How will Trump’s tax INCREASE affect you?

[BillStime]

 

Edited March 27 by BillStime

[Tenhigh]

[Buffarukus]

holy crap. the dems arent playin around. that campaign is going to be brutal. rich and poor arent the same, the less you make the more skin in the game. ohhh man its catchy too. how bout this democrats 2022 this party has got it locked down! oh thats good. what on earth can republicans hit them back with? nothin! thats what! little nitpicking chumps dont have a thing, right billstime. the social work interns have reimagined these streets into peace festivals. people losing all this weight from jogging for their lives everywhere in the city. avoiding needless expensive crap like food and shelter.  never been better! can't wait for the blue monsooooooon!!!!

[Doc Brown]

Aren't the founders of this group former Republicans?  Is there anything in the tax plan that will raise taxes on the middle class that I don't know about this or next year?

[BillStime]

6 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Aren't the founders of this group former Republicans?  Is there anything in the tax plan that will raise taxes on the middle class that I don't know about this or next year?

 

 

[Chef Jim]

6 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Aren't the founders of this group former Republicans?  Is there anything in the tax plan that will raise taxes on the middle class that I don't know about this or next year?

It’s a Twit For Brains post that has no base in reality but only based in feelz. Don’t waste your time. 
 

BTW one of the biggest tax benefits of the TCJA went to lower and middle class folks.  No one EVER brings this up other than me.  Thanks Dinald! 
 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Chef Jim

[SoCal Deek]

29 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

It’s a Twit For Brains post that has no base in reality but only based in feelz. Don’t waste your time. 
 

BTW one of the biggest tax benefits of the TCJA went to lower and middle class folks.  No one EVER brings this up other than me.  Thanks Dinald! 
 

I’ll second that! Tax the Rich….my arse! 

[BillStime]

 

 

Fox News’ John Roberts Crushes Sen. Rick Scott’s Attempt to Dismiss His Agenda as ‘Democrat Talking Points': ‘It’s in Your Plan!’

 

 

 

Idiots

[Chef Jim]

6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’ll second that! Tax the Rich….my arse! 

The doubling of the standard deduction helped renters and was a hit to wealthier people along with SALT.  Those that rent have been screwed out of the ability to deduct mortgage interest which can be tens of thousands of dollars a year.  We had just sold our house and was renting for a couple years until we bought.  And we paid cash so even if it was available we’d have no interest to deduct.  The doubling of the standard deduction gave renters an immediate $12k a year additional deduction (for married couples) which is huge. 

[BuffaninSarasota]

A-ha, the go-to "paying your fair share" canard ....

[SoCal Deek]

36 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

The doubling of the standard deduction helped renters and was a hit to wealthier people along with SALT.  Those that rent have been screwed out of the ability to deduct mortgage interest which can be tens of thousands of dollars a year.  We had just sold our house and was renting for a couple years until we bought.  And we paid cash so even if it was available we’d have no interest to deduct.  The doubling of the standard deduction gave renters an immediate $12k a year additional deduction (for married couples) which is huge. 

There's so much about the 'ol "Trump Tax Cut" complaint that I've never understood.  If a person makes $1,000,000 and has their upper rate cut by from 37.5 down to 35% that leaves less than $25,000 in their pocket to spend, invest, or save. Assuming they also pay state, property and an assortment of sales tax...that increased their net from $500,000 to something below $525,000.  So?  How does that harm anyone else?  Your federal taxes don't fund any of the things most leftists are traditionally whining about (teachers, cops, firemen, social security, etc.). Doesn't the high wage earner use the money to buy things that are made and sold by the middle and lower class? And, if instead the high wage earner chooses to save it, or invest it, good for them. Please don't tell me there's an expectation that Nancy, Mitch and Chuck are going to use the extra money to pay down the debt! 

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

It’s a Twit For Brains post that has no base in reality but only based in feelz. Don’t waste your time. 
 

BTW one of the biggest tax benefits of the TCJA went to lower and middle class folks.  No one EVER brings this up other than me.  Thanks Dinald! 
 

I’m just confused because it’s a former Republican group.  They doubled the standard deductible so of course that helps.  I’d like to see the SALT deductions reinstated as they had to cut those to get the bill through due to reconciliation.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

I’m just confused because it’s a former Republican group.  They doubled the standard deductible so of course that helps.  I’d like to see the SALT deductions reinstated as they had to cut those to get the bill through due to reconciliation.

Why do you want the SALT tax deduction reinstated?  I’m not looking for a fight, I was on the wrong side of that when the rules changed (at least as it relates to keeping more of my income), just wondering why you feel as you do?  
 

 

[Doc Brown]

7 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Why do you want the SALT tax deduction reinstated?  I’m not looking for a fight, I was on the wrong side of that when the rules changed (at least as it relates to keeping more of my income), just wondering why you feel as you do?  
 

 

Because eventually when wealthy people leave for red states the poor and middle class in blue states are left holding the bag.

[Chef Jim]

46 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Because eventually when wealthy people leave for red states the poor and middle class in blue states are left holding the bag.

How will SALT have wealthy people leaving for red states?  It’s part of the federal tax code. Are you thinking wealthy people stayed in typically higher taxed blue states for the tax deduction?  

[Doc Brown]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

How will SALT have wealthy people leaving for red states?  It’s part of the federal tax code. Are you thinking wealthy people stayed in typically higher taxed blue states for the tax deduction?  

Capping the deduction gives them an incentive to leave.  Yes.

[Chef Jim]

4 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Capping the deduction gives them an incentive to leave.  Yes.

I find it hard to believe that a wealthy person is choosing to live in a high tax state because those high taxes are a federal tax deduction.  
 

Maybe blue states should come up with some tax incentives to get the wealthy people to want to stay and maybe evens attract some wealthy folks from other states. 

[Doc Brown]

4 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

I find it hard to believe that a wealthy person is choosing to live in a high tax state because those high taxes are a federal tax deduction.  
 

Maybe blue states should come up with some tax incentives to get the wealthy people to want to stay and maybe evens attract some wealthy folks from other states. 

It's easy if you try.  Just another reason to leave a place you've lived your whole life to a warmer more tax friendly state.

[Westside]

6 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

It's easy if you try.  Just another reason to leave a place you've lived your whole life to a warmer more tax friendly state.

Do you think people should be punished for leaving a high tax rate blue state for a lower tax red state?

[ALF]

3 minutes ago, Westside said:

Do you think people should be punished for leaving a high tax rate blue state for a lower tax red state?

 

No , but no state income tax like Florida and Texas should pick up more of the cost of hurricane damage . The rest of the country subsidizes them plus all there military bases.

[Westside]

7 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

No , but no state income tax like Florida and Texas should pick up more of the cost of hurricane damage . The rest of the country subsidizes them plus all there military bases.

I don’t know how much the state pays for clean up of natural disasters, but I’m sure the high tax states receive plenty of disaster funds for flooding, storms and such. The military bases are placed strategically for defense of the country, not by tax rates. So I’m not sure what that has to do with anything.

 

I keep hearing about how blue states carry the load for most of the US economy, why would people leaving for warmer lower taxed states be a problem for the economically advantaged blue states?

[ALF]

2 minutes ago, Westside said:

I don’t know how much the state pays for clean up of natural disasters, but I’m sure the high tax states receive plenty of disaster funds for flooding, storms and such. The military bases are placed strategically for defense of the country, not by tax rates. So I’m not sure what that has to do with anything.

 

I keep hearing about how blue states carry the load for most of the US economy, why would people leaving for warmer lower taxed states be a problem for the economically advantaged blue states?

 

 

They can go wherever they want , no problem at all. 

[SoCal Deek]

40 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

No , but no state income tax like Florida and Texas should pick up more of the cost of hurricane damage . The rest of the country subsidizes them plus all there military bases.

A military base, like a post office, is on federal land and staffed with federal employees. The rest of the country isn’t subsidizing anything. (Not a good example.)

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

8 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Because eventually when wealthy people leave for red states the poor and middle class in blue states are left holding the bag.

Thanks. 
 

In the case of property taxes, I think for many it ultimately boils down to a few questions:

 

1.  Is there sufficient value received for the cost incurred?   
2. Projecting forward, what’s the tax situation going to look like in those golden retirement years? 
3.  What is the trend as it relates to population growth or decline with respect to the tax burden? 
4. Access to medical care an individual feels most comfortable with, most particularly later in life;
4.  Given questions 1, 2, and 3, 4, is there a place that offers a better, more equitable option? 
 

One thing I found particularly frustrating occurred during the pandemic.   There was quite a bit of pressure on business to shut down/close and/or give back to the community.   Late fees were eliminated, an eviction moratorium was set in place, banks, cable companies, credit card companies all called upon to do the right thing. 
 

However, when it came to property/school tax….nothing.   No temporary waiver of late fees.  No payment plans to help the people.  In my case, for the property I own, the bills arrived quite promptly with insets telling the consumer that regular bill pay options were suspended because the town offices were closed.  The bills also prominently indicated the substantial extra charges due if payment was one or more days late.   That’s more serf-king relationship than anything else in context, and an important consideration for me.  

 

When I consider my future in this particular blue state, and consider my 5 bullet points, the only real consideration is option 1.  That’s all about access to family and has very little to do with the state, high tax rate and deductions to make me feel like I’m getting a good deal. 
 

I appreciate the reply.  
 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

We definitely need a class on taxes in this country. Maybe continuing education credit for taxpayers…and/or voters. In general:

 

Federal income tax is supposed to pay for the military to defend us all. 

 

State income tax is supposed to pay for education.

 

Sales and property taxes are supposed to pay for police and fire. 
 

Those simple principles have been virtually destroyed by our elected officials who knowingly co-mingle funds in the hopes of wooing votes.

[OrangeBills]

8 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

How will SALT have wealthy people leaving for red states?  It’s part of the federal tax code. Are you thinking wealthy people stayed in typically higher taxed blue states for the tax deduction?  

 

Um, really?  It costs a LOT of money that one could keep just by shifting from place to place

 

7% State Income Tax, obviously that's $7,000 per $100,000, and really kicks in for those over $500,000, so that's $35,000 minimum that you have to pay AND don't get back in Federal.

 

Then absurd property taxes, say $25,000 per year...so that's $60,000 per year which would probably cost you ~$10,000 in Florida or Texas, and before you were able to offset Federal Income but no more.  Yes, Trump really screwed the Blue States, but they're in a bind because to unwind it they'd be "lowering taxes on the Wealthy and raising them on the unwealthy"

 

Of course, all this does is highlight that many, many of Trump's programs were actually some of the better Democrat ideas just actually executed.  But he sent mean Tweets so Dems are upside-down on themselves

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, OrangeBills said:

 

Um, really?  It costs a LOT of money that one could keep just by shifting from place to place

 

7% State Income Tax, obviously that's $7,000 per $100,000, and really kicks in for those over $500,000, so that's $35,000 minimum that you have to pay AND don't get back in Federal.

 

Then absurd property taxes, say $25,000 per year...so that's $60,000 per year which would probably cost you ~$10,000 in Florida or Texas, and before you were able to offset Federal Income but no more.  Yes, Trump really screwed the Blue States, but they're in a bind because to unwind it they'd be "lowering taxes on the Wealthy and raising them on the unwealthy"

 

Of course, all this does is highlight that many, many of Trump's programs were actually some of the better Democrat ideas just actually executed.  But he sent mean Tweets so Dems are upside-down on themselves

See my post above and you’ll understand how this got so screwed up. If the various levels of government would stick to those basic principles and priorities we wouldn’t be bouncing back and forth with tax policy changes every time the White House changes hands. 

[Chef Jim]

19 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:

 

Um, really?  It costs a LOT of money that one could keep just by shifting from place to place

 

7% State Income Tax, obviously that's $7,000 per $100,000, and really kicks in for those over $500,000, so that's $35,000 minimum that you have to pay AND don't get back in Federal.

 

Then absurd property taxes, say $25,000 per year...so that's $60,000 per year which would probably cost you ~$10,000 in Florida or Texas, and before you were able to offset Federal Income but no more.  Yes, Trump really screwed the Blue States, but they're in a bind because to unwind it they'd be "lowering taxes on the Wealthy and raising them on the unwealthy"

 

Of course, all this does is highlight that many, many of Trump's programs were actually some of the better Democrat ideas just actually executed.  But he sent mean Tweets so Dems are upside-down on themselves

 

You lumped in a lot of taxes there.  We're only talking about SALT.  So for someone making $500,000 now they lose a $35k tax deduction.  if they are married they gained $12k via the doubling of the standard deduction.  So it's actually only a $23k reduction in fed deductions.  At that income they are in the 35% marginal rate.  That is about an $8,000 in additional taxes.  It could cost double that to move and there is no guarantee that property taxes will be lower to wherever they are moving.  So this is my point when I say SALT pisses wealthy people off but will most likely not prompt them to pack up and move. 

[ALF]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

A military base, like a post office, is on federal land and staffed with federal employees. The rest of the country isn’t subsidizing anything. (Not a good example.)

 

Do military bases employ off base civilians and buy goods and services from each community?  Do the military stationed there patronize off base locations ? Bases are indeed a benefit to where they are located .

[OrangeBills]

47 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

You lumped in a lot of taxes there.  We're only talking about SALT.  So for someone making $500,000 now they lose a $35k tax deduction.  if they are married they gained $12k via the doubling of the standard deduction.  So it's actually only a $23k reduction in fed deductions.  At that income they are in the 35% marginal rate.  That is about an $8,000 in additional taxes.  It could cost double that to move and there is no guarantee that property taxes will be lower to wherever they are moving.  So this is my point when I say SALT pisses wealthy people off but will most likely not prompt them to pack up and move. 

 

Yeah, but I was using $500,000 income to be diplomatic...that's barely middle class in many areas of Northeast Blue States.

 

It's a much bigger impact than that, ESPECIALLY in a virtual work-from-anywhere world

 

The Northeast is doomed long-term I think

[Chef Jim]

14 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:

 

Yeah, but I was using $500,000 income to be diplomatic...that's barely middle class in many areas of Northeast Blue States.

 

It's a much bigger impact than that, ESPECIALLY in a virtual work-from-anywhere world

 

The Northeast is doomed long-term I think

Yes and double it for a million. Someone making a million is not moving from CA to TX to save $16k a year due to SALT. They are moving to TX to save $100k in state taxes. My whole point when I questioned @Doc Brown  
 

 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

Yes and double it for a million. Someone making a million is not moving from CA to TX to save $16k a year due to SALT. They are moving to TX to save $100k in state taxes. My whole point when I questioned @Doc Brown  
 

 

The vast vast majority of people are moving to get far away from the California politics. 

[OrangeBills]

3 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Yes and double it for a million. Someone making a million is not moving from CA to TX to save $16k a year due to SALT. They are moving to TX to save $100k in state taxes. My whole point when I questioned @Doc Brown  
 

 

 

I don't know where you're getting that math, but it's way more than $16k a year.  I'll just leave it at that, we're all friends here

[Chef Jim]

10 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:

 

I don't know where you're getting that math, but it's way more than $16k a year.  I'll just leave it at that, we're all friends here

Math time!  
 

I just doubled my $500k calculation which is not exact but let’s go with that. 
 

$500k at a 7% state tax rate is $35,000 in state taxes that was a fed tax deduction.  I reduced that by the additional $12k they now get via the doubling of the standard deduction.  So it’s actually $23k fed tax deduction. If they are in 35% marginal rate that $23k becomes $8,000 less in federal taxes.  
 

😁

16 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The vast vast majority of people are moving to get far away from the California politics. 

Not those that I know.  It’s both!  😁

[sherpa]

3 hours ago, Westside said:

 The military bases are placed strategically for defense of the country, not by tax rates. So I’m not sure what that has to do with anything.

 

 

Not to quibble, but that is absolutely not true.

Other than the need for major Naval bases to be located in deep water ports, the location of military bases is largely a jobs program to patronize senators in the states they are located.

They are often quid pro quo rewards for votes on various issues.

Obviously the availability of reasonably priced land is a consideration, but there is almost no strategic value in their location.

[Chef Jim]

40 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:

 

I don't know where you're getting that math, but it's way more than $16k a year.  I'll just leave it at that, we're all friends here

And you may be confusing a tax deduction which is a dollar for dollar reduction of your taxable income vs a tax credit which is a dollar for dollar reduction of the taxes owed. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Doc Brown]

5 hours ago, Westside said:

Do you think people should be punished for leaving a high tax rate blue state for a lower tax red state?

No.

2 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

Yes and double it for a million. Someone making a million is not moving from CA to TX to save $16k a year due to SALT. They are moving to TX to save $100k in state taxes. My whole point when I questioned @Doc Brown  

That's faulty logic because you were already paying that much in state taxes before the 2017 TCJA.

[Tiberius]

Thank you senator Scott for the much needed support. We Democrats thank you. 

 

 

[ALF]

39 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Thank you senator Scott for the much needed support. We Democrats thank you. 

 

 

 

Opinion | Rick Scott tax plan bad news for retirees

So imagine my surprise when I saw that Senator Rick Scott recently introduced a plan for the Republican Party that would raise taxes on nearly half of all Americans, forcing seniors and working class families to pay more when they file their taxes every year. His plan also includes provisions that could sunset Medicare and Social Security, jeopardizing the health care and retirement benefits that millions of Florida seniors have spent their entire lives earning.

 

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/opinion/2022/04/18/senator-rick-scott-plan-would-force-seniors-pay-more-taxes/7333900001/

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

No.

That's faulty logic because you were already paying that much in state taxes before the 2017 TCJA.

Nope. TCLA has zero effect on your state tax bill. My point is elimination of the deductibility of your state tax will not affect your fed tax bill enough to consider a move.   Now the elimination of your state tax altogether would make a relocation sensible but SALT didn’t change that.