Big Blitz Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 1 hour ago, JaCrispy said: One of the reasons I wanted to post this is because I just finished a tough 2 week bout with covid... Relatives keep asking me if I’m finally going to get the shot...but now that I’ve had the Delta variant, I really don’t see the point- especially if my immunity is now stronger than the vaccine... This is what I don’t get about the government pushing mandates, and Fauci saying he knows NOTHING about natural immunity...that’s really crazy when you think about it...Fauci’s whole job is to study covid and how it affects people in every way...and you’re telling me that, after 18 months, he knows NOTHING about natural immunity- after all the people that have gotten it and survived?!?!?! This kind of tells me that maybe the goal has never really been about herd immunity...because if it was, then people with natural immunity should have just as much privilege as vaccinated people imo- maybe even more after this report.... But instead, the actions of Fauci and the government make it seem like the goal is just to get everyone vaccinated, regardless of natural immunity- which seems extremely odd to me...that is not following the science...and it is this odd behavior that makes me not want to get the vaccine for how shady it seems.... Now, I am pro vaccine for whoever wants to get it...but saying you’re following the science, while completely ignoring natural immunity just doesn’t add up to me, and makes it seem like there is an ulterior motive to get everyone vaxxed... I'm glad you're well Jay. Good to hear. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted September 15, 2021 Author Share Posted September 15, 2021 22 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: You misinterpret the data. The delta variant can cause short term viral loads in vaccinated people. I’m going to get in the weeds a bit so bear with me. The virus can colonize the lining of the upper respiratory tract and multiply there, because even vaccinated people do not mount what is called a secretory antibody response, and antibody called secretory IgA. So for a short time vaccinated people can spread. But the time they can do so is much shorter than in unvaccinated, so you are still less likely to pass the virus if you are vaccinated. You point to a few well publicized breakthrough infections but those are exceptions and not the rule. People want to simplify answers to the enormously complex science of viral disease. Where you are wrong with the Russian roulette is that vaccinated people are far less likely to die from Covid. Far less. All the data from hospitals indicate that those in ICUs and morgues are over 90% unvaccinated. That is actual data. And that is because once the systemic immune system sees the virus in the vaccinated individual the humoral IgG response is very effective at neutralizing the virus. Unvaccinated people don’t get that response, and unfortunately many die. Many. Vaccinations have eradicated some diseases and allowed us to manage many more by inducing immune responses without causing actual disease. The Covid vaccines will do the same people f we all quit fighting the science. It is not. We take care of patients. We can’t bring diseases into the hospital and put patients at risk. Employers can mandate it, they’ve done it for flu and hepatitis for years now. Without knowing some of the finer details you mentioned, I actually agree with most of what you said... My perspective comes more from that of already having covid and feeling I shouldn’t be mandated to take the vaccine because of my natural immunity...but I feel our officials aren’t following the science, when it comes to that...In fact, no one is even talking about it...maybe it’s because you can’t make money off of natural immunity...but you have to admit, the silence on the matter is deafening... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-judge-blocks-ny-vaccine-mandate-healthcare-workers-2021-09-14/ Looks like a judge in Utica NY ruled against vaccine mandates 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 4 hours ago, Backintheday544 said: religious opt outs are good. Lets take Texas abortion for example. The Satanic temple is suing for a religious opt out of any person who wants to have an abortion under their Abortion rituals. If you’re pro opting out of a vaccine for religious reasons, I have to assume you’re pro opting out of the abortion law for religious reasons. Now I’m not a religious scholar but let’s use Christianity for example. I don’t think vaccines were around while the Bible was written post-Jesus death so I’d find it hard to believe vaccines are against that religion. When we fought the British and George Washington said hey you have to get vaccinated for smallpox or you will not be part of this country. Even though it would anger people who fought for our new country, they feared to lose their jobs. Some jobs just have job requirements. If you don’t meet the requirement you don’t get the job. There are no modern religions in the US that are against vaccines. Most, if not all of these exemptions are about to be invalidated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 I hope Lamar Jackson reads this. BTW....is there any danger in getting the vaccine if you already had Covid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Backintheday544 said: With this great analysis, you seem to know what you’re talking about. So please explain if given the choice: 1. vaccine 2. horse dewormer which is safer and better? I think I’d go vaccine. 5 hours ago, JaCrispy said: Without knowing some of the finer details you mentioned, I actually agree with most of what you said... My perspective comes more from that of already having covid and feeling I shouldn’t be mandated to take the vaccine because of my natural immunity...but I feel our officials aren’t following the science, when it comes to that...In fact, no one is even talking about it...maybe it’s because you can’t make money off of natural immunity...but you have to admit, the silence on the matter is deafening... I would say for someone like you that your antibody titer should be measured. If high I would agree you likely don’t need vaccination. Edited September 15, 2021 by oldmanfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfanmiamioh Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 11 hours ago, JaCrispy said: One of the reasons I wanted to post this is because I just finished a tough 2 week bout with covid... Relatives keep asking me if I’m finally going to get the shot...but now that I’ve had the Delta variant, I really don’t see the point- especially if my immunity is now stronger than the vaccine... This is what I don’t get about the government pushing mandates, and Fauci saying he knows NOTHING about natural immunity...that’s really crazy when you think about it...Fauci’s whole job is to study covid and how it affects people in every way...and you’re telling me that, after 18 months, he knows NOTHING about natural immunity- after all the people that have gotten it and survived?!?!?! This kind of tells me that maybe the goal has never really been about herd immunity...because if it was, then people with natural immunity should have just as much privilege as vaccinated people imo- maybe even more after this report.... But instead, the actions of Fauci and the government make it seem like the goal is just to get everyone vaccinated, regardless of natural immunity- which seems extremely odd to me...that is not following the science...and it is this odd behavior that makes me not want to get the vaccine for how shady it seems.... Now, I am pro vaccine for whoever wants to get it...but saying you’re following the science, while completely ignoring natural immunity just doesn’t add up to me, and makes it seem like there is an ulterior motive to get everyone vaxxed... It’s because he’s lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 14 hours ago, JaCrispy said: How did we rid ourselves of polio and smallpox? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 11 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: So if 100 million already had Covid and another 60% are vaccinated then it stands to reason there very few hosts left….no? Some pfeizer exec on CNBC speculated were at 80% vaxed and or had. 11 hours ago, JaCrispy said: One of the reasons I wanted to post this is because I just finished a tough 2 week bout with covid... Relatives keep asking me if I’m finally going to get the shot...but now that I’ve had the Delta variant, I really don’t see the point- especially if my immunity is now stronger than the vaccine... This is what I don’t get about the government pushing mandates, and Fauci saying he knows NOTHING about natural immunity...that’s really crazy when you think about it...Fauci’s whole job is to study covid and how it affects people in every way...and you’re telling me that, after 18 months, he knows NOTHING about natural immunity- after all the people that have gotten it and survived?!?!?! This kind of tells me that maybe the goal has never really been about herd immunity...because if it was, then people with natural immunity should have just as much privilege as vaccinated people imo- maybe even more after this report.... But instead, the actions of Fauci and the government make it seem like the goal is just to get everyone vaccinated, regardless of natural immunity- which seems extremely odd to me...that is not following the science...and it is this odd behavior that makes me not want to get the vaccine for how shady it seems.... Now, I am pro vaccine for whoever wants to get it...but saying you’re following the science, while completely ignoring natural immunity just doesn’t add up to me, and makes it seem like there is an ulterior motive to get everyone vaxxed... Glad you recovered sir. Natural immunity isn’t very profitable… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Some pfeizer exec on CNBC speculated were at 80% vaxed and or had. Thanks. So it’d seem like we should be making our way through the universe of available hosts…no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDD Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 12 hours ago, JaCrispy said: One of the reasons I wanted to post this is because I just finished a tough 2 week bout with covid... Relatives keep asking me if I’m finally going to get the shot...but now that I’ve had the Delta variant, I really don’t see the point- especially if my immunity is now stronger than the vaccine... This is what I don’t get about the government pushing mandates, and Fauci saying he knows NOTHING about natural immunity...that’s really crazy when you think about it...Fauci’s whole job is to study covid and how it affects people in every way...and you’re telling me that, after 18 months, he knows NOTHING about natural immunity- after all the people that have gotten it and survived?!?!?! This kind of tells me that maybe the goal has never really been about herd immunity...because if it was, then people with natural immunity should have just as much privilege as vaccinated people imo- maybe even more after this report.... But instead, the actions of Fauci and the government make it seem like the goal is just to get everyone vaccinated, regardless of natural immunity- which seems extremely odd to me...that is not following the science...and it is this odd behavior that makes me not want to get the vaccine for how shady it seems.... Now, I am pro vaccine for whoever wants to get it...but saying you’re following the science, while completely ignoring natural immunity just doesn’t add up to me, and makes it seem like there is an ulterior motive to get everyone vaxxed... It doesn't make sense to you that the DOD would mandate vaccines to keep a healthy fighting force? If troops can be back to work in three days instead of two weeks that doesn't make sense to you? Not dying from this disease is not the only reason to get vaccinated. Keeping a reliable healtchcare/work/protection/first responder force in place to do essential jobs is also part of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 21 minutes ago, LDD said: It doesn't make sense to you that the DOD would mandate vaccines to keep a healthy fighting force? If troops can be back to work in three days instead of two weeks that doesn't make sense to you? Not dying from this disease is not the only reason to get vaccinated. Keeping a reliable healtchcare/work/protection/first responder force in place to do essential jobs is also part of it. You can’t talk sense into these people. If Trump and their GQP masters told them to jump over Niagara Falls - they would find a way to justify it and do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: Thanks. So it’d seem like we should be making our way through the universe of available hosts…no? Let's hope so. Basic virology: take away the hosts and the virus can't propogate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted September 15, 2021 Author Share Posted September 15, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, BillStime said: How did we rid ourselves of polio and smallpox? As I stated previously, I am pro vaccine Edited September 15, 2021 by JaCrispy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted September 15, 2021 Author Share Posted September 15, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, BillStime said: You can’t talk sense into these people. If Trump and their GQP masters told them to jump over Niagara Falls - they would find a way to justify it and do it. “These people”? We aren’t a monolith...we don’t all agree or disagree...it’s not pro vax vs anti vax...it’s much more complicated than that...people vary in the degrees to which they view certain information...people also vary in the degrees with how fearful they allow themselves to become, or how much freedom they want or don’t want... But to dwindle it down to either this or that seems a little disingenuous...there are many more layers you’re choosing to ignore... And by the way, 70% of black people don’t want to take the vaccine...are they all part of the GQP Trump brigade? Edited September 15, 2021 by JaCrispy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted September 15, 2021 Author Share Posted September 15, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, Governor said: There are no modern religions in the US that are against vaccines. Most, if not all of these exemptions are about to be invalidated. You are correct...no religion has outright come out and been against vaccines, specifically...however, there are teachings and warnings in the Bible about things that could be translated to mean certain medicine mandated by the state or a new global government... Edited September 15, 2021 by JaCrispy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundancer Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: You are correct...no religion has outright come out and been against vaccines, specifically...however, there are teachings and warnings in the Bible about things that could be translated to mean certain medicine mandated by the state or the New World Order... The Bible is against vaccines? Things I didn't learn in 13 years of Catholic school. Where is that? And what is the New World Order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 The vaccines were developed using cells from aborted fetus' giving some legitimacy to religious opt outs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted September 15, 2021 Author Share Posted September 15, 2021 Just now, Sundancer said: The Bible is against vaccines? Things I didn't learn in 13 years of Catholic school. Where is that? And what is the New World Order? First of all, I never said the Bible was against vaccines...but, if you would like more incite into what I’m referring to, I highly recommend you read the book of Revelation... New world order is a reference to all the nations of the world coming under the control of a centralized global government- kind of like where we are heading to now...and the book of Revelation makes references to all this stuff...it’s definitely worth your time...👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundancer Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: First of all, I never said the Bible was against vaccines...but, if you would like more incite into what I’m referring to, I highly recommend you read the book of Revelation... New world order is a reference to all the nations of the world coming under the control of a centralized global government- kind of like where we are heading to now...and the book of Revelation makes references to all this stuff...it’s definitely worth your time...👍 I have read revelation. I don't remember vaccinations. So you think this time it's really the end of times? Four horsemen and the like? And you also think that despite countries being more at odds than I can recall in recent history, we are headed to a one world government, where the likes of Iran, China, Russia, the US, India, UK, Germany, Israel, Canada all give over their sovereign powers to some single entity? I am trying to understand your position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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