Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[Tiberius]

 

[B-Man]

 

Good news.

 

 

PUTIN’S WAR: In Major Advance, Ukraine Drives Russians Out of Key Eastern City.

 

Ukrainian forces seized most of a strategically vital city in northeastern Ukraine on Saturday, cutting the main supply line to thousands of Russian troops near the eastern city of Izyum and marking the biggest strategic gain Ukraine has made since the start of an offensive this week.

 

Photos from Russian and Ukrainian channels on Telegram showed Ukrainian soldiers holding the country’s flag in front of the city hall in Kupyansk, and Kremlin-loyal Russian military correspondents said Moscow’s forces had pulled back across the Oskil River to the eastern part of the city.

 

The Kupyansk rail and road hub located in the western half of the city was the last artery connecting Russia with thousands of troops on territory that represented the bulk of Russia’s gains in May and June. Ukraine’s control of the road network also threatens Russia’s hold on Izyum, a city Moscow had planned to use to launch further attacks on Ukrainian-controlled parts of the Donetsk region in the country’s east.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-major-advance-ukraine-drives-russians-out-of-key-eastern-city-11662807160

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

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[Tiberius]

Who knows? 

 

 

[Coffeesforclosers]

34 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

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Normally I'd dismiss it as crazy talk. But there's reports coming out from both Russian and Ukrainian sources that Izyum fell to Ukraine. Along with the supply depots full of artillery and small arms ammunition, dozens of tanks and armored fighting vehicles and thousands of POWs.

 

If this pans out too, the Russian army in the north is in a full fledged rout. I say the north because the Russian army in the south is still fighting hard and maintaining its discipline.  But holy *****.  

[Tiberius]

Seeing those A-10's flying there makes all this make more sense. Taken together with the use of Harm Missiles https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-touts-role-us-harm-missiles-strikes-russian-defenses-1741715 to suppress AA defenses, those A-10's are just a terror carrying possibly 10 maverick missiles and of course that Gatling Gun. If they are unopposed over a battlefield, well good bye whatever its after. 

[Tiberius]

 

[sherpa]

18 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Seeing those A-10's flying there makes all this make more sense. Taken together with the use of Harm Missiles https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-touts-role-us-harm-missiles-strikes-russian-defenses-1741715 to suppress AA defenses, those A-10's are just a terror carrying possibly 10 maverick missiles and of course that Gatling Gun. If they are unopposed over a battlefield, well good bye whatever its after. 

 

I'm not sure the use of HARM can be associated with the A-10.

Unless it has been significantly modified, the A-10 does not carry HARM.

HARM has been used, in a greatly diminished capability, by Ukrainian MIG 29's.

To fully use it's capabilities, HARM requires rather advanced internal avionics. 

It can be fired, as I said, with greatly diminished capability in a really basic mode.

[Tiberius]

35 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

I'm not sure the use of HARM can be associated with the A-10.

Unless it has been significantly modified, the A-10 does not carry HARM.

HARM has been used, in a greatly diminished capability, by Ukrainian MIG 29's.

To fully use it's capabilities, HARM requires rather advanced internal avionics. 

It can be fired, as I said, with greatly diminished capability in a really basic mode.

I didn't mean to imply the A-10 was using them, but just that the HARM was being used to shape the battlefield to allow the A-10 more protection to roam freely 

[sherpa]

3 hours ago, Tiberius said:

I didn't mean to imply the A-10 was using them, but just that the HARM was being used to shape the battlefield to allow the A-10 more protection to roam freely 

 

The A-10 is an extremely vulnerable platform with any basic anti air defense.

It almost demands total elimination of even simple shoulder mounted capability.

HARM is a great system, but being used in a greatly diminished capability is certainly not a game changer for the A-10.

The A-10 is a magnet for very simple anti air capability.

 

[L Ron Burgundy]

2 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

The A-10 is an extremely vulnerable platform with any basic anti air defense.

It almost demands total elimination of even simple shoulder mounted capability.

HARM is a great system, but being used in a greatly diminished capability is certainly not a game changer for the A-10.

The A-10 is a magnet for very simple anti air capability.

 

Josh Allen once took one out with a football.  #facts

[Tiberius]

4 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

The A-10 is an extremely vulnerable platform with any basic anti air defense.

It almost demands total elimination of even simple shoulder mounted capability.

HARM is a great system, but being used in a greatly diminished capability is certainly not a game changer for the A-10.

The A-10 is a magnet for very simple anti air capability.

 

Agree totally about the A-10 and its vulnernabilities. It's built around a big mean gun, but to use that gun it has to go down to where the targets are, so its liable to be hit by all sorts of things, as you point out. I'm not sure air craft should be used against tanks, anyway. Planes are more valuable and tanks can be killed in other ways. 

 

But I think this situation in Ukraine now might be ideal for the A-10 , if it even there and being used, I only saw that video which may or may not mean anything. 

 

The ten maverick missiles I mentioned is a serious payload and that is what I was thinking about. Those missiles can be fired far from any AA guns or hand held SAMs and they can then be guided directly to target with a second observer on ground or via drone. 

 

If the HARMs have suppressed the big SAMs--or just made them too afraid to turn on their radar--the A-10's would just be blasting holes in the Russians strong points. 

 

[Tiberius]

 

hoping this is all true!!

[Tiberius]

oh brother, what silly stuff. They sound like kremlin spokesperson 

 

 

 

[aristocrat]

 

[B-Man]

 

 

                               

 

 

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[Westside]

[Tiberius]

4 hours ago, Westside said:

Everyone that cares about freedom, free government and democracy. Thank goodness Biden was president when this happened 

[Brueggs]

26 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Everyone that cares about freedom, free government and democracy. Thank goodness Biden was president when this happened 

Yes, thank goodness.  Not only is this war a direct reflection of his weakness, we get to compound it by spending US taxpayer dollars to a nation that he, and his son..... and brother, were in bed with.  And in the coming months, all of Europe will be saddled with higher energy costs as the ruble gains on the dollar.  A real win-win situation for everybody.

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, Brueggs said:

Yes, thank goodness.  Not only is this war a direct reflection of his weakness, we get to compound it by spending US taxpayer dollars to a nation that he, and his son..... and brother, were in bed with.  And in the coming months, all of Europe will be saddled with higher energy costs as the ruble gains on the dollar.  A real win-win situation for everybody.

Freedom isn't free! 

 

Did you stand with Obama in opposing the Iraq War? 

[Westside]

34 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Freedom isn't free! 

 

Did you stand with Obama in opposing the Iraq War? 

Freedom isn’t your end goal. You want to be coddled by the govt. 

What a mess!

[Tiberius]

43 minutes ago, Westside said:

Freedom isn’t your end goal. You want to be coddled by the govt. 

What a mess!

And you want fascism. You are losing 

[Brueggs]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Freedom isn't free! 

 

Did you stand with Obama in opposing the Iraq War? 

Interesting, now you're about freedom?  There has to be some internal conflict with that notion?  Why are we the only country in the world that has a problem with being a sovereign nation?  I'm all for lending a hand to other struggling countries, when we have our own affairs in order.  

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, Brueggs said:

Interesting, now you're about freedom?  There has to be some internal conflict with that notion?  Why are we the only country in the world that has a problem with being a sovereign nation?  I'm all for lending a hand to other struggling countries, when we have our own affairs in order.  

You are a surrender monkey. 

 

Your last point is so silly. What, when a Repiblican is president? 

 

You supported Bush's war right? Or were you with Obama on that? 

[sherpa]

17 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

 

You supported Bush's war right? Or were you with Obama on that? 

 

Nobody in the Democrat Party supported that war more than Biden using his Senatorial influence

He promoted it for months.

Did you forget that?

[SoCal Deek]

4 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Everyone that cares about freedom, free government and democracy. Thank goodness Biden was president when this happened 

You’re right! I’m sure without Joe at the wheel it would’ve been a major incursion instead of the minor incursion he opened the door for. 

[Brueggs]

8 hours ago, Tiberius said:

You are a surrender monkey. 

 

Your last point is so silly. What, when a Repiblican is president? 

 

You supported Bush's war right? Or were you with Obama on that? 

It has nothing to do with party.  I didn't like either one of those presidents actually.  

Now that partisan politics is out of the way, where does that leave you?

[Tiberius]

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

12 hours ago, Brueggs said:

Interesting, now you're about freedom?  There has to be some internal conflict with that notion?  Why are we the only country in the world that has a problem with being a sovereign nation?  I'm all for lending a hand to other struggling countries, when we have our own affairs in order.  

Simply because America is unique as its both a country and a global empire.  America the country is like other countries with elected representative government that  serves the interests of the people and the country.  But in reality, most of the representatives we elect to Washington serve the interests of the empire. 

 

The empire's objectives are simple.  Maintain the current uni-polar order where the empire makes the rules and everybody else follows the rules.  Address any threats to this order by whatever means are required.   Countries that don't want to follow the rules are subject to political, economic, and military actions.  As long as a country follows the rules it doesn't matter if its a democracy, a monarchy, or some form of an oppressive government as long as they serve the interests of the empire. 

 

While most think the empire derives its power from the military, its real power comes from the US dollar and its status as the world's reserve and trade settlement currency.  And through this controls the "value" of money worldwide.  When you control the value of money, you control the value of everything.  Along with that it allows for the remarkable ability to run trillion dollar deficits and create billions at any whim while deflecting most of the harm and impact to others.   

Edited September 14, 2022 by All_Pro_Bills

[Tiberius]

2 hours ago, Brueggs said:

It has nothing to do with party.  I didn't like either one of those presidents actually.  

Now that partisan politics is out of the way, where does that leave you?

Leaves me with a victory against fascism. Putin being defeated is a good thing all around. 

11 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

Nobody in the Democrat Party supported that war more than Biden using his Senatorial influence

He promoted it for months.

Did you forget that?

Joe Biden isn't the reason we went to war. I'm sure in a few months we can really have a deep discussion on this, The 20 year anniversary of the war is coming up 

[sherpa]

4 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Leaves me with a victory against fascism. Putin being defeated is a good thing all around. 

Joe Biden isn't the reason we went to war. I'm sure in a few months we can really have a deep discussion on this, The 20 year anniversary of the war is coming up 

 

No, Joe Biden isn't the reason for anything until he was President.

He was basically a suit in the Senate.

Regardless, he was the main trumpeter in the support for the war, on the Democrat side, in his Senate role.

Undeniable.

Factual.

Not subject to argument.

[Tiberius]

32 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

No, Joe Biden isn't the reason for anything until he was President.

He was basically a suit in the Senate.

Regardless, he was the main trumpeter in the support for the war, on the Democrat side, in his Senate role.

Undeniable.

Factual.

Not subject to argument.

So? 

[sherpa]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

So? 

 

So?

Are you kidding?

You are asking someone if they supported Obama's angst against the war, while neglecting to acknowledge the single most influential proponent of it on the Dem side, who is now our President was rallying his troops for it. 

So?

You think no one notices this nonsense?

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, sherpa said:

 

So?

Are you kidding?

You are asking someone if they supported Obama's angst against the war, while neglecting to acknowledge the single most influential proponent of it on the Dem side, who is now our President was rallying his troops for it. 

So?

You think no one notices this nonsense?

Oh no, I ask someone something! 😆

 

And Biden was NOT the single most influential proponent on Dem side, he even tried watering down the powers given to Bush on his mad rush to war 

[sherpa]

20 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Oh no, I ask someone something! 😆

 

And Biden was NOT the single most influential proponent on Dem side, he even tried watering down the powers given to Bush on his mad rush to war 

 

 

Goodness me.

He was Chairman of the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee when the vote was cast.

Are you simply blind to this?

 

Watching you, and him, back away from this is as pathetic as watching the Pelosi brigade deny knowing about "enhanced interrogation."

Insulting to anybody with any knowledge, and grossly insulting to people involved. 

[Tiberius]

36 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

 

Goodness me.

He was Chairman of the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee when the vote was cast.

Are you simply blind to this?

 

Watching you, and him, back away from this is as pathetic as watching the Pelosi brigade deny knowing about "enhanced interrogation."

Insulting to anybody with any knowledge, and grossly insulting to people involved. 

Goodness! Was he really, wow! 

 

Backing away? What have you got in your head. 

 

He also said his vote was a mistake. Yup 

 

Ya, that torture in Iraq was real bad, wasn't it? 

 

What a mess! 

 

oh, and 19 years, not 20, my bad 

 

Bush's crazed drive to invade Iraq, What a mess! 

[PetermansRedemption]

If reports are to believed. Looks like this fiery ordeal might finally be nearing the endgame with a Ukrainian victory. Now we just have to hope Putin accepts the loss with grace and doesn’t do anything desperate. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by PetermansRedemption

[Coffeesforclosers]

1 minute ago, PetermansRedemption said:

If reports are to believed. Looks like this fiery ordeal might finally be nearing the endgame with a Ukrainian victory. Now we just have to hope Putin accepts the loss with grace and doesn’t do anything desperate. 

 

I hope so. This war should have never happened, and when it happened it should have been a comprehensive Russian victory.  Putin has no one to blame for the current mess than himself and the country he's built over the last 20 years.  

 

Taking his L and cutting a deal *should* have happened months ago, when it was obvious his army and his country weren't prepared for a real war. But all he does is double down on mistakes, or try and escalate his way out of the situation.  What worries me is what he does when he realizes he's flushed 20 years worth of success down the toilet in 6 months. 

[sherpa]

20 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Goodness! Was he really, wow! 

 

Backing away? What have you got in your head. 

 

He also said his vote was a mistake. Yup 

 

Ya, that torture in Iraq was real bad, wasn't it? 

 

What a mess! 

 

oh, and 19 years, not 20, my bad 

 

Bush's crazed drive to invade Iraq, What a mess! 

 

If this makes any sense to anyone.

[Tiberius]

16 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

If this makes any sense to anyone.

Answering nonsense, so...

 

Was the Iraq War a mistake?