Presidential Debates 2020

[3rdnlng]

35 minutes ago, Bills!Win! said:

it’s ok to keep spamming the same message? 

No, it is not. For the first time ever here at PPP I've considered reporting someone. This is a habit of his.

[Backintheday544]

3 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

Here’s the thing though, most people, nearly all in fact, don’t understand the complexities of tax filings far less complex than the President’s.

 

Heck, most people don’t understand a document as simple and straightforward as a 1099R.

They literally have no ability to comprehend them, and so their understanding becomes whatever a hostile press tells them their understanding is.  In this case they buried  the fact that his tax filings conclusively reveal no troublesome financial dealings with Russia, but pushed the false notion that the President doesn’t pay taxes.

 

There is no political upside to releasing them, since the media won’t cover them honestly anyhow.

 

No one has seen the filings so to say conclusively is a stretch. It's not like he would disclose under Other Income - Bribe from Putin. Which is why I said filings won't show anything bad until the SDNY investigation.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Just now, Backintheday544 said:

 

No one has seen the filings so to say conclusively is a stretch. It's not like he would disclose under Other Income - Bribe from Putin. Which is why I said filings won't show anything bad until the SDNY investigation.

The Mueller investigation already had full access to them.

[The Frankish Reich]

1 minute ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

I told you.  He just wants the base fired up.  He did that.  

 

And its 47% and that will be enough again.  Unless they get enough fake ballots.   

Well, 52-47 (with one point to minor candidates) is very unlikely to result in an electoral college win. 

So it's a strategy, and probably all he's got (since you ain't gonna budge the > 50% who think he's the worst thing since Andrew Johnson), but it's a super longshot.

 

[Backintheday544]

4 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Now there's a stretch. @Backintheday, would you expect to see that level of granularity in these filings?

 

No. There is not. Americans shouldn't look at tax filings to find a bad I gotcha. They should look at them for things like conflicts of interest.

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Like Biden?

Biden has won multiple election to the senate. The point is Trumps base isn't going to vote for Biden it's never going to happen. He needs people in the middle and people in the middle want a President who knows the answer to "Do you disavow white supremacists?" is "Yes."

[The Frankish Reich]

2 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

 

No. There is not. Americans shouldn't look at tax filings to find a bad I gotcha. They should look at them for things like conflicts of interest.

Thanks. That's what I thought. Lots of bases for further questions (that's why I suspect he's been hiding them) but not that damning in and of themselves (other than the embarrassing fact that he paid little or no taxes in 10 of 15 years)

[Backintheday544]

1 minute ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

The Mueller investigation already had full access to them.

 

They weren't auditing them and I've said it a couple times, Americans don't need tax returns to search for fraud, they need it to see where income comes from and conflict of interest. We still hear how did the Clinton's get all that money? Well you can look at their return and see their royalty income from speaking and writing. It doesn't show if they fudged deductions or are hiding illegal money from the Clinton Foundation, but we can at least see where the income is from per their word.

[The Frankish Reich]

Just now, Warcodered said:

Biden has won multiple election to the senate. The point is Trumps base isn't going to vote for Biden it's never going to happen. He needs people in the middle and people in the middle want a President who knows the answer to "Do you disavow white supremacists?" is "Yes."

And he did win on the Obama ticket twice. It's not like he's a perpetual loser even though his prior presidential runs were busts.

[Big Blitz]

3 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

He might as well of had his hand up Biden's ass because he was his puppet master...

 

Softballs to Biden

 

Attacking Trump

 

Rescuing Biden when he had a fork in him

 

Talking over Trump every time he began answering

 

Actually debating Trump like he was his opponent

 

Allowing Biden to retort everything but never letting Trump respond

 

 

 

Guess what.

 

Millions of others saw this to.  

 

And Team Trump knew that would happen.  That plays into his bull in a China shop approach.

 

Mitt played smart nice and reasonable. Didn't matter did it.  And I thought he outclassed Obama at each debate.  Didn't matter.  No one really liked him.   

 

The moderators will not ever let their guy or gal hang out to dry.  And the media will tell you the next day why no matter what their guy won.  

 

 

I thought Kerry beat Bush pretty good in debate 1.  Didn't matter.  

 

They only matter if you have a nation full of undecideds.  And we just don't.  These debates are officially outdated.  Trump uses them for the right reasons.  

[Backintheday544]

1 minute ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Guess what.

 

Millions of others saw this to.  

 

And Team Trump knew that would happen.  That plays into his bull in a China shop approach.

 

Mitt played smart nice and reasonable. Didn't matter did it.  And I thought he outclassed Obama at each debate.  Didn't matter.  No one really liked him.   

 

The moderators will not ever let their guy or gal hang out to dry.  And the media will tell you the next day why no matter what their guy won.  

 

 

I thought Kerry beat Bush pretty good in debate 1.  Didn't matter.  

 

They only matter if you have a nation full of undecideds.  And we just don't.  These debates are officially outdated.  Trump uses them for the right reasons.  

 

Agreed. Debates aren't really needed anymore with the level of access.and information the American population have now.

[Big Blitz]

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

Biden has won multiple election to the senate. The point is Trumps base isn't going to vote for Biden it's never going to happen. He needs people in the middle and people in the middle want a President who knows the answer to "Do you disavow white supremacists?" is "Yes."

 

 

No.  This year they want to know why their kids arent in school and they can't get within 6 feet of anyone anywhere but their governors can.  

 

Wallace didnt really seem to care about that.  Just that Trump has killed 200K people......not saved 2 million.  

[The Frankish Reich]

From fivethirtyeight.com

 

This is, of course, a rough calculation of how individual battleground states will likely fall out based on the national popular vote.

But it does show that a strategy of getting 47% of the popular vote (apparently Trump's strategy) isn't such a good one, but it's all he's got.

NOTE: Trump got 46.1 percent of the popular vote in 2016. Almost 5% went to minor parties. That won't happen this year since there is almost no support for any of the minor party candidates.

 

To be favored, Biden must win the popular vote by 3+ points

Biden’s chances of victory at different national popular vote scenarios, plus the likelihood of those scenarios, according to the FiveThirtyEight presidential model as of 9:15 a.m. Eastern on Sept. 28

NATIONAL POPULAR VOTE SCENARIO	SCENARIO CHANCE	BIDEN CHANCE IN SCENARIO
Trump wins popular vote	10%	0.8%
Biden wins by 0 to 1 points	3	7.4
Biden wins by 1 to 2 points	4	19.7
Biden wins by 2 to 3 points	5	44.9
Biden wins by 3 to 4 points	6	69.6
Biden wins by 4 to 5 points	6	88.4
Biden wins by 5 to 6 points	7	96.0
Biden wins by 6 to 7 points	7	98.9
Biden wins by 7 to 8 points	7	99.8
Biden wins by 8 or more points	43	100.0

Edited September 30, 2020 by The Frankish Reich

[IDBillzFan]

46 minutes ago, Bills!Win! said:

it’s ok to keep spamming the same message? 

 

That's all he ever does. Same few, stupid comments. Over and over. Put him on ignore.  Pure addition by subtraction. 

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

No.  This year they want to know why their kids arent in school and they can't get within 6 feet of anyone anywhere but their governors can.  

 

Wallace didnt really seem to care about that.  Just that Trump has killed 200K people......not saved 2 million.  

[Backintheday544]

Just now, IDBillzFan said:

 

That's all he ever does. Same few, stupid comments. Over and over. Put him on ignore.  Pure addition by subtraction. 

 

He's saying it over and over again, but I think and this is my opinion.... We know the the policy points going into it. The debate lets us see the person and what they stand for.

 

If you were undecided going in, can you vote for a person that had such a hard time and eventually couldn't condemn white nationalism?

 

[Big Blitz]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

From fivethirtyeight.com

 

This is, of course, a rough calculation of how individual battleground states will likely fall out based on the national popular vote.

But it does show that a strategy of getting 47% of the popular vote (apparently Trump's strategy) isn't such a good one, but it's all he's got.

 

To be favored, Biden must win the popular vote by 3+ points

Biden’s chances of victory at different national popular vote scenarios, plus the likelihood of those scenarios, according to the FiveThirtyEight presidential model as of 9:15 a.m. Eastern on Sept. 28

NATIONAL POPULAR VOTE SCENARIO	SCENARIO CHANCE	BIDEN CHANCE IN SCENARIO
Trump wins popular vote	10%	0.8%
Biden wins by 0 to 1 points	3	7.4
Biden wins by 1 to 2 points	4	19.7
Biden wins by 2 to 3 points	5	44.9
Biden wins by 3 to 4 points	6	69.6
Biden wins by 4 to 5 points	6	88.4
Biden wins by 5 to 6 points	7	96.0
Biden wins by 6 to 7 points	7	98.9
Biden wins by 7 to 8 points	7	99.8
Biden wins by 8 or more points	43	100.0

 

 

Yup.  Biden can win by 4 and its basically 50/50.

 

He lost to Hillary by 2 million plus.  He can lose by 5 million and still win: 

 

 

"But the concentration of demographic change in noncompetitive states, particularly California and Texas, threatens to further widen the chasm between the popular vote and the Electoral College, easing his path. Trump could once again win with less than 47 percent, a victory threshold far below the share of the popular vote the Democratic nominee might need.

 

The ultimate nightmare scenario for Democrats might look something like this: Trump loses the popular vote by more than 5 million ballots, and the Democratic nominee converts Michigan and Pennsylvania back to blue. But Trump wins re-election by two Electoral votes by barely hanging onto Arizona, Florida, North Carolina, Wisconsin and Maine's 2nd Congressional District — one of the whitest and least college-educated districts in the country."

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/how-trump-could-lose-5-million-votes-still-win-2020-n1031601

[Backintheday544]

1 minute ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Yup.  Biden can win by 4 and its basically 50/50.

 

He lost to Hillary by 2 million plus.  He can lose by 5 million and still win: 

 

 

"But the concentration of demographic change in noncompetitive states, particularly California and Texas, threatens to further widen the chasm between the popular vote and the Electoral College, easing his path. Trump could once again win with less than 47 percent, a victory threshold far below the share of the popular vote the Democratic nominee might need.

 

The ultimate nightmare scenario for Democrats might look something like this: Trump loses the popular vote by more than 5 million ballots, and the Democratic nominee converts Michigan and Pennsylvania back to blue. But Trump wins re-election by two Electoral votes by barely hanging onto Arizona, Florida, North Carolina, Wisconsin and Maine's 2nd Congressional District — one of the whitest and least college-educated districts in the country."

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/how-trump-could-lose-5-million-votes-still-win-2020-n1031601

 

AZ is going Biden it looks like. FL, NC are who knows. WI seems good for Biden but it was one of the few states final polls were way wrong about.

 

That Maine 2nd District may decide things

 

[The Frankish Reich]

4 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Yup.  Biden can win by 4 and its basically 50/50.

 

He lost to Hillary by 2 million plus.  He can lose by 5 million and still win: 

 

 

"But the concentration of demographic change in noncompetitive states, particularly California and Texas, threatens to further widen the chasm between the popular vote and the Electoral College, easing his path. Trump could once again win with less than 47 percent, a victory threshold far below the share of the popular vote the Democratic nominee might need.

 

The ultimate nightmare scenario for Democrats might look something like this: Trump loses the popular vote by more than 5 million ballots, and the Democratic nominee converts Michigan and Pennsylvania back to blue. But Trump wins re-election by two Electoral votes by barely hanging onto Arizona, Florida, North Carolina, Wisconsin and Maine's 2nd Congressional District — one of the whitest and least college-educated districts in the country."

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/how-trump-could-lose-5-million-votes-still-win-2020-n1031601

The problem for Trump on these numbers: third party candidates got almost 5% of the vote in 2016. They will probably get more on the order of 1% this year.

Hard to imagine that those people will break for Trump in anything more than, say, a 2 (Biden) to 1 (Trump) ratio. Most of these people were anti-Hillary but not pro-Trump, and there's little reason they'd be converted to Trump now. And those people vote regularly -- it takes a pretty committed voter to bother to fill out a ballot for a candidate who is certain to lose.

So that means Trump stuck at 47 max probably gets Biden to his 5 point margin. And that's very likely to result in an electoral college victory too.

Edited September 30, 2020 by The Frankish Reich

[Rob's House]

Wallace: Will you condemn white supremacists ...?

 

President Trump: Sure

 

Liberals: THE PRESIDENT REFUSED TO CONDEMN WHITE SUPREMACISTS!!!

[Backintheday544]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

The problem for Trump on these numbers: third party candidates got almost 5% of the vote in 2016. They will probably get more on the order of 1% this year.

Hard to imagine that those people will break for Trump in anything more than, say, a 2 (Biden) to 1 (Trump) ratio. Most of these people were anti-Hillary but not pro-Trump, and there's little reason they'd be converted to Trump now.

So that means Trump stuck at 47 max probably gets Biden to his 5 point margin. And that's very likely to result in an electoral college victory too.

 

That seems to be a good reason why the Republican lawyers are helping Kanye so much.

[The Frankish Reich]

Just now, Backintheday544 said:

 

That seems to be a good reason why the Republican lawyers are helping Kanye so much.

That's right. But ... despite my rule of "it is impossible to underestimate people" it seems like this is gaining zero traction.

[Backintheday544]

1 minute ago, Rob's House said:

Wallace: Will you condemn white supremacists ...?

 

President Trump: Sure

 

Liberals: THE PRESIDENT REFUSED TO CONDEMN WHITE SUPREMACISTS!!!

 

For the real quote;

 

During a segment dedicated to race, Chris Wallace, the moderator, asked Trump, "Are you willing, tonight, to condemn white supremacists and militia groups and to say that they need to stand down?"

 

Trump tiptoed around the question and instead doubled down that "almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right wing."

 

Wallace pushed back on Trump, along with former Vice President Joe Biden, and again asked him to address right-wing violence

 

"What do you want to call them?" Trump asked. "Give me a name, give me a name."

"Proud Boys," Biden said, referring to a far-right group.

"Proud Boys, stand back and stand by," Trump responded.

[TakeYouToTasker]

21 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

 

They weren't auditing them and I've said it a couple times, Americans don't need tax returns to search for fraud, they need it to see where income comes from and conflict of interest. We still hear how did the Clinton's get all that money? Well you can look at their return and see their royalty income from speaking and writing. It doesn't show if they fudged deductions or are hiding illegal money from the Clinton Foundation, but we can at least see where the income is from per their word.

They took the information gained under a microscope, and conducted a broad based criminal investigation into them, which turned up tax fraud committed by Trump’s former lawyer.

[transplantbillsfan]

28 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

I've been saying this since 2015.  From the Blood coming out of Megyn Kelly's eyes or whatever he said.  That was August 2015.  His introduction to America in the first GOP debate.  

 

He hasn't changed. 

 

It hasn't mattered.  

 

He keeps winning.  

 

But sure tell them what to do. 

 

I think he knows exactly what he wanted to do.

 

It hasn't mattered???

 

He keeps winning???

 

Are you living in an alternate reality where President Trump has already won a 2nd term???

 

Donald Trump won the 2016 election. If somehow that equals "he keeps winning" to you... well... 

31 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

There was no bigger softball than "Do you condemn white supremacists." That's kind of like "Do you condemn running over kittens with lawnmowers?"

Trump flubbed it all by himself, no help from Chris Wallace or Joe Biden.

 

One of the most disgusting and pathetic moments of the debate. It's probably going to be in an ad tomorrow.

[Rob's House]

7 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

 

For the real quote;

 

During a segment dedicated to race, Chris Wallace, the moderator, asked Trump, "Are you willing, tonight, to condemn white supremacists and militia groups and to say that they need to stand down?"

 

Trump tiptoed around the question and instead doubled down that "almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right wing."

 

Wallace pushed back on Trump, along with former Vice President Joe Biden, and again asked him to address right-wing violence

 

"What do you want to call them?" Trump asked. "Give me a name, give me a name."

"Proud Boys," Biden said, referring to a far-right group.

"Proud Boys, stand back and stand by," Trump responded.

 

Except you conveniently cut out the answer to Wallace's first question, which was "sure."

 

Then when they followed up and he asked them which group they wanted him to tell to "stand down" they said Proud Boys (not a white supremacist or militia group, BTW) and he told them to stand down.

 

The big "gotcha" that you're clinging to is that he also said "stand by."

 

I guess you gotta take your talking points where you can get them.

[Sherlock Holmes]

35 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

There was no bigger softball than "Do you condemn white supremacists." That's kind of like "Do you condemn running over kittens with lawnmowers?"

Trump flubbed it all by himself, no help from Chris Wallace or Joe Biden.

So the fact he didn't start screaming it at that exact moment even though he has denounced them before means none of those other times ever counted right?

[Backintheday544]

Just now, Rob's House said:

 

Except you conveniently cut out the answer to Wallace's first question, which was "sure."

 

Then when they followed up and he asked them which group they wanted him to tell to "stand down" they said Proud Boys (not a white supremacist or militia group, BTW) and he told them to stand down.

 

The big "gotcha" that you're clinging to is that he also said "stand by."

 

I guess you gotta take your talking points where you can get them.

 

Sure didn't denounce anything. He flippantly was like sure

 

He said stand down and stand by. Why you leave out the stand by? Proud Boys has ties to white supremacists don't know how that's debatable.

 

He also never said, i condemn white nationalist. It's not like it's a new thing for him. He has frequently not done so.

 

[Rob's House]

1 minute ago, Backintheday544 said:

 

Sure didn't denounce anything. He flippantly was like sure

 

He said stand down and stand by. Why you leave out the stand by? Proud Boys has ties to white supremacists don't know how that's debatable.

 

He also never said, i condemn white nationalist. It's not like it's a new thing for him. He has frequently not done so.

 

 

It's in my fukking post, dipsh!t.

 

And cite your source for your Proud Boys allegation. Got anything other than SPLC?

Edited September 30, 2020 by Rob's House

[The Frankish Reich]

5 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

So the fact he didn't start screaming it at that exact moment even though he has denounced them before means none of those other times ever counted right?

The post I was responding to said that Chris Wallace gave only Biden softball questions.

I pointed out that he lobbed this softball to Trump, and Trump took a mighty swing at it and ... whiffed.

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

[Big Blitz]

9 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

 

Except you conveniently cut out the answer to Wallace's first question, which was "sure."

 

Then when they followed up and he asked them which group they wanted him to tell to "stand down" they said Proud Boys (not a white supremacist or militia group, BTW) and he told them to stand down.

 

The big "gotcha" that you're clinging to is that he also said "stand by."

 

I guess you gotta take your talking points where you can get them.

 

 

I'm also sure Trump was ticked Biden didn't get this question about Antifa.....Wallace let him get away with saying they arent real.

 

Wallace let Biden tell the story of the Church.

 

Wallace didn't interrupt to ask "why was the Church on fire?"

 

He's a joke.  But we knew this.  

[Rob's House]

"Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans."

- Donald Trump, Aug. 14, 2017

 

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/trump-has-condemned-white-supremacists/

 

 

[The Frankish Reich]

 

2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

I'm also sure Trump was ticked Biden didn't get this question about Antifa.....Wallace let him get away with saying they arent real.

 

Wallace let Biden tell the story of the Church.

 

Wallace didn't interrupt to ask "why was the Church on fire?"

 

He's a joke.  But we knew this.  

Biden correctly volunteered that Trump's own FBI Director stated that Antifa is a movement, but not an organization in any normal sense of the word because it lacks any organizational structure.

Trump ... argued with his own Government, just like he argued with the CDC about vaccines.

This seems to be a problem with this Administration.

Edited September 30, 2020 by The Frankish Reich

[Big Blitz]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

 

Biden correctly volunteered that Trump's own FBI Director stated that Antifa is a movement, but not an organization in any normal sense

 

So what organization do the "white supremacists" belong to?  And if you think it's the Klan you may want to take a closer look at who those folks support.

 

And Wallace didn't say the KKK.  He said white supremacists.  That's an idea.  Not an organization.  

[Rob's House]

3 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

 

Biden correctly volunteered that Trump's own FBI Director stated that Antifa is a movement, but not an organization in any normal sense of the word because it lacks any organizational structure.

Trump ... argued with his own Government, just like he argued with the CDC about vaccines.

This seems to be a problem with this Administration.

 

"Rose City Antifa is a group. Antifa Seven Hills is a group. Antifa Sacramento is a group. Atlanta Antifascists is a group. Youth Liberation Front is a group. There are many, many antifa groups. And they are violent."

 

https://thepostmillennial.com/biden-antifa-is-an-idea-not-an-organization/

[The Frankish Reich]

1 minute ago, Rob's House said:

 

"Rose City Antifa is a group. Antifa Seven Hills is a group. Antifa Sacramento is a group. Atlanta Antifascists is a group. Youth Liberation Front is a group. There are many, many antifa groups. And they are violent."

 

https://thepostmillennial.com/biden-antifa-is-an-idea-not-an-organization/

Well, the FBI Director disagreed in testimony before Congress.

3 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

So what organization do the "white supremacists" belong to?  And if you think it's the Klan you may want to take a closer look at who those folks support.

 

And Wallace didn't say the KKK.  He said white supremacists.  That's an idea.  Not an organization.  

You are forgetting the question. It was "why was Biden not asked to disavow Antifa"

My response: he volunteered an answer, citing to the FBI Director.

 

[Rob's House]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Well, the FBI Director disagreed in testimony before Congress.

 

And empty suit Christopher Wray's word means what, exactly?

[The Frankish Reich]

Just now, Rob's House said:

 

And empty suit Christopher Wray's word means what, exactly?

He is Trump's FBI Director. He is in charge of investigating domestic terrorism. He was in charge of the DOJ Criminal Division, appointed by the Bush 43 administration. He was nominated by Trump.

Really ... this arguing with his own Administration is just ridiculous.

YOU can argue with the Trump Administration all you want; he can't, at least not without looking like a fool.

[Rob's House]

Just now, The Frankish Reich said:

He is Trump's FBI Director. He is in charge of investigating domestic terrorism. He was in charge of the DOJ Criminal Division, appointed by the Bush 43 administration. He was nominated by Trump.

Really ... this arguing with his own Administration is just ridiculous.

YOU can argue with the Trump Administration all you want; he can't, at least not without looking like a fool.

 

So in your estimation is one obligated to endorse every statement made by his appointee whether he agrees with it or not?