Doc Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 Can Saffold play RG? And I think Bates will be back on a 1-year deal, at least. None of the other teams he visited have a prayer of making the SB next year and he can cash-in next off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 31 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Agree with the playmakers in Crowder and OJ, but I’m a little skeptical of the idea of relying on Saffold, and a rookie interior lineman as their plan for improvement upfront… unfortunately that’s the alternative when you invest so much into your defense…. Hopefully whoever steps in is an upgrade to what they had last season. I hear ya. I’ll be skeptical on RG. Saffold wasn’t my first choice but I feel that he’ll be ok. He’s one of the best short yardage OGs in the league. We should be getting 2-5 yards on every Qb sneak. I expect us to play to his strengths. RG, If it’s a 1st or 2nd rd pick, I’ll be more comfortable with it but it depends on the player. If they turn into Cody Ford, we may have screwed up our title hopes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, NewEra said: I hear ya. I’ll be skeptical on RG. Saffold wasn’t my first choice but I feel that he’ll be ok. He’s one of the best short yardage OGs in the league. We should be getting 2-5 yards on every Qb sneak. I expect us to play to his strengths. RG, If it’s a 1st or 2nd rd pick, I’ll be more comfortable with it but it depends on the player. If they turn into Cody Ford, we may have screwed up our title hopes If they let Bates walk and draft a RG in Round 1 it will be a sad development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor26 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 26 minutes ago, Saint Doug said: So far Beane has been relatively neglectful of his number 1 priority of getting Josh protection. They definitely need to add at least 1 IOL who can play both guard spots and center and a tackle who can also play guard in the draft, especially if they lose Bates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 Should've tendered him higher. He gone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 22, 2022 Author Share Posted March 22, 2022 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Doc said: Can Saffold play RG? And I think Bates will be back on a 1-year deal, at least. None of the other teams he visited have a prayer of making the SB next year and he can cash-in next off-season. He said that he can play either side but Beane indicated he will be next to Dion and he said he’s been told LG 10 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: If they let Bates walk and draft a RG in Round 1 it will be a sad development. Why would they need to replace a backup level OG with a 1st rd pick. Mind you I don’t mind a G at 25 because the Bills have not invested at all at G in the draft except for late round picks. Late 1st is a great place to hopefully take a starting caliber G. But bates is not really a starter. He had to play like 2.5 games by default. Edited March 22, 2022 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 23 minutes ago, Doc said: Can Saffold play RG? And I think Bates will be back on a 1-year deal, at least. None of the other teams he visited have a prayer of making the SB next year and he can cash-in next off-season. I think for a young guy looking for financial security from his "Not For Long" career, he can't afford sentiment or concern for championships. If he gets the chance for more guaranteed money and more $$ this year, he has to take it, because all these guys are one injury away from having to fight their way back onto a roster (Boettger, Zimmer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 22, 2022 Author Share Posted March 22, 2022 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think for a young guy looking for financial security from his "Not For Long" career, he can't afford sentiment or concern for championships. If he gets the chance for more guaranteed money and more $$ this year, he has to take it, because all these guys are one injury away from having to fight their way back onto a roster (Boettger, Zimmer) That’s exactly what Beane says about these guys. Go out and find the best deal you can. You’ve earned that right. If you don’t find something great you can come back at X amount. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: He said that he can play either side but Beane indicated he will be next to Dion and he said he’s been told LG Kinda figured. I guess the question is: can Bates play RG? It might be why they allowed him to leave they feel he can’t do it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 10 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: If they let Bates walk and draft a RG in Round 1 it will be a sad development. If they select a Guard with the 25th pick, it will have nothing to do with whether or not Bates stays. Bates is a good backup. He is not the future at LG or RG. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Why would they need to replace a backup level OG with a 1st rd pick. Mind you I don’t mind a G at 25 because the Bills have not invested at all at G in the draft except for late round picks. Late 1st is a great place to take a G Wasn't Ford a high 2nd round investment? Not that I'm saying he was a GOOD investment at this point, mind you - but the point is, we can't say the Bills have not invested at all in G except for late round picks, when they did invest a 2nd on Ford. I agree we need a good draft investment in G, but not to "replace Bates" 3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: But bates is not really a starter. He had to play like 2.5 games by default. I like Bates, who started 6 games (one he didn't play very long) if we count the playoffs - and why wouldn't we count the playoffs? I think the OL played better with him at LG. Nevertheless, it's not a huge sample to use as a basis for counting on a guy as a long term OL starter, and neither is a 1 yr contract to an older vet (Saffold). So I think we'd better be making another Serious Draft Investment at G. I think the thinking about "oh no we need a high draft pick to replace Bates" sees there as being some sort of coaching grudge or stupidity or oversight which had Bates starting the season as #3 on the depth chart and only playing after the 2 guys ahead of him got hurt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 6 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: If they select a Guard with the 25th pick, it will have nothing to do with whether or not Bates stays. Bates is a good backup. He is not the future at LG or RG. Agree with that. But there is zero reason to draft a guard in round 1 like ever. Doing so while also losing a potential cheap depth option would be two mistakes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 22, 2022 Author Share Posted March 22, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Wasn't Ford a high 2nd round investment? Not that I'm saying he was a GOOD investment at this point, mind you - but the point is, we can't say the Bills have not invested at all in G except for late round picks, when they did invest a 2nd on Ford. I agree we need a good draft investment in G, but not to "replace Bates" I like Bates, who started 6 games (one he didn't play very long) if we count the playoffs - and why wouldn't we count the playoffs? I think the OL played better with him at LG. Nevertheless, it's not a huge sample to use as a basis for counting on a guy as a long term OL starter, and neither is a 1 yr contract to an older vet (Saffold). So I think we'd better be making another Serious Draft Investment at G. I think the thinking about "oh no we need a high draft pick to replace Bates" sees there as being some sort of coaching grudge or stupidity or oversight which had Bates starting the season as #3 on the depth chart and only playing after the 2 guys ahead of him got hurt. Ford was drafted to be a RT 15 minutes ago, Doc said: Kinda figured. I guess the question is: can Bates play RG? It might be why they allowed him to leave they feel he can’t do it as well. Yes he can. He can actually play any position on the OL which is why the Bills traded for him. Bates really is a great 3rd guard, or swing guard. He has good technique, but rarely pancakes defenders. The Bills really need a push on the offensive line to convert 3rd-and-short. That's why they got Rodger Saffold. Edited March 22, 2022 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 15 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Ford was drafted to be a RT Hmmm, I see your point now, but I'll have to work through how I think about it. 15 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Yes he can. He can actually play any position on the OL which is why the Bills traded for him. Bates really is a great 3rd guard, or swing guard. He has good technique, but rarely pancakes defenders. The Bills really need a push on the offensive line to convert 3rd-and-short. That's why they got Rodger Saffold. I don't know who this guy is, but he seems impressed with Bates: On the other hand, he doesn't seem to have too much insight into the Bills roster: For those unfamiliar, James Daniels is a former 2nd round pick by the Bears who started 48 of 54 games for the Bears (had a pec tear one season). He just signed a three-year, $26.5 million contract with the Steelers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said: For whatever reason they have a really tough time figuring out what to do with guards. Ford, Teller, now Bates - can you imagine if they let Bates leave and he, like Teller, becomes elite elsewhere? And they're again looking for a young guard? Cannot understand the difficulty they have evaluating their own players at IOL. It’s just stupid coaching nepotism with Feliciano, D. Williams, and extending Spain. It’s really annoying and if there is a wart here, it’s the way they have really screwed that up. And Bates is going to be very good, whether here or somewhere else. He and Ike Boettger should have been our starting guards last year from the get go imo. 6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Hmmm, I see your point now, but I'll have to work through how I think about it. I don't know who this guy is, but he seems impressed with Bates: On the other hand, he doesn't seem to have too much insight into the Bills roster: For those unfamiliar, James Daniels is a former 2nd round pick by the Bears who started 48 of 54 games for the Bears (had a pec tear one season). He just signed a three-year, $26.5 million contract with the Steelers. Daniels is better than Bates, but the difference is not astronomical. They are pretty similar in terms of athleticism etc. Daniels is actually younger but has a lot more experience. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: It’s just stupid coaching nepotism with Feliciano, D. Williams, and extending Spain. It’s really annoying and if there is a wart here, it’s the way they have really screwed that up. And Bates is going to be very good, whether here or somewhere else. He and Ike Boettger should have been our starting guards last year from the get go imo. That may have been our O line coach, Bobby Johnson. You wonder why the Giants weren't interested in him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 1 minute ago, jkeerie said: That may have been our O line coach, Bobby Johnson. You wonder why the Giants weren't interested in him. That is a great point. With their needs they don’t even sniff Bates, but rush to sign Feliciano and Mark Glowinski. It is weird. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 17 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: His pass blocking has sucked though… and that’s the Bills bread and butter. Still hopeful Beane brings in a good veteran inside, especially if Bates is gone. I think Coach lawn chairs has something in mind for the O-line, not worried about run or pass blocking for this upcoming season, but that could just be me… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddo Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 17 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Wasn't Ford a high 2nd round investment? Not that I'm saying he was a GOOD investment at this point, mind you - but the point is, we can't say the Bills have not invested at all in G except for late round picks, when they did invest a 2nd on Ford. I agree we need a good draft investment in G, but not to "replace Bates" I like Bates, who started 6 games (one he didn't play very long) if we count the playoffs - and why wouldn't we count the playoffs? I think the OL played better with him at LG. Nevertheless, it's not a huge sample to use as a basis for counting on a guy as a long term OL starter, and neither is a 1 yr contract to an older vet (Saffold). So I think we'd better be making another Serious Draft Investment at G. I think the thinking about "oh no we need a high draft pick to replace Bates" sees there as being some sort of coaching grudge or stupidity or oversight which had Bates starting the season as #3 on the depth chart and only playing after the 2 guys ahead of him got hurt. Well, the last part is pretty much true. Not from a coaching grudge aspect, but from stupidity or oversight. One of the things that gets talked about a lot as regards the O-Line, is that they all need to be on the same page. They pretty much weren't, until the last 3rd of the season, when Bates got the start. Then they were, and it made all the difference in the world. The Bills can no longer operate 'under the radar', when it comes to other teams looking at who we have, and what we do. It's a consequence of success. I don't believe that Beane wants Bates to go, but his preferred way of doing things appears to be to let others set the market. With the higher profile that the Bills now enjoy, I think that's going to become a lot less viable, and it will probably start with losing Bates to an offer we will now (possibly) be unable, or unwilling, to match due to cap constraints. Personally, I would have stuck the 2nd round tender on him. With the level of interest he appears to have generated (at least 3 visits to teams), then if we were to lose him, we would be getting something back. Even if it wasn't a 2nd, we could have possibly done a sign and trade deal for a lesser pick. Which would still equate to something for nothing, and while we briefly would have been on the hook for an extra $1.5 million, at least we aren't just being turned over for nothing. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 I know its combine and a while ago, but Bates did 28 reps on the bench and Ford did 19…Which is borderline pathetic for his size. So I would argue there is more power in Bates’ game. Just because he is athletic doesn’t mean he plays a finesse game. And just because guys like Ford and Feliciano are fat, doesn’t mean they are powerful. Just my 2 cents. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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