Bills scrimmage 8/27

[BillsSB2020KO]

On 8/29/2020 at 9:03 PM, Rocky Landing said:

Another peer-reviewed journal article specifically addressing Roland Fryer's study, outlining its flaws as outlined in two subsequent peer-reviewed studies--  since you're such a fan of "empirical data." https://scholar.harvard.edu/jfeldman/blog/roland-fryer-wrong-there-racial-bias-shootings-police 

 

It would seem, btw, that the economist professor Roland Fryer has been suspended by Harvard for violating its codes of professional conduct. https://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/inside-school-research/2019/07/education_economist_roland_fry_1.html?s_kwcid=AL!6416!3!266402628866!b!!g!!&cmp=cpc-goog-ew-dynamic+ads+recent+articles&ccid=dynamic+ads+recent+articles&ccag=recent+articles+dynamic&cckw=&cccv=dynamic+ad&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7eHT89rB6wIVLh6tBh2D1QtvEAAYASAAEgJBLPD_BwE

???

[BillsSB2020KO]

On 8/29/2020 at 8:43 PM, Rocky Landing said:

Or there's this peer-reviewed study: https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793

 By no means have you proven anything, do hold your horses bud with the ego. But I’m just glad you’re willing to read studies! This is a process we should all be involved in

???

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 8/28/2020 at 11:59 AM, Doc said:

That's what I've heard as well.  Not sure I'm a fan of this idea.  

 

In general, I'm not a fan of platooning on OL, but say more?

[Alphadawg7]

On 8/30/2020 at 6:54 AM, Doc said:

So if the Bills keep 6 WRs like they did last year, and we assume Diggs, Brown, Beasley, Davis and Roberts are locks, you're using the final spot on McK?

 

I think final spot in that scenario would be Duke personally.  Just on the fact he's been making those highlight catches in traffic again, and McK is more of a gimmick play use player than anything else.  And after flashing all these good plays in preseason last year, they went on to barely use McK during the season and that was with a shaky WR group outside of Brown and Cole.  

 

That being said, I would NOT be surprised at all to see them keep any of the 3 in contention for that final 6th spot in Duke, Hodgins, or McK as all have been getting good buzz in camp.  Just think Duke has more situational value than McK because the kind of plays they use McK on, they have multiple players that can fill that role now already on the roster.  Ultimately though, I am guessing that 6th spot will be heavily weighed on ST contributions, which probably favors McK, so who really knows.  

[Doc]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I think final spot in that scenario would be Duke personally.  Just on the fact he's been making those highlight catches in traffic again, and McK is more of a gimmick play use player than anything else.  And after flashing all these good plays in preseason last year, they went on to barely use McK during the season and that was with a shaky WR group outside of Brown and Cole.  

 

That being said, I would NOT be surprised at all to see them keep any of the 3 in contention for that final 6th spot in Duke, Hodgins, or McK as all have been getting good buzz in camp.  Just think Duke has more situational value than McK because the kind of plays they use McK on, they have multiple players that can fill that role now already on the roster.  Ultimately though, I am guessing that 6th spot will be heavily weighed on ST contributions, which probably favors McK, so who really knows.  

 

Yup.  That's what I put in the GunnerBill roster thread.  Plus McK was an UFA earlier and no one else signed him.  They could stash him on the PS.

[GunnerBill]

On 8/30/2020 at 2:54 PM, Doc said:

So if the Bills keep 6 WRs like they did last year, and we assume Diggs, Brown, Beasley, Davis and Roberts are locks, you're using the final spot on McK?

 

Personally I would but I can see the logic behind it being Hodgins. If it is Duke or Foster that is a mistake for me. 

[Doc]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

Personally I would but I can see the logic behind it being Hodgins. If it is Duke or Foster that is a mistake for me. 

 

I still think Hodgins has a great chance to make it to the PS.  I can't see another team signing him for their 53.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Yup.  That's what I put in the GunnerBill roster thread.  Plus McK was an UFA earlier and no one else signed him.  They could stash him on the PS.

 

Worth saying McKenzie did tell NFLN he had other similar offers but chose to come back to Buffalo. I am not saying there was a huge market for him, clearly there wasn't, but I am pretty sure if cut he would be picked up for someone's 53. 

[Rocky Landing]

49 minutes ago, BillsSB2020KO said:

 By no means have you proven anything, do hold your horses bud with the ego. But I’m just glad you’re willing to read studies! This is a process we should all be involved in

???

Your words based on one, clearly flawed study written by an economist-- "Studies definitively prove there is absolutely no disproportionate targeting of non whites by police. You are wrong. That is not opinion that is fact based on empirical data not anecdotal evidence and misplaced and manipulated emotion." 

I merely posted a couple peer-reviewed studies.

 

Regarding your comment on my ego, again your words-- "I’ve read actual studies, I don’t rely on media and honestly ignorant athletes like the ones in the NFL and other major sports leagues. They’re as conditioned as you."

 

Congratulations, you have identified yourself.

 

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Personally I would but I can see the logic behind it being Hodgins. If it is Duke or Foster that is a mistake for me. 

 

At this point, I would be shocked if it was Foster.  Given his lack of involvement last year, his injury issues in the past and in camp this year, I just don't see how he holds onto a spot at this stage.  I think they opened camp with him at #4 on the roster with the intention of trying to trade him personally.  I can see Beane getting a 5th out of someone for him based on his splashy rookie season.  

 

And you may not be someone who believes in Duke, but he has had a strong camp again and he contributed a lot more to this team last year in a lot less chances than Foster or McKenzie did combined.  

 

Hodgins is an exciting prospect, but I have a hard time seeing them keep two rookies in a COVID era season on the active roster.  But he has reportedly had a nice camp, so also would not shock me either.  

 

I think that 6th spot is wide open still...I don't see Foster keeping it, but I do think Duke, Hodgins, or McK have a legit case for them to keep a 6th WR.  But like I said before, ST contributions will also be a large factor on IF they keep 6, and if so, which one they keep.  

[Doc]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Worth saying McKenzie did tell NFLN he had other similar offers but chose to come back to Buffalo. I am not saying there was a huge market for him, clearly there wasn't, but I am pretty sure if cut he would be picked up for someone's 53. 

 

Did not see that.  That changes things a bit.  Gonna be tough to choose the guy for that last WR spot.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

At this point, I would be shocked if it was Foster.  Given his lack of involvement last year, his injury issues in the past and in camp this year, I just don't see how he holds onto a spot at this stage.  I think they opened camp with him at #4 on the roster with the intention of trying to trade him personally.  I can see Beane getting a 5th out of someone for him based on his splashy rookie season.  

 

And you may not be someone who believes in Duke, but he has had a strong camp again and he contributed a lot more to this team last year in a lot less chances than Foster or McKenzie did combined.  

 

Hodgins is an exciting prospect, but I have a hard time seeing them keep two rookies in a COVID era season on the active roster.  But he has reportedly had a nice camp, so also would not shock me either.  

 

I think that 6th spot is wide open still...I don't see Foster keeping it, but I do think Duke, Hodgins, or McK have a legit case for them to keep a 6th WR.  But like I said before, ST contributions will also be a large factor on IF they keep 6, and if so, which one they keep.  

 

By what metric did Williams add more than McKenzie? 

 

Duke - 16 receptions (55%), 215 yards, 1 touchdown, 11 first downs.

 

McKenzie - 31 receptions (70%), 277 yards, 1 touchdown, 13 first downs PLUS 49 yards and 4 first downs rushing.

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

By what metric did Williams add more than McKenzie? 

 

Duke - 16 receptions (55%), 215 yards, 1 touchdown, 11 first downs.

 

McKenzie - 31 receptions (70%), 277 yards, 1 touchdown, 13 first downs PLUS 49 yards and 4 first downs rushing.

 

Was talking on a week to week basis, not season totals.  Duke had far less opportunities as he didnt get involved until late.  But when he did, he had a bigger impact than those other guys did.  And sorry, the 70% catch rate is silly.  McKenzies mostly saw short screen type passes while Duke was more downfield and contested ball situations.  

Edited August 31, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Was talking on a week to week basis, not season totals.  Duke had far less opportunities as he didnt get involved until late.  But when he did, he had a bigger impact than those other guys did.

 

Duke did it in fewer snaps, and had more yards per catch.  That said, McKenzie is your jet sweep guy--you prefer to let Diggs and Brown run routes, as opposed to waste time on the sweep.  Duke is a big body, but Davis is too. Duke was really disappointing in some key opportunities.  Unreliability is worse than underperformance.  I'd bet the coaches will feel the same come cut down. 

[SWATeam]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Was talking on a week to week basis, not season totals.  Duke had far less opportunities as he didnt get involved until late.  But when he did, he had a bigger impact than those other guys did.  And sorry, the 70% catch rate is silly.  McKenzies mostly saw short screen type passes while Duke was more downfield and contested ball situations.  

He better be good in contested ball situations because he can't get open.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Was talking on a week to week basis, not season totals.  Duke had far less opportunities as he didnt get involved until late.  But when he did, he had a bigger impact than those other guys did.

 

By what metric? I don't know what your basis for that statement is? His best game was his first one when he caught 4 of 4 and had the gamewinner at Tenn. After that he caught fewer than half his targets and didn't score. And more than that he really struggles to separate. That is what led to him being sat down for most of the year even after than Tenn game. 

 

To be a believer in Duke at the moment as a potential difference maker is to say "I ignore the evidence I just like him." 

 

Can he play in this league? Yes. Should he probably have won a job off the bat on the 53 last year? Yes. Does he have a role on this team in 2020? Not for me and he didn't do enough with his opportunity last year to show otherwise.

Edited August 31, 2020 by GunnerBill

[Alphadawg7]

11 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Duke did it in fewer snaps, and had more yards per catch.  That said, McKenzie is your jet sweep guy--you prefer to let Diggs and Brown run routes, as opposed to waste time on the sweep.  Duke is a big body, but Davis is too. Duke was really disappointing in some key opportunities.  Unreliability is worse than underperformance.  I'd bet the coaches will feel the same come cut down. 

 

I think its a bit unfair to harshly judge Duke on some of the low percentage catches he didn't make.  Its not like he is Randy Moss out there or D Hop.  But he made some key catches for us, including in the playoff game even though the only thing people want to talk about is the end of the half TD he couldn't haul in that was a very difficult catch.  

 

I get it, thats supposed to be his specialty, but people act like every difficult contested catch should be automatic then, which is unreasonable.  At the end of the day though, I think he has more situational value than McK.  The guy with the most upside is by far Hodgins, but him being an UDFA rookie with another rookie already locked in with Davis, I think hurts his chances a lot to make the final roster initially.  Although, I would not at all be surprised to see them keep Hodgins or bring him up sometime during the season from the PS if that is where he ends up.

 

Honestly though, at the end of the day, this 6th WR will see very little playing time anyway as I think Davis is going get the lions share of snaps outside the top 3 guys.  

[SWATeam]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I think its a bit unfair to harshly judge Duke on some of the low percentage catches he didn't make.  Its not like he is Randy Moss out there or D Hop.  But he made some key catches for us, including in the playoff game even though the only thing people want to talk about is the end of the half TD he couldn't haul in that was a very difficult catch.  

 

I get it, thats supposed to be his specialty, but people act like every difficult contested catch should be automatic then, which is unreasonable.  At the end of the day though, I think he has more situational value than McK.  The guy with the most upside is by far Hodgins, but him being an UDFA rookie with another rookie already locked in with Davis, I think hurts his chances a lot to make the final roster initially.  Although, I would not at all be surprised to see them keep Hodgins or bring him up sometime during the season from the PS if that is where he ends up.

 

Honestly though, at the end of the day, this 6th WR will see very little playing time anyway as I think Davis is going get the lions share of snaps outside the top 3 guys.  

Which is actually an argument for Mckenzie as he will have a role beyond traditional WR play.

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

Which is actually an argument for Mckenzie as he will have a role beyond traditional WR play.

 

Which is why I said all 3 have a case.  I am not by anyway saying Duke has it locked up or is only choice.  Just making a case that all 3 guys vying for a 6th spot, if they even keep 6 (which I think they will), have a case.  

[SWATeam]

29 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Which is why I said all 3 have a case.  I am not by anyway saying Duke has it locked up or is only choice.  Just making a case that all 3 guys vying for a 6th spot, if they even keep 6 (which I think they will), have a case.  

I think they keep 7 and Duke is not one of them.

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, SWATeam said:

I think they keep 7 and Duke is not one of them.

 

In a normal year, I could see it being a possibility.  But not this year, I just highly doubt they keep 7.  Roberts has shown ability in his few chances as a WR, so he's not just a ST player.  Yes he's a deep bench guy, but no one counts him as if he could ever take any snaps at WR.  

 

With COVID and a deep roster, I think they will need to spread the roster spots around and will not have the luxury of keeping 7 WR's to insure they have proper depth at other spots.  

 

But hey, not impossible they keep 7 obviously, I just find it highly unlikely given it would be mean thats another player somewhere else they can't keep and I think balance on the roster depth charts will be a high priority for them given COVID can impact them at any given moment.