Biden Speaks

[BillStime]

 

[Melon]

7 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

There were a few years where the spiked but they went back down again last year.  

 

The FBI has yet to release their hate crime statistics for 2020 according to... the FBI. So where are you getting this claim from?

[aristocrat]

3 minutes ago, Melon said:

 

They are according to the FBI

 

 

 

 

Can you provide the numbers from 2020? I can't find them on the FBI website, but you claim they went down last year.

they don't come out until november. I may have been a year off on them.  But I will say...in a country of 400 million people and we have only 7300 crimes.  Hard to make an argument that the country is racist.  

[Melon]

1 minute ago, aristocrat said:

they don't come out until november. I may have been a year off on them.  But I will say...in a country of 400 million people and we have only 7300 crimes.  Hard to make an argument that the country is racist.  

 

They didn't go down last year, though, even according to this graph. 

 

Most racist acts are not crimes, either. If you and your buddy are talking about Lebron and call him the n-word, that won't be included in the statistics. But my uncle who swears he isn't racist said that last week.

 

If you're using hate crime charts to advocate for the country not being racist, you should also realize that very few agencies are actually reporting hate crimes. Wray talked about this in depth at his last hearing. Here is the most recent graph I can find.

 

 

 

[aristocrat]

Just now, Melon said:

 

They didn't go down last year, though, even according to this graph. 

 

Most racist acts are not crimes, either. If you and your buddy are talking about Lebron and call him the n-word, that won't be included in the statistics. But my uncle who swears he isn't racist said that last week.

 

If you're using hate crime charts to advocate for the country not being racist, you should also realize that very few agencies are actually reporting hate crimes. Wray talked about this in depth at his last hearing. Here is the most recent graph I can find.

 

 

 

 

Lol, so you have some guys talking ***** about minorities at home but aren't actively oppressing them right?  The minorities still have equal opportunities to have a great life here.   Guys sitting at home being racist doesn't really mean anything other than they're #######s. They will die off soon as will their racist ideas. As long as minorities have opportunites like any other man the country is on the right path.   

 

When you have to try really hard to prove we are a racist country by saying things like "yea but how about guys talking ***** about this random black guy" you are proving my point and ignoring facts.  

[Melon]

1 minute ago, aristocrat said:

you are proving my point and ignoring facts.  

 

You are literally making up facts about hate crime statistics and have yet to note you were incorrect that they decreased last year.

 

1 minute ago, aristocrat said:

 

Lol, so you have some guys talking ***** about minorities at home but aren't actively oppressing them right? 

 

You can't be the same Aristocrat that got banned from Sabresfans for being a racist, are you?

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

2 hours ago, The Governor said:

Every time I hear Joe and see these policies finally being passed, I always think of what Obama must think. Why is all of this so easy for Joe and they fought me on every little thing?

 

Is it race, or is it just a unique time in history, or is it both?

Oh yah Gov, it’s race.

 

 The smokescreen came when people voted Barrack Obama into the Oval Office, leader of the free world, role model to millions of young men, women and children and a symbol of the growth and evolution of the American experience.  
 

It was all a set up.  Hide in Plain Sight.  Criss/Cross Applesauce. A Puppet regime.   Manchurian Candidate.
 

All a set up for the TRUE leader of men and molester of women— the 95 year old Joe Biden.  
 

🤣🤣🤣 

[aristocrat]

2 minutes ago, Melon said:

 

You are literally making up facts about hate crime statistics and have yet to note you were incorrect that they decreased last year.

 

 

You can't be the same Aristocrat that got banned from Sabresfans for being a racist, are you?

 

I already mentioned I was wrong.  I was banned because a guy a used a slur against special needs people which hit home with my family and I went a little off the handle.  

But like I said.  7300 incidents in a country of 400 million is an extremely low percentage of incidents.  Hard to make the claim we're racist when it happens so rarely.

[Melon]

Just now, aristocrat said:

 

But like I said.  7300 incidents in a country of 400 million is an extremely low percentage of incidents.  Hard to make the claim we're racist when it happens so rarely.

 

Zero thoughts on the chart I provided or FBI Director Chris Wray's testimony that challenges this claim?

 

You're pretty good at defending racism.

[aristocrat]

1 minute ago, Melon said:

 

Zero thoughts on the chart I provided or FBI Director Chris Wray's testimony that challenges this claim?

 

You're pretty good at defending racism.

 

I already mentioned it.I was a year off.  I am not defending racism. Point to where exactly I defended racism.  GIve me an exact example. 

[Melon]

16 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

Lol, so you have some guys talking ***** about minorities at home but aren't actively oppressing them right?

 

 

2 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

I already mentioned it.I was a year off. 

 

You said hate crimes went down last year. They went up. 

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, aristocrat said:

 

I'll add. It is difficult when you have Biden passing the Crime and Drug Bills in the late 80's and early 90's which had such a terrible effect on minority communities by putting them in prison at an overwhelmingly higher rate than white people.  We still feel the effects of his awful policy to this day.  But it's ok we elected the guy who created all the problems to now solve all the problems I guess. 

 You're not much of a thinker are you?  Over the history of our country we've gone from slavery to having so few hate crimes.  Again, racism exists but it's rare.

Totally disagree 

[aristocrat]

5 minutes ago, Melon said:

 

 

 

You said hate crimes went down last year. They went up. 

Lol you are one heck of a troll man. what did i say right after that sentence that you cut and pasted?  Something about they will die and so will their racist ideas. ALso, I called those guys #######s in the post which was blocked out.  So in fact I was talking ***** about racists sitting at home.  

 

Now me being a year off on the year hate crimes went down means i am defending racism?  How is that defending racism?  Just means I was off a year on the stats.  

 

This is classic.  You have moved on from the discussion and have resorted to personal attacks.  Real nice. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by aristocrat

[Melon]

6 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

Lol you are one heck of a troll man. what did i say right after that sentence that you cut and pasted?  Something about they will die and so will their racist ideas. ALso, I called those guys #######s in the post which was blocked out.  So in fact I was talking ***** about racists sitting at home.  

 

You were defending their right to talk crap about minorities in private - even added an LOL like it's no big deal. Does it hit too close to home?

 

Some of those same folks are cops, doctors, paramedics, etc. To think they automatically stop their implicit bias on the job is laughable. 

 

That's the dark underbelly of racism that makes this country racist. 

 

6 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

This is classic.  You have moved on from the discussion and have resorted to personal attacks.  Real nice. 

 

You started the personal attacks then defended racism. That's on you.

 

1 hour ago, aristocrat said:

 You're not much of a thinker are you? 

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Melon

[aristocrat]

1 minute ago, Melon said:

 

You were defending their right to talk crap about minorities in private.

 

Some of those same folks are cops, doctors, paramedics, etc. To think they automatically stop their implicit bias on the job is laughable. 

 

That's the dark underbelly of racism that makes this country racist. 

 

 

No I was not defending their right to do that.  Good lord.  I called them ####### for doing that and hoped their ***** ideas died with them.  You are the problem man.  You can't have a discussion with someone about this without resorting to attacking them.   You know damn well that's not what I meant and you had to go and selectively edit my post to attack me.  Thats uncalled for. 

 

 

[Melon]

2 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

No I was not defending their right to do that.  Good lord.  I called them ####### for doing that and hoped their ***** ideas died with them.  You are the problem man.  You can't have a discussion with someone about this without resorting to attacking them.   You know damn well that's not what I meant and you had to go and selectively edit my post to attack me.  Thats uncalled for. 

 

 

 

You literally laughed at the idea of two racists making racist remarks. This is a great example of what you claimed did not exist earlier - publicly advocating for equality while laughing about it in private.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Melon

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

 

What was the deal with the masks?  Were they planning to go out and rob a bank after the speech?  A room full of completely vaccinated people that can't get sick.  All for show I guess and more patronizing virtue signalling.   

They’re following CDC guidelines. I don’t see the problem. I’d actually prefer pelosi does it forever 
 

[aristocrat]

1 minute ago, Melon said:

 

You literally laughed at the idea of two racists making racist remarks. This is a great example of what you claimed did not exist earlier - publicly advocating for equality while laughing about it in private.

 

no i laughed at your idea that it somehow makes our country racist.  Literally my first post said...racism exists but our country isn't racist.  So you are 100 percent wrong in making the claim that i said racism doesn't exist.  You are literally making ***** up now.  What is your problem?  

 

You have literally made up a scenario of people in their basements making racist remarks. I will agree that people do make these statements in private but you have no proof as to how many there are.   So you are speaking in total hypotheticals.  You are resorting to personal attacks.  It's bush league man. 

[BillStime]

 

[Melon]

1 minute ago, aristocrat said:

you are 100 percent wrong in making the claim that i said racism doesn't exist.  You are literally making ***** up now.  What is your problem?  

 

Whine some more, please.

 

I never made that claim. I claimed that you said publicly advocating for equality while laughing about it in private did not exist. You actually called it "a fantasy land." 

 

So publily they're supporting policy that helps minorites but at home they're racist.  So in the end minorities are treated equally but some ass is sitting at home pouting about it but doesn't actually hurt minorities?  That's quite an argument.  Not exactly sure what to do with that.  It's like a fantasy land for someone who is desperate for racism to exist.

 

 

You actually said "pubily" - so I guess you win.

[Unforgiven]

34 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

I already mentioned I was wrong.  I was banned because a guy a used a slur against special needs people which hit home with my family and I went a little off the handle.  

But like I said.  7300 incidents in a country of 400 million is an extremely low percentage of incidents.  Hard to make the claim we're racist when it happens so rarely.

Using statistics is a hate crime, as well as raysis.

Well soon to be.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

25 minutes ago, Melon said:

 

 

 

You said hate crimes went down last year. They went up. 

All violent crime went up. And I’m not sure wtf unhateful violent crime even is. 
 

this is all a manufactured crisis to rally the vote and mana fest control. New federal police force coming soon. 

[aristocrat]

Just now, Melon said:

 

Whine some more, please.

 

I never made that claim. I claimed that you said publicly advocating for equality while laughing about it in private did not exist. You actually called it "a fantasy land." 

 

So publily they're supporting policy that helps minorites but at home they're racist.  So in the end minorities are treated equally but some ass is sitting at home pouting about it but doesn't actually hurt minorities?  That's quite an argument.  Not exactly sure what to do with that.  It's like a fantasy land for someone who is desperate for racism to exist.

 

It is fantasy land.  How many people exactly are in their basements doing this?  I would like an exact number.  

 

 

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, Melon said:

 

Agree to disagree

 

Go Bills

 

 

 

So you're saying it's not rare. Medium rare, well done?  Sorry Chef humor. 

 

But seriously if it's not rare how widespread is it?  I wouldn't say it's rare either but I also don't think it's systemic.  That term has been thrown out there constantly with little of no proof it's systemic in any aspect of life.  

1 hour ago, Melon said:

 

They are according to the FBI

 

 

 

 

Can you provide the numbers from 2020? I can't find them on the FBI website, but you claim they went down last year.

 

Hate crimes involve a lot more than just race.  But you knew that. 

[Melon]

3 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

It is fantasy land.  How many people exactly are in their basements doing this?  I would like an exact number.  

 

 

 

A systemic amount

[aristocrat]

Just now, Melon said:

 

A systemic amount

 

Give me a number.  Anything other than a number you can prove is in fact fantasy. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

Give me a number.  Anything other than a number you can prove is in fact fantasy. 

They have no idea. It’s just what they’ve been told. They have no choice but to believe it. Just like throwing Virgins into volcanos. Me no wanna make volcano angry.  System no like brown people. The useful idiots must replicate the message like a virus. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Unforgiven]

13 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I love how Joe is talking about how all the corporations that donated to his campaign are going finally pay their fair share 🙄 

You’re right that’s even more fitting for you. Appreciate the support 

Democrats been screwing over their voters for decades...they seem pretty masochistic

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, Unforgiven said:

Democrats been screwing over their voters for decades...they seem pretty masochistic

So have the Rs. They need to get rid of political parties. 

[B-Man]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

So have the Rs. They need to get rid of political parties. 

 

 

[Melon]

22 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

Give me a number. 

 

 

Impossible to prove but it's systemic

 

20 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

They have no idea. It’s just what they’ve been told. 

 

been told Experienced 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Melon

[B-Man]

 

 

Read Republican Sen. Tim Scott's response to Biden's address to Congress

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/28/politics/tim-scott-response-transcript/index.html

 

 

 

[Unforgiven]

AP FACT CHECK: Biden skews record on migrants; GOP on virus

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ap-fact-check-claims-bidens-022008440.html

 

Uh oh...AP actually fact checking Joe?

 

A look at some of the claims:

IMMIGRATION

BIDEN: “If you believe in a pathway to citizenship, pass (immigration legislation) so over 11 million undocumented folks, the vast majority who are here overstaying visas, pass it.”

THE FACTS: He's making an unsubstantiated claim. 

There is no official count of how many people entered the country legally and overstayed visas. The government estimates that 11.4 million were living in the country illegally as of January 2018 but doesn’t distinguish between how many entered legally and stayed after their visas expired and how many arrived illegally.

Robert Warren of the Center for Migration Studies of New York, a former director of the Immigration and Naturalization Service’s statistics division who has studied visa overstays for decades, has done the most recent work on the issue. He estimated that, as of 2018, 46% of people in the country illegally overstayed visas — not a majority, let alone a “vast majority.”

___

BIDEN: “When I was vice president, the president asked me to focus on providing help needed to address the root causes of migration. And it helped keep people in their own countries instead of being forced to leave. The plan was working, but the last administration decided it was not worth it. I’m restoring the program and I asked Vice President Harris to lead our diplomatic effort to take care of this.”

THE FACTS: That’s wrong.

Biden led Obama’s efforts to address a spike in migration from Central America, but poverty and violence have been endemic for decades. Hundreds of millions of dollars of U.S. aid have gone to Central America annually, even during Donald Trump’s presidency, but migration from Mexico and Central America has continued unabated with periodic spikes.

In March, the number of unaccompanied children encountered by U.S. border authorities reached nearly 19,000, the highest number on record in the third major surge of families and children from Central America since 2014 under both Democratic and Republican administrations.

Biden championed aid during what Obama called “a humanitarian crisis” of Central American children at the border in 2014. But while assistance fell under Trump, hundreds of millions of dollars have flowed in every year. Biden has proposed $861 million in Central American aid next year as a first installment on a $4 billion plan, compared with annual outlays of between $506 million and $750 million over the previous six years.

___

SPENDING

BIDEN, on his economic proposals: “There’s a broad consensus of economists — left, right, center — and they agree that what I’m proposing will help create millions of jobs and generate historic economic growth.”

THE FACTS: He’s glossing over the naysayers. Some economists, also bridging the ideological spectrum, say he’s spending too much or in the wrong way. Biden’s pandemic relief plan did enjoy some bipartisan support, even getting a general seal of approval from Kevin Hassett, who was Trump’s chief economist. But his policies have also drawn bipartisan criticism.

For one, Larry Summers, who was Barack Obama’s top economist and Bill Clinton’s treasury secretary, warned that Biden’s relief package risks rates of inflation not seen in a generation. 

Biden’s latest proposals on infrastructure and families would require substantial tax increases on corporations and wealthy investors — leading to criticism by many CEOs and more conservative economists that growth could be compromised. Biden’s economics team says the resulting programs and infrastructure would boost growth.

The plan to increase capital gains taxes drew the scorn of Douglas Holtz-Eakin, a former director of the Congressional Budget Office and Republican adviser. He said the White House is wrong to focus on the sliver of people being taxed and what matters is how much of the economy would be taxed.

“The wealth taxes are a draconian tax on the annual return to that capital,” he said. “What matters is the amount of economic activity that is taxed, not the number of people.”

___

BIDEN: “We kept our commitment, Democrats and Republicans, sending $1,400 rescue checks to 85% of all American households.”

THE FACTS: Republicans made no such commitment.

Republicans in both the U.S. Senate and House opposed the bill containing the $1,400 stimulus checks, known as the American Rescue Plan, portraying it as too big and too bloated.

All but one Democrat supported the legislation.

While no Republicans voted for this year’s coronavirus bill, they supported sending checks to Americans in previous rounds of relief legislation. A relief law passed with overwhelming bipartisan support in December, when Trump was still president, provided $600 checks to many Americans.

Some Republicans have boasted to their constituents about programs created by the coronavirus bill despite voting against it.

___

DRUG PRICES

BIDEN, arguing that Congress should authorize Medicare to negotiate prescription drug prices. “And by the way, that won’t just help people on Medicare — it will lower prescription drug costs for everyone.” 

THE FACTS: That may be a bit of wishful thinking.

Under House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s bill, private insurers that cover working-age Americans and their families would indeed be able to get the same discounts as Medicare. But while Pelosi should be able to drive her legislation through the House, the situation in the Senate is different. 

If just a few Democratic senators have qualms about her expansive approach, Biden may have to settle for less. So there’s no guarantee that a final bill would lower prescription drug costs for everyone.

[Melon]

Now the lemmings love the media

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

24 minutes ago, Melon said:

 

 

Impossible to prove but it's systemic

 

 

been told Experienced 

Please explain 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

13 minutes ago, Unforgiven said:

AP FACT CHECK: Biden skews record on migrants; GOP on virus

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ap-fact-check-claims-bidens-022008440.html

 

Uh oh...AP actually fact checking Joe?

 

A look at some of the claims:

IMMIGRATION

BIDEN: “If you believe in a pathway to citizenship, pass (immigration legislation) so over 11 million undocumented folks, the vast majority who are here overstaying visas, pass it.”

THE FACTS: He's making an unsubstantiated claim. 

There is no official count of how many people entered the country legally and overstayed visas. The government estimates that 11.4 million were living in the country illegally as of January 2018 but doesn’t distinguish between how many entered legally and stayed after their visas expired and how many arrived illegally.

Robert Warren of the Center for Migration Studies of New York, a former director of the Immigration and Naturalization Service’s statistics division who has studied visa overstays for decades, has done the most recent work on the issue. He estimated that, as of 2018, 46% of people in the country illegally overstayed visas — not a majority, let alone a “vast majority.”

___

BIDEN: “When I was vice president, the president asked me to focus on providing help needed to address the root causes of migration. And it helped keep people in their own countries instead of being forced to leave. The plan was working, but the last administration decided it was not worth it. I’m restoring the program and I asked Vice President Harris to lead our diplomatic effort to take care of this.”

THE FACTS: That’s wrong.

Biden led Obama’s efforts to address a spike in migration from Central America, but poverty and violence have been endemic for decades. Hundreds of millions of dollars of U.S. aid have gone to Central America annually, even during Donald Trump’s presidency, but migration from Mexico and Central America has continued unabated with periodic spikes.

In March, the number of unaccompanied children encountered by U.S. border authorities reached nearly 19,000, the highest number on record in the third major surge of families and children from Central America since 2014 under both Democratic and Republican administrations.

Biden championed aid during what Obama called “a humanitarian crisis” of Central American children at the border in 2014. But while assistance fell under Trump, hundreds of millions of dollars have flowed in every year. Biden has proposed $861 million in Central American aid next year as a first installment on a $4 billion plan, compared with annual outlays of between $506 million and $750 million over the previous six years.

___

SPENDING

BIDEN, on his economic proposals: “There’s a broad consensus of economists — left, right, center — and they agree that what I’m proposing will help create millions of jobs and generate historic economic growth.”

THE FACTS: He’s glossing over the naysayers. Some economists, also bridging the ideological spectrum, say he’s spending too much or in the wrong way. Biden’s pandemic relief plan did enjoy some bipartisan support, even getting a general seal of approval from Kevin Hassett, who was Trump’s chief economist. But his policies have also drawn bipartisan criticism.

For one, Larry Summers, who was Barack Obama’s top economist and Bill Clinton’s treasury secretary, warned that Biden’s relief package risks rates of inflation not seen in a generation. 

Biden’s latest proposals on infrastructure and families would require substantial tax increases on corporations and wealthy investors — leading to criticism by many CEOs and more conservative economists that growth could be compromised. Biden’s economics team says the resulting programs and infrastructure would boost growth.

The plan to increase capital gains taxes drew the scorn of Douglas Holtz-Eakin, a former director of the Congressional Budget Office and Republican adviser. He said the White House is wrong to focus on the sliver of people being taxed and what matters is how much of the economy would be taxed.

“The wealth taxes are a draconian tax on the annual return to that capital,” he said. “What matters is the amount of economic activity that is taxed, not the number of people.”

___

BIDEN: “We kept our commitment, Democrats and Republicans, sending $1,400 rescue checks to 85% of all American households.”

THE FACTS: Republicans made no such commitment.

Republicans in both the U.S. Senate and House opposed the bill containing the $1,400 stimulus checks, known as the American Rescue Plan, portraying it as too big and too bloated.

All but one Democrat supported the legislation.

While no Republicans voted for this year’s coronavirus bill, they supported sending checks to Americans in previous rounds of relief legislation. A relief law passed with overwhelming bipartisan support in December, when Trump was still president, provided $600 checks to many Americans.

Some Republicans have boasted to their constituents about programs created by the coronavirus bill despite voting against it.

___

DRUG PRICES

BIDEN, arguing that Congress should authorize Medicare to negotiate prescription drug prices. “And by the way, that won’t just help people on Medicare — it will lower prescription drug costs for everyone.” 

THE FACTS: That may be a bit of wishful thinking.

Under House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s bill, private insurers that cover working-age Americans and their families would indeed be able to get the same discounts as Medicare. But while Pelosi should be able to drive her legislation through the House, the situation in the Senate is different. 

If just a few Democratic senators have qualms about her expansive approach, Biden may have to settle for less. So there’s no guarantee that a final bill would lower prescription drug costs for everyone.

Why would anyone here illegally want to be a citizen. You can already vote and get hand outs but it’s easier to evade taxes and you won’t risk getting drafted to go fight a political war in some impoverished nation. 
 

[aristocrat]

30 minutes ago, Melon said:

 

 

Impossible to prove but it's systemic

 

 

been told Experienced 

 

Ok, so you have some imaginary number of people in their basements spewing racist bs.  In fact, as you said it's unproven that number could be zero.  Now i am a reasonable enough person to know that it is not zero.  Now, all these Dr's, lawyers, paramedics as you said are doing this in private but in public are acting like a normal person should.  So they really have no effect on a minority person do they?   If they privately spew bull#### they are in fact racist and two faced ***** people but if it's left at home it really has no effect on minorities does it?  Btw this is your argument....that people are privately doing this.  I just want to be very clear I am not defending them for doing it in private I am just trying to understand how it would effect someone if they in fact do not face it.  This is your fantasy....all these people being all racist in their basements but apparently not doing it publicly.  You have no way of proving it actually exists but you claim it's some huge number. 

[billsfan89]

25 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Why would anyone here illegally want to be a citizen. You can already vote and get hand outs but it’s easier to evade taxes and you won’t risk getting drafted to go fight a political war in some impoverished nation. 
 

 

You can't "get hand outs" or vote if you are an illegal immigrant. You can't collect welfare or any public assistance/benefits without a social security number. The only public resources that illegals get access to are hospitals (call me crazy but we shouldn't just let people in a medical emergency die) and schooling (call me crazy again but we shouldn't have children not being educated esp since most likely they are only in the country because of their parents.) Now those aren't insignificant costs and you can debate wither or not those costs are burdensome compared to the labor, consumption taxes, other non-income taxes and  economic activity they generate but do not act like they are able to collect on public benefits or have such a sweet deal. Having deportation hanging over the head of you are your families lives daily along with not being able to have other rights is not a cherry deal. 

[US Egg]

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/dec/4/joe-biden-gets-high-marks-not-drooling/

[reddogblitz]

15 hours ago, BillStime said:

So nice to have an American President 

 

 

 

Shining city on a hill?