Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, John Adams said:

 

Telling you what I donated to is...not virtue signaling? 

 

Got it. 

 

Cuckoo. 

 

Going to say anything about Kharkiv or is that all 2014 footage? MSM hype? 

I commented on Kharkiv in the other thread that actually has serious commentary 

[Tiberius]

16 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I just can't wrap my head around the complete 180 that leftist, social justice types, and virtue signalers here who consistently criticize and basically hate everything about systemically racist and oppressive America, its history, and its culture. and that despise the flag-waving yokels and hicks they label as racists and bigots, have suddenly turned into Patriots.  And presto, chango, they're big supporters of all things American.  And have the balls to call out anyone as un-patriotic and anti-American that dares to deviate from their latest script on the topic.  My advice is they should go fook themselves. 

A bully trying to subjugate a free people and you don't think social justice types won't be outraged? You are clueless 

[John Adams]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

I commented on Kharkiv in the other thread that actually has serious commentary 

 

That's fair. I don't take threads Tibs starts seriously--bad enough I'm in this one!

[All_Pro_Bills]

5 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Deep down they know that the President they support, with his weakness since the day he took office, has helped put Ukrainians in this position. 
 

Weak men create hard times. 
 

Therefore they’ve gone from masked profile pics to Ukrainian flag profile pics.  Credit to the one poster here sharing UNICEF links, but outside of that person, I haven’t seen any of them do anything to actually help the innocent people in the middle of this.  
 

It’s all virtue signaling.  
 

My overall assessment is the US, NATO, and Europe "partners" led Ukraine into this situation, urged them to pick a fight they couldn't win alone, provided them with some weapons and assurances of support, and then when the hostilities started, we split. 

If we didn't have their backs in this fight with Russia that was obviously looking for a confrontation and a good excuse to start it, then we should have made that clear at the start. 

My sympathies to the Ukrainian people because we failed them. And basically hung them out to dry.  And our response?  Some useless sanctions because we're afraid to bear some pain and sacrifice for our ideals and to support the cause by doing something more intense.  Now that to me un-American and calling out our leader and government for what I consider to be their unacceptable actions doesn't make me the bad guy.

[Niagara Bill]

50 years ago, the reaction to the Ukraine crisis by some politicians would have ruined their careers, and maybe faced charges.

Sanders, Cortez, Greene, trump, and I am sure others should lose their standing in the eyes of the public. Blame America for Putin, cheer Putin for his tactics, the extremes of both sides should sicken their followers and voters. But likely it will not.

[SoCal Deek]

5 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

50 years ago, the reaction to the Ukraine crisis by some politicians would have ruined their careers, and maybe faced charges.

Sanders, Cortez, Greene, trump, and I am sure others should lose their standing in the eyes of the public. Blame America for Putin, cheer Putin for his tactics, the extremes of both sides should sicken their followers and voters. But likely it will not.

50 years ago a lot of things were different and THIS is the one thing that gets under your Canadian skin? 

[SCBills]

15 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

A bully trying to subjugate a free people and you don't think social justice types won't be outraged? You are clueless 

And the reaction is Ukrainian flag profile pics, calling everyone Russian assets, Swalwell and others demanding Russian students are deported, pouring out Russian vodka in the streets and vandalizing Russian businesses.  
 

Ukrainians are so thankful for this support.  
 

Edited February 28, 2022 by SCBills

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

And the reaction is Swalwell and others demanding Russian students are deported, pouring out Russian vodka in the streets and vandalizing Russian businesses.  
 

Ukrainians are so thankful for this support.  
 

A burning Russian convoys!!! 

 

Vive La Resistance!! 🥊

[All_Pro_Bills]

10 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

50 years ago, the reaction to the Ukraine crisis by some politicians would have ruined their careers, and maybe faced charges.

Sanders, Cortez, Greene, trump, and I am sure others should lose their standing in the eyes of the public. Blame America for Putin, cheer Putin for his tactics, the extremes of both sides should sicken their followers and voters. But likely it will not.

Maybe you can send the Ottawa PD over to help?  I heard they're pretty tough when it comes to roughing up unarmed protesters and trampling old ladies.

[John Adams]

11 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

My overall assessment is the US, NATO, and Europe "partners" led Ukraine into this situation, urged them to pick a fight they couldn't win alone, provided them with some weapons and assurances of support, and then when the hostilities started, we split. 

If we didn't have their backs in this fight with Russia that was obviously looking for a confrontation and a good excuse to start it, then we should have made that clear at the start. 

 

Ah yes, this is NATO's fault. We made Ukraine start this war. 

 

Just needed to quote this for posterity. 

 

You are nucking futs. 

 

11 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

My sympathies to the Ukrainian people because we failed them. And basically hung them out to dry.  And our response?  Some useless sanctions because we're afraid to bear some pain and sacrifice for our ideals and to support the cause by doing something more intense.  Now that to me un-American and calling out our leader and government for what I consider to be their unacceptable actions doesn't make me the bad guy.

 

So what? You want us to drive our military in to start WW3? 

14 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

50 years ago, the reaction to the Ukraine crisis by some politicians would have ruined their careers, and maybe faced charges.

Sanders, Cortez, Greene, trump, and I am sure others should lose their standing in the eyes of the public. Blame America for Putin, cheer Putin for his tactics, the extremes of both sides should sicken their followers and voters. But likely it will not.

 

Since we're having the conversation here, I'll ask it again here. 

 

Can someone link me to the speech where Churchill called Hitler savvy and a genius? 

[Niagara Bill]

7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

50 years ago a lot of things were different and THIS is the one thing that gets under your Canadian skin? 

No, one thing that is concerning is major politicians either loving Communism or blaming capitalism and people living in a democracy not reacting except through party line. Party before country.....repulsive to me.

[LeviF]

Just a reminder that everyone who was wrong about: masks, vax, BLM, COVID "conspiracies," and (going back further) Iraq are banging the drum for Ukraine in lockstep.

 

This is not a value proposition, just a statement.

 

From what I'm understanding currently the Russian offensive is progressing faster than the 2003 US invasion of Iraq did.

[SoCal Deek]

6 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

No, one thing that is concerning is major politicians either loving Communism or blaming capitalism and people living in a democracy not reacting except through party line. Party before country.....repulsive to me.

I share your frustration. What I find amazing about the Ukrainian situation is how the rest of the world is sitting back and watching this unfold in real time and the best we can collectively do is tell the Russians we’re going to make it hard for them to go to the ATM. Really? That’s what we’re all doing? 

[John Adams]

1 minute ago, LeviF said:

Just a reminder that everyone who was wrong about: masks, vax, BLM, COVID "conspiracies," and (going back further) Iraq are banging the drum for Ukraine in lockstep.

 

This is not a value proposition, just a statement.

 

From what I'm understanding currently the Russian offensive is progressing faster than the 2003 US invasion of Iraq did.

 

Anyone who thinks Kyiv is somehow going to remain in control of Ukraine might want to rethink things. The real question is what Kyiv will be like once the tanks roll in and the Russian flag is flying. 

 

Looks like North Korea for the General Flynn/Tulsi Gabbard talking points. 

 

 

[muppy]

Reading in PPP regarding this conflict I have a few thoughts and I pray they are profitable to someone/anyone. There is a bills chat site called billszone that has a political subforum wherein a Ukranian is posting Very provocative tweets and photo info by native Ukranian speakers (poster himself Ukranian)...I dont partake in twitter and don't know how to post it here but if anyone is interested I think you will be seeing valuable insights.

 

One tweet I saw and again Im sorry to paraphrase, but what it basically said (spoken by a Russian  in St Petersburg Russia) said that in a similar manner in which  Germans apologize and lament  the Hitler era, the same will be for Russians regarding vladimir putin in Ukraine.

 

He clearly is a crazy dangerous man on a path of destruction.

 

Lord Have Mercy. **praying for Peace***-m

[John Adams]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

I share your frustration. What I find amazing about the Ukrainian situation is how the rest of the world is sitting back and watching this unfold in real time and the best we can collectively do is tell the Russians we’re going to make it hard for them to go to the ATM. Really? That’s what we’re all doing? 

 

Tanking their economy is not a small thing. 

 

What would you have the US do? Not asking snarkily but seriously. We have given Ukraine a billion dolalrs in the last year and 385M this past weekend. 

 

Do you want us to start WW3 by controlling the air space? 

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, John Adams said:

 

Tanking their economy is not a small thing. 

 

What would you have the US do? Not asking snarkily but seriously. We have given Ukraine a billion dolalrs in the last year and 385M this past weekend. 

 

Do you want us to start WW3 by controlling the air space? 

For starters I’d have taken the build up seriously. We ALL saw this coming for months. The whole free world saw it coming. It’s sad to think that the missiles have to hit apartment buildings before our so-called leaders take enough of a break from the Olympic Games to give a damn. I’m not trying to be a jerk here, nor a partisan hack, but to step back and really look at this situation. This is not a drill. This is what the free world does when challenged. It’s pretty sad really.

[Tiberius]

7 minutes ago, John Adams said:

 

Anyone who thinks Kyiv is somehow going to remain in control of Ukraine might want to rethink things. The real question is what Kyiv will be like once the tanks roll in and the Russian flag is flying. 

 

Looks like North Korea for the General Flynn/Tulsi Gabbard talking points. 

 

 

Well, I don't think Kyiv will fall. Those tanks will be blasted with Javelin anti-tank missiles 

[John Adams]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

For starters I’d have taken the build up seriously. We ALL saw this coming for months. The whole free world saw it coming. It’s sad to think that the missiles have to hit apartment buildings before our so-called leaders take enough of a break from the Olympic Games to give a damn. I’m not trying to be a jerk here, nor a partisan hack, but to step back and really look at this situation. This is not a drill. This is what the free world does when challenged. It’s pretty sad really.

 

That's not an answer though. "Take it seriously" how? 

 

If the US shipped a bunch of weapons to Ukraine a month ago, you'd have been here saying that we're trying to provoke a war. And don't you dare deny it. 

 

Ask again: You are criticizing our response right now. What do you want the US to do right now?

 

An article on the effect of the sanctions on the Russian economy. Significant, but will it bring about change? O'Brien is not sure but again, what the world is doing is not a small thing and those $630B reserves might not go as far as Putin thinks (and might be already cut by 2/3).  

 

 https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-02-28/russian-attack-on-ukraine-west-weaponizes-central-bank-against-putin

[Tiberius]

Hold my beer! 

 

Ukrainian officials have asked European citizens of all stripes to join their fight against Russia — and some nations are responding approvingly to the call.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and his officials over the weekend announced a new volunteer force for foreign fighters, called the International Legion of Territorial Defense of Ukraine, and urged volunteers to join through their local Ukrainian embassies. Zelensky said “anyone who wants to join the defense of Ukraine, Europe and the world can come and fight side by side with the Ukrainians against the Russian war criminals.”

Foreigners willing to defend Ukraine and world order as part of the International Legion of Territorial Defense of Ukraine, I invite you to contact foreign diplomatic missions of Ukraine in your respective countries. Together we defeated Hitler, and we will defeat Putin, too.

— Dmytro Kuleba (@DmytroKuleba) February 27, 2022