Honest discussion about racism (non political)

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

58 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Then go find it and share it with us.  Perhaps that data isn't available.   

 

I believe we have already established that there are clearly different outcomes in sentencing based on gender despite consistent laws, as you so aptly pointed out.  Why is it so hard to believe that there could be bias in the system based on race in a country where blacks couldn't use the same bathrooms as whites 70 years ago?

Beliefs are for religion. I’m much more interested in facts, root causes and solutions than narratives and beliefs.  

When political apparatuses publish findings, it’s logical to be skeptical and there is glaring qualifier language around one of the biggest factors in actually determining sentencing.

 

However, Sentencing disparity is illegal so if it’s real, people need to start getting disbarred.  It should be very easy to hold individual judges accountable. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Jauronimo]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Beliefs are for religion. I’m much more interested in facts, root causes and solutions than narratives and beliefs.  

When political apparatuses publish findings, it’s logical to be skeptical and there is glaring qualifier language around one of the biggest factors in actually determining sentencing.

 

However, Sentencing disparity is illegal so if it’s real, people need to start getting disbarred.  It should be very easy to hold individual judges accountable. 

I implore you to do a modicum of research and go find some facts, any facts, pertinent to the matter that you won't summarily dismiss.  

[Motorin']

20 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I work with a number of really successful black people. They don’t allow any of this negativity narrative to dictate their pursuit of happiness. 

 

I want to go back and talk about where I agree with you. I think anybody can fall I to the trap of focusing exclusively on the negative and making excuses for their lack of success. I really like Sean McDermott's "be your best self" life philosophy. No matter what life throws at you, you have to believe in your ability to dig deep, work hard and succeed.

 

A personal philosophy that looks at the good and the potential in yourself and other people, while valuing hard work and success, is not at all incompatible with fighting for a fairer world for all. 

[reddogblitz]

7 hours ago, Tiberius said:

You would? Why is that? Are you oppressed? 

You have to admit that slavery and Jim Crow were systems, right? And those systems relied or were supported by racism, right? 

 

Whay systems do we have today analogous to Jim Crow and slavery?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

27 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I implore you to do a modicum of research and go find some facts, any facts, pertinent to the matter that you won't summarily dismiss.  

You post a study that’s supposed to exemplify something with material holes and now it’s my problem? 

[Jauronimo]

23 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

You post a study that’s supposed to exemplify something with material holes and now it’s my problem? 

You think lack of perfect data is a material weakness.  Makes me wonder how you formed your core beliefs in the first place.

[reddogblitz]

5 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Its not just laws we need to focus on but the differential treatment of people under the same laws.  Look at the disparity in sentencing by race and gender.  In the NFL, the rule book is the same for all teams. But if we had to play the Patriots 16 times a year with Walt Coleman calling the games, an impartial rule book doesn't mean the game is fair.

 

This is just one example.

 

https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-reports/demographic-differences-sentencing

 

I found this interesting In the report.

 

Quote

Female offenders of all races received shorter sentences than White male offenders during the Post-Report period, as they had for the prior four periods. 

 

So maybe its not just race since women regardless of race are the real Patriots in the justice system.

 

I had originally thought it had mostly to do with money but your report says they took that into account.

 

Still not sure.  Money goes a long way in the criminal justice system. 

 

The OJ trial proved the system works. A rich black man can get off just like a rich white man.

 

A good way to address this would be to somehow take the effects of money out of the process somehow IMHO.

 

Another aspect may be related is when I watch those true crime shows on TV where they show the questioning, way more white people ask for a lawyer whereas most of the black people sit there and eventually confess which results in a harsher sentence.  I'm yelling at my TV, "ASK FOR A LAWYER AND STOP TALKING", but few do.  Purely anecdotal sure, but may play a role too.  Maybe a little education in the POC community on how to deal with police and the law if arrested would help?

[Governor]

3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

because it says there clearly… see that’s how they get you. 
 

They seem extremely careful to say “past violence” in multiple places not “past criminal history”. 
 

So hypothetically if you were busted four times selling heroin to 12 year olds, of course the fifth time the sentence is longer, but it’s not necessarily a parameter in the analysis they way they couch it, because it wasn’t past violence. Thus in this analysis a career non violent criminal looks just like a first time offender. 
 

Id like to see the same sentencing analysis for first time offenders. Or bucketed by same criminal history. That’s my point. 

This is often the case but what you’ll notice is that cops oftentimes stack charges on blacks and multiple charges will stick when whites can usually plea down to 1 or 2 charges, or get a felony knocked down to a misdemeanor, etc.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

51 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

You think lack of perfect data is a material weakness.  Makes me wonder how you formed your core beliefs in the first place.

You don’t think non-violent priors impact sentencing? 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

40 minutes ago, Governor said:

This is often the case but what you’ll notice is that cops oftentimes stack charges on blacks and multiple charges will stick when whites can usually plea down to 1 or 2 charges, or get a felony knocked down to a misdemeanor, etc.

So say this is true what’s the solution?? What about all black police force? Will that work? 

[Governor]

12 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

So say this is true what’s the solution?? What about all black police force? Will that work? 

I dunno. If a white kid goes into your city and buys heroin then gets pulled over on his way home out of the city, they will usually get hit with possession of heroin.

 

if a black kid does the same exact thing, they will get hit with possession with intent to distribute AND trafficking heroin, which is a total game-changer.

[BillStime]

Just now, Governor said:

if a black kid does the same exact thing, they will get hit with possession with intent to distribute AND trafficking heroin, which is a total game-changer.

 

or death

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Just now, Governor said:

I dunno. If a white kid goes into your city and buys heroin then gets pulled over on his way home out of the city, they will usually get hit with possession of heroin.

 

if a black kid does the same exact thing, they will get hit with possession with intent to distribute AND trafficking heroin, which is a total game-changer.

Ok, so how do you solve that? If the cop is not white is this the same outcome? 
 

and aren’t the escalators defined by quantity? 

[Chef Jim]

6 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

Luckily for dumb people like me who don't know how the world works,  really smart people (not me clearly) have digitized the entire record of births and census records of our entire nation. 

They have?  So they have the technology to accurately trace back a person’s genetics 300 years?  Even if they could what markers are they using to link the person to a slave from 300 plus year ago?  
 

Can you at least link me to something that can educate us on that technology. 

[Motorin']

24 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

They have?  So they have the technology to accurately trace back a person’s genetics 300 years?  Even if they could what markers are they using to link the person to a slave from 300 plus year ago?  
 

Can you at least link me to something that can educate us on that technology. 

 

There's many resources, but the Mormon's have done a really good job providing resources and tools, including the digitization of census records going back to the 1600's. 

 

There's a lot of information available https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Quick_Guide_to_African_American_Records

[Chef Jim]

10 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

There's many resources, but the Mormon's have done a really good job providing resources and tools, including the digitization of census records going back to the 1600's. 

 

There's a lot of information available https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Quick_Guide_to_African_American_Records

Census records?  How do we definitively connect blacks today to slaves of 400 years ago without DNA?  
 

They don’t even know who built our family home 155 years ago. 
 

 

[Motorin']

1 hour ago, Chef Jim said:

Census records?  How do we definitively connect blacks today to slaves of 400 years ago without DNA?  
 

They don’t even know who built our family home 155 years ago. 
 

 

 

Is your concern about a new breed of welfare queens cheating the system, or that not everyone's genealogy may be unearthed? 

 

The descendants of the 4 million black Americans who were freed in 1865, just 155 years ago is a good place to start. 

 

Sorry you haven't been able to determine who built your parents house. Do you know who your great grandparents are? Can you prove it? I'm going to guess the answer is yes. 

[Chef Jim]

18 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Is your concern about a new breed of welfare queens cheating the system, or that not everyone's genealogy may be unearthed? 

 

The descendants of the 4 million black Americans who were freed in 1865, just 155 years ago is a good place to start. 

 

Sorry you haven't been able to determine who built your parents house. Do you know who your great grandparents are? Can you prove it? I'm going to guess the answer is yes. 

What proof will be required to prove they are descendants from slaves? 
 

I can trace my maternal grandfather’s family back to The Fortune which was the second ship to arrive at Plymouth.  I know it’s true. I saw it on the internet. 
 

On my dad’s side not past my grandfather.  
 

So what will be the cost for 100 years of free college and what will that add to the cost of and 1/8th of Hindu Kush? 

[Westside]

28 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Is your concern about a new breed of welfare queens cheating the system, or that not everyone's genealogy may be unearthed? 

 

The descendants of the 4 million black Americans who were freed in 1865, just 155 years ago is a good place to start. 

 

Sorry you haven't been able to determine who built your parents house. Do you know who your great grandparents are? Can you prove it? I'm going to guess the answer is yes. 

Serious question, do you think giving POC a check for however is decided, will end racism? Or playing the victim card once again after the money is gone? 
What exactly do you think that will solve? Will our nation be healed and whole again once the checks are distributed? 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

34 minutes ago, Bidens_basement said:

Serious question, do you think giving POC a check for however is decided, will end racism? Or playing the victim card once again after the money is gone? 
What exactly do you think that will solve? Will our nation be healed and whole again once the checks are distributed? 

not completely opposed to engage in this conversation. 
 

what would it cost us to end this unproductive conversation? I’d be ok if all of my 80 or 90k tax dollars went there if we can be done with this convo