Critical Race Theory

[Chef Jim]

4 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Where is racism being taught that it is good?  

 

At home. 

[Big Blitz]

6 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

At home. 

 

 

Lol OK.  

 

And CRT fixes that?  How so?  

 

 

If you are being taught at home "to be racist" it doesn't matter what your curriculum is.

[Chef Jim]

3 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Lol OK.  

 

And CRT fixes that?  How so?  

 

 

If you are being taught at home "to be racist" it doesn't matter what your curriculum is.

Never said CRT is meant to fix that. CRT is not what they will likely  be teaching. 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Chef Jim

[Capco]

3 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Who needs to be taught this?  

 

 

Better question.....which alone is what blows a hole in CRT....

 

Where is racism being taught that it is good?  

 

Racism is learned.  It's not something that is intrinsic in humans to my knowledge.  If it's not taught in schools (and afaik it most certainly is not), then it can only be learned from others within a person's immediate circle:  i.e., their family, as @Chef Jim astutely pointed out.  

 

And that's probably where the drive for CRT comes from.  There IS a battle to be fought against racism to this day, despite how far we have come.  

 

But we can rectify that without embracing critiques of liberalism, legal equality, and the meritocracy that defines our modern society.  

Edited July 19, 2021 by Capco

[Westside]

5 hours ago, Capco said:

 

Racism is learned.  It's not something that is intrinsic in humans to my knowledge.  If it's not taught in schools (and afaik it most certainly is not), then it can only be learned from others within a person's immediate circle:  i.e., their family, as @Chef Jim astutely pointed out.  

 

And that's probably where the drive for CRT comes from.  There IS a battle to be fought against racism to this day, despite how far we have come.  

 

But we can rectify that without embracing critiques of liberalism, legal equality, and the meritocracy that defines our modern society.  

Ending racism is like draining the ocean with a bucket. Racism is just another name for the boogeyman by the left, it is used to instill fear in anyone who disagrees with their beliefs. 
What “racism” really is, that the left won’t tell you is something imbedded in our DNA from the very beginning of man used to protect ourselves from anyone that is different from the tribe they belong with. It is neither good nor bad, except when taken a step further.

 

You can’t teach people to not show fear or distrust in other groups for the simple fact it’s part of our DNA. The left knows this, they have no problem exploiting this for there own personal and political gain.

If you don’t believe this, just look to other species on our planet. Lions kill other species of cats, primates also kill other primates that are different. Are they “racist” as well? We’re no different than those other species, how do you expect to teach crt to children something that is in there genes? The simple answer is you can’t.

The thing the left fails to understand is that racism is not predestined by the pigmentation of the skin, rather it’s something that is in all of us since the beginning of mankind.

 

But they already know this.

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, Bidens_basement said:

Ending racism is like draining the ocean with a bucket. Racism is just another name for the boogeyman by the left, it is used to instill fear in anyone who disagrees with their beliefs. 
What “racism” really is, that the left won’t tell you is something imbedded in our DNA from the very beginning of man used to protect ourselves from anyone that is different from the tribe they belong with. It is neither good nor bad, except when taken a step further.

 

You can’t teach people to not show fear or distrust in other groups for the simple fact it’s part of our DNA. The left knows this, they have no problem exploiting this for there own personal and political gain.

If you don’t believe this, just look to other species on our planet. Lions kill other species of cats, primates also kill other primates that are different. Are they “racist” as well? We’re no different than those other species, how do you expect to teach crt to children something that is in there genes? The simple answer is you can’t.

The thing the left fails to understand is that racism is not predestined by the pigmentation of the skin, rather it’s something that is in all of us since the beginning of mankind.

 

But they already know this.

Or the left does understand all of this and their agenda is just a big con to use race issues to gain power, influence, and control of society and all social and political narratives.  You suggest they are unaware or stupid.  I suggest they might just be sneaky and devious.  Once we realize they are all full of crap and know they are full of crap but push their crap for their own purposes we can understand the "rules of engagement" here.  Its hard to beat a cheater in a "fair" fight if you insist on playing fair.  That means stop trying to understand and compromise with them and start playing the game by the same rules.  

 

The key problems conservatives face when battling the left and things like CRT is they don't have a clearly articulated vision or agenda defining what they stand for and support along with most of them lacking guts to get down in the dirt and fight.  The left doesn't want to compromise and reach consensus.  So stop engaging the left like you're going to do that.  The left want obedience to and compliance of their agenda.   

 

Otherwise, I like your animal comparisons.  I have a lot of wild life around my home and I see squirrels tussle with other squirrels, deer tangle with other deer, even rabbits fight each other which is sometimes comical to see.  And other wild life.  But they do it without intent to kill.  I think one of the only species that kill one another are primates.  A branch of which humans are descended from. That might tell us something important too.  

Edited July 19, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[oldmanfan]

21 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Or the left does understand all of this and their agenda is just a big con to use race issues to gain power, influence, and control of society and all social and political narratives.  You suggest they are unaware or stupid.  I suggest they might just be sneaky and devious.  Once we realize they are all full of crap and know they are full of crap but push their crap for their own purposes we can understand the "rules of engagement" here.  Its hard to beat a cheater in a "fair" fight if you insist on playing fair.  That means stop trying to understand and compromise with them and start playing the game by the same rules.  

 

The key problems conservatives face when battling the left and things like CRT is they don't have a clearly articulated vision or agenda defining what they stand for and support along with most of them lacking guts to get down in the dirt and fight.  The left doesn't want to compromise and reach consensus.  So stop engaging the left like you're going to do that.  The left want obedience to and compliance of their agenda.   

 

Otherwise, I like your animal comparisons.  I have a lot of wild life around my home and I see squirrels tussle with other squirrels, deer tangle with other deer, even rabbits fight each other which is sometimes comical to see.  And other wild life.  But they do it without intent to kill.  I think one of the only species that kill one another are primates.  A branch of which humans are descended from. That might tell us something important too.  

 

As if conservatives want to compromise.  Give me a break.  Racism is a real thing in this country, we all know that.  Blacks that don't like whites, whites that don't like blacks, both who don't like Asians.  Racism is a subset of the overall intolerance of others who don't look and think like the biased person.   The crap that gays and transgender people have had to put up with and still put up with.  The fringes on both sides preach hatred against those whose opinions differ from theirs.  The only way we get rid of it is to bring it all out in the open and demand treating all equally, with everyone having the same rights as granted under the Constitution.  Not more rights to make up for past injustices like the far left wants, not less rights for some people like the far right wants.  The same rights.

 

Oh, and the comparison to animals?  One of the things that make humans a higher species is the ability of humans to reason.  Unfortunately that is in short supply these days.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

28 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

 

As if conservatives want to compromise.  Give me a break.  Racism is a real thing in this country, we all know that.  Blacks that don't like whites, whites that don't like blacks, both who don't like Asians.  Racism is a subset of the overall intolerance of others who don't look and think like the biased person.   The crap that gays and transgender people have had to put up with and still put up with.  The fringes on both sides preach hatred against those whose opinions differ from theirs.  The only way we get rid of it is to bring it all out in the open and demand treating all equally, with everyone having the same rights as granted under the Constitution.  Not more rights to make up for past injustices like the far left wants, not less rights for some people like the far right wants.  The same rights.

 

Oh, and the comparison to animals?  One of the things that make humans a higher species is the ability of humans to reason.  Unfortunately that is in short supply these days.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps you've missed my point.  While racism exists to some degree I'm convinced the left (and perhaps the right) has no desire to resolve those circumstances.  This movement carries the banner of a self-serving agenda.  Driven by intellectuals and aristocrats.  Not by people in communities living the experience.  Successful crusades result in no need for crusaders.  In this case resolving and addressing issues of racism would result in the elimination of these social movements.  

 

Also, we've had close to 60 years of programs and policies yet the consensus on the left is that things in 2021 are worse then ever.  It might as well be 1860 based on their view.  How is that possible?  Are you suggesting this is true?  That no progress in race relations or tolerance and fair treatment of others has been made since the Civil War? Confronted by facts that assessment is delusional.  Yet it drives all our social discussions. 

 

All I want is an open and honest discussion of the current realities not discussions and false remedies based on the political delusions of the left.  Nothing more nothing less. Not some pursuit of remedies based on a fantasy world that doesn't exist.  Its simply not possible to define proper solutions without aligning with reality and reality is something the radical left which is allowed to drive the social agenda refuses to engage with when it comes to the current status of race relations. 

Edited July 19, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[Westside]

25 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

 

As if conservatives want to compromise.  Give me a break.  Racism is a real thing in this country, we all know that.  Blacks that don't like whites, whites that don't like blacks, both who don't like Asians.  Racism is a subset of the overall intolerance of others who don't look and think like the biased person.   The crap that gays and transgender people have had to put up with and still put up with.  The fringes on both sides preach hatred against those whose opinions differ from theirs.  The only way we get rid of it is to bring it all out in the open and demand treating all equally, with everyone having the same rights as granted under the Constitution.  Not more rights to make up for past injustices like the far left wants, not less rights for some people like the far right wants.  The same rights.

 

Oh, and the comparison to animals?  One of the things that make humans a higher species is the ability of humans to reason.  Unfortunately that is in short supply these days.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Greed, being deceitful, killing other than to feed are also only known to the human species. Are we going to try to get rid of that as well? 
What you call racism, I call a part of our DNA. 

[Tiberius]

Just now, All_Pro_Bills said:

Perhaps you've missed my point.  While racism exists to some degree I'm convinced the left (and perhaps the right) has no desire to resolve those circumstances.  This movement carries the banner of a self-serving agenda.  Driven by intellectuals and aristocrats.  Not by people in communities living the experience.  Successful crusades result in no need for crusaders.  In this case resolving and addressing issues of racism would result in the elimination of these social movements.  

 

Also, we've had close to 60 years of programs and policies yet the consensus on the left is that things in 2021 are worse then ever.  It might as well be 1860 based on their view.  How is that possible?  Are you suggesting this is true?  That no progress in race relations or tolerance and fair treatment of others has been made since the Civil War? Confronted by facts that assessment is delusional.  Yet it drives all our social discussions. 

 

All I want is an open and honest discussion of the current realities not discussions and false remedies based on the political delusions of the left.  Nothing more nothing less. Not some pursuit of remedies based on a fantasy world that doesn't exist.  Its simply not possible to define proper solutions without diagnosing and addressing the problem and cause.

 

 

It’s not that, it’s that after just 60 years of some progress race and the history of racism still weighs heavily over the country. And that’s why history is important. Kids should not be lied to about the history. Blacks were hardly allowed to do anything until 60 years ago. CRT just pointed out that racism didn’t just end 60 years ago, it just took on more subtle forms. See the war on drugs as a good example 

[SoCal Deek]

And the Great Marxist Con Job continues on here, day after day after day. 

[oldmanfan]

12 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Perhaps you've missed my point.  While racism exists to some degree I'm convinced the left (and perhaps the right) has no desire to resolve those circumstances.  This movement carries the banner of a self-serving agenda.  Driven by intellectuals and aristocrats.  Not by people in communities living the experience.  Successful crusades result in no need for crusaders.  In this case resolving and addressing issues of racism would result in the elimination of these social movements.  

 

Also, we've had close to 60 years of programs and policies yet the consensus on the left is that things in 2021 are worse then ever.  It might as well be 1860 based on their view.  How is that possible?  Are you suggesting this is true?  That no progress in race relations or tolerance and fair treatment of others has been made since the Civil War? Confronted by facts that assessment is delusional.  Yet it drives all our social discussions. 

 

All I want is an open and honest discussion of the current realities not discussions and false remedies based on the political delusions of the left.  Nothing more nothing less. Not some pursuit of remedies based on a fantasy world that doesn't exist.  Its simply not possible to define proper solutions without aligning with reality and reality is something the radical left which is allowed to drive the social agenda refuses to engage with when it comes to the current status of race relations. 

If you want an open and honest discussion then you need to acknowledge that conservatives have a politically driven agenda as well. 
 

I think we have made progress since the 60s in terms of race relations.  But we have a long way to go.  And when you have blacks still being treated unequally when say applying for mortgages, when I know young black men in my community who will tell you they still get pulled over for no reason and still hear derogatory comments directed at them by their white counterparts, when you have the George Floyd type events such as the young black man in Georgia who was shot and killed because he was jogging in a more white neighborhood, then sorry those are real world events and not fantasies.

 

The reason why you have protests frustrations and such now from the black community is they see this and wonder when our society will truly be color blind.  And because they know there are folks like Biden’s Basement who want it to be that way.

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

If you want an open and honest discussion then you need to acknowledge that conservatives have a politically driven agenda as well. 
 

I think we have made progress since the 60s in terms of race relations.  But we have a long way to go.  And when you have blacks still being treated unequally when say applying for mortgages, when I know young black men in my community who will tell you they still get pulled over for no reason and still hear derogatory comments directed at them by their white counterparts, when you have the George Floyd type events such as the young black man in Georgia who was shot and killed because he was jogging in a more white neighborhood, then sorry those are real world events and not fantasies.

 

The reason why you have protests frustrations and such now from the black community is they see this and wonder when our society will truly be color blind.  And because they know there are folks like Biden’s Basement who want it to be that way.

 

 

Old Man….you believe young black men are pulled over because of slavery?  You’ve got to be kidding me right?

[unbillievable]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Old Man….you believe young black men are pulled over because of slavery?  You’ve got to be kidding me right?

 

I'm still waiting to see the magical radar gun that can tell the race of a driver.

[oldmanfan]

12 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Old Man….you believe young black men are pulled over because of slavery?  You’ve got to be kidding me right?

Where did I say that?  Don’t be ridiculous.  My daughters each have friends that are African-American that live in my town, and upper middle class town where over 90% of the population is white.  When I talk to these kids they tell me they get pulled over a lot and for no reason.  That’s reality.

 

Your comment just shows why this issue will likely never be resolved.  Instead of a honest dialog you take things and throw them wildly out of proportion.

 

 

11 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

 

I'm still waiting to see the magical radar gun that can tell the race of a driver.

So all you can do is deny and not face the fact this happens.  You’re the problem, not me.

29 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

And the Great Marxist Con Job continues on here, day after day after day. 

And throwing around the Marxist label.  Another classic deflection.

[All_Pro_Bills]

26 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

If you want an open and honest discussion then you need to acknowledge that conservatives have a politically driven agenda as well. 
 

I think we have made progress since the 60s in terms of race relations.  But we have a long way to go.  And when you have blacks still being treated unequally when say applying for mortgages, when I know young black men in my community who will tell you they still get pulled over for no reason and still hear derogatory comments directed at them by their white counterparts, when you have the George Floyd type events such as the young black man in Georgia who was shot and killed because he was jogging in a more white neighborhood, then sorry those are real world events and not fantasies.

 

The reason why you have protests frustrations and such now from the black community is they see this and wonder when our society will truly be color blind.  And because they know there are folks like Biden’s Basement who want it to be that way.

 

 

I think we can agree on many things.  And if people are violating the laws and principals of fair and equal treatment they need to be dealt with and suffer the consequences.  And the system should not protect them.  And not a single one of us should tolerate them or support that behavior.   I'm all for elimination of institutional and legal forms of discrimination.  And any biases those systems might generate.    

 

But where do you draw the line between legal protections of fair and equal treatment, proper and uniform (or color blind) enforcement of those protections, and the imposition of a mechanism for forcing private citizens into a belief system against their will?  Such as a black man who dislikes white people or a white man that dislikes black people.  Is it any business of "The State" that they "feel" that way if their beliefs do not result in any harm to either party?  Harm as defined by conforming or not conforming to the above mentioned legal protections.

 

Is it the role of government, through either schools or other institutions, or private corporations to indoctrinate its citizens and employees into some subjective social belief system like CRT and impose consequences for non-compliance?  Don't these actions violate the very principles and freedoms our system provides.  Is it moral and ethical to force people that do no real harm to each other to like each other?  Or at the very least pretend to like each other?      

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[Westside]

11 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Where did I say that?  Don’t be ridiculous.  My daughters each have friends that are African-American that live in my town, and upper middle class town where over 90% of the population is white.  When I talk to these kids they tell me they get pulled over a lot and for no reason.  That’s reality.

 

Your comment just shows why this issue will likely never be resolved.  Instead of a honest dialog you take things and throw them wildly out of proportion.

 

 

So all you can do is deny and not face the fact this happens.  You’re the problem, not me.

And throwing around the Marxist label.  Another classic deflection.

If they say they get pulled over for no reason then it must be true! 😏

[oldmanfan]

16 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I think we can agree on many things.  And if people are violating the laws and principals of fair and equal treatment they need to be dealt with and suffer the consequences.  And the system should not protect them.  And not a single one of us should tolerate them or support that behavior.   I'm all for elimination of institutional and legal forms of discrimination.  And any biases those systems might generate.    

 

But where do you draw the line between legal protections of fair and equal treatment, proper and uniform (or color blind) enforcement of those protections, and the imposition of a mechanism for forcing private citizens into a belief system against their will?  Such as a black man who dislikes white people or a white man that dislikes black people.  Is it any business of "The State" that they "feel" that way if their beliefs do not result in any harm to either party?  Harm as defined by conforming or not conforming to the above mentioned legal protections.

 

Is it the role of government, through either schools or other institutions, or private corporations to indoctrinate its citizens and employees into some subjective social belief system like CRT and impose consequences for non-compliance?  Don't these actions violate the very principles and freedoms our system provides.  Is it moral and ethical to force people that do no real harm to each other to like each other?  Or at the very least pretend to like each other?      

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting points.  From a private employer perspective, you educate your employees on DEI (and not CRT, let's not artificially conflate the two), because it helps you in the marketplace.  A more inclusive workforce attracts the most talent and as such should improve your bottom line.  From an educational perspective, the school system in my town just added a DEI officer; they did so primarily in response to reports of bullying and racist actions by students.  From a broader educational perspective, educators should not be afraid in introducing difficult concepts in class and having students discuss them.  I think CRT does not belong in secondary schools as the content is more complex than should be taken on there, but certainly in college and grad school. 

 

Should we legislate against how an individual feels about another individual?  No, and even if I thought we should it would be impossible logistically.  But individuals that act out on their anger or feelings can do harm to others, and then the legal system takes over.  I'd prefer it if things did not have to get to that extreme.  

 

One more thing.  Training on things like DEI is educational, it is not indoctrination and such.

18 minutes ago, Bidens_basement said:

If they say they get pulled over for no reason then it must be true! 😏

I have no reason to disbelieve them.  They're good kids.

[All_Pro_Bills]

17 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Interesting points.  From a private employer perspective, you educate your employees on DEI (and not CRT, let's not artificially conflate the two), because it helps you in the marketplace.  A more inclusive workforce attracts the most talent and as such should improve your bottom line.  From an educational perspective, the school system in my town just added a DEI officer; they did so primarily in response to reports of bullying and racist actions by students.  From a broader educational perspective, educators should not be afraid in introducing difficult concepts in class and having students discuss them.  I think CRT does not belong in secondary schools as the content is more complex than should be taken on there, but certainly in college and grad school. 

 

Should we legislate against how an individual feels about another individual?  No, and even if I thought we should it would be impossible logistically.  But individuals that act out on their anger or feelings can do harm to others, and then the legal system takes over.  I'd prefer it if things did not have to get to that extreme.  

 

One more thing.  Training on things like DEI is educational, it is not indoctrination and such.

Yes, I've been through diversity and cultural workshops in a few different jobs and I found them to be non-confrontation and generally constructive.  And a nice departure from the duties of the job for a couple days! 

 

The audience is typically a group of 20 to 25 business and technical employees representing a diverse demographic across age, race, gender, etc, from many organizations.  In the most recent cultural workshop an activity was a structured 5 minute "getting to know you" session where everyone was asked to describe their background, life experiences, and positive influences on their lives to date.  An insight I found most interesting was that although the group was "diverse" by the standards of demographics and grouping the stories everyone told had more in common than not.  Which I think is a significant point.  People might look different but fundamentally they all really quite similar.   Which reinforces my view that most social issues and problems are driven by class, education, and income disparities than other factors.

Edited July 19, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[Westside]

13 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Interesting points.  From a private employer perspective, you educate your employees on DEI (and not CRT, let's not artificially conflate the two), because it helps you in the marketplace.  A more inclusive workforce attracts the most talent and as such should improve your bottom line.  From an educational perspective, the school system in my town just added a DEI officer; they did so primarily in response to reports of bullying and racist actions by students.  From a broader educational perspective, educators should not be afraid in introducing difficult concepts in class and having students discuss them.  I think CRT does not belong in secondary schools as the content is more complex than should be taken on there, but certainly in college and grad school. 

 

Should we legislate against how an individual feels about another individual?  No, and even if I thought we should it would be impossible logistically.  But individuals that act out on their anger or feelings can do harm to others, and then the legal system takes over.  I'd prefer it if things did not have to get to that extreme.  

 

One more thing.  Training on things like DEI is educational, it is not indoctrination and such.

I have no reason to disbelieve them.  They're good kids.

I’m sure they are. Even good kids exaggerate, it’s in our DNA.