney tells them one of the ideas is illegal. They keep pushing on it and the lawyer continues to respond that it is illegal and they have no basis for it. Afterwards, members of the board take actions pursuant to that idea they had been told was illegal.

 

What happens then?

 

Say a guy goes around the Capitol for 2 days saying "we gotta break into the Capitol," is there when people do break into the Capitol, I'd say that's a crime.  But according to the J6 committee, specifically Adam Kinzinger, merely telling people to do something isn't a crime, much less when they don't actually do it.

[ChiGoose]

12 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Say a guy goes around the Capitol for 2 days saying "we gotta break into the Capitol," is there when people do break into the Capitol, I'd say that's a crime.  But according to the J6 committee, specifically Adam Kinzinger, merely telling people to do something isn't a crime, much less when they don't actually do it.

 

I am not referencing the people on the capitol grounds. I am referencing the plans to have dual electors and to have Mike Pence pick the winner of the election.

[Demongyz]

21 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

 

I am not referencing the people on the capitol grounds. I am referencing the plans to have dual electors and to have Mike Pence pick the winner of the election.

This happened in 1960 and it wasn't a big deal then. 

 

Similarly, in Hawaii, official results showed Nixon winning by a small margin of 141 votes, with the state being called for him early Wednesday morning. Acting Governor James Kealoha certified the Republican electors, and they cast Hawaii's three electoral votes for Nixon. However, clear discrepancies existed in the official electoral tabulations, and Democrats petitioned for a recount in Hawaii circuit court.[76] The court challenge was still ongoing at the time of the Electoral Count Act's safe harbor deadline, but Democratic electors still convened at the ʻIolani Palace on the constitutionally-mandated date of December 19 and cast their votes for Kennedy.[76] The recount, completed before Christmas, resulted in Kennedy being declared winner by 115 votes. On December 30, the circuit court ruled that Hawaii's three electoral votes should go to Kennedy. It was decided that a new certificate was necessary, with only two days remaining before Congress convened on January 6, 1961, to count and certify the Electoral College votes. A letter to Congress saying a certificate was on the way was rushed out by registered air mail. Both Democrat and Republican electoral votes from Hawaii were presented for counting on January 6, 1961, and Vice President Nixon who presided over the certification, graciously, and saying "without the intent of establishing a precedent",[77] requested unanimous consent that the Democratic votes for Kennedy to be counted.[78][79]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_United_States_presidential_election

 

Nixon picked the Dems against himself.  What a champ!

[Jauronimo]

2 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

You know how we know it is?

 

It is almost January 2023 and you people still have ............

 

Nothing..

 

It is almost TWO YEARS.  Let this stupidity sink in.  And how badly people following this sham are being played.  

 

Due Process in Congress means "we're going to drag this out for our supposed political convenience."

 

Deliberately in hopes that the Dems don't lose deep deep blue seats in the House.    

 

 

There were no crimes committed.  

 

Replace Trump's name with Obama in every single "allegation" in the latest summary here and you'd have Democrats calling this a big fat nothing burger and they all know it.  

 

Insurrection.......lol.  

 

Should be a slam dunk open and shut case.   

 

Instead it's becoming the Democrats Birth Certificate.  

 

 

 

And you'd be looking or summary executions on the white house lawn.  

[BillsFanNC]

10 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

And you'd be looking or summary executions on the white house lawn.  

 

WTF is this nonsense?

 

Trump has absolutely broken so many permanently.

 

Seek help.

[BillStime]

1 minute ago, DRsGhost said:

 

WTF is this nonsense?

 

Trump has absolutely broken so many permanently.

 

Seek help.

Mmmmhmmmm - lmao

 

Anyhow:

 

 

 

DR - do you work for Matt?