Is Big Nickel “Need” overblown?

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Another guy we've talked to is Austin Hall of Memphis. Terrific athlete, 6 foot 220 pounds.  He likely will be a 7th or UDFA.

[purple haze]

3 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

It seems to me that they use Edumonds and Milano to cover RB's and TE's and it works. I think "Big Nickel" is a niche that can be filled by quality coverage LB's. Even in that niche I think the Bills have players that can fill it. 

The big nickel is the coverage LB or a LB who can drop in coverage and allow Edmunds and Milano to blitz.  He's also an in the box safety who can blitz himself.  He's also a slot Defender.  See Shaq Thompson in Carolina who was a safety in college (he's a starter and a big nickel in Buff would probably be too).  He's a Swiss Army knife.  Basically, a faster Milano.  Sign me up for that if you can find it.

[billsfan89]

26 minutes ago, purple haze said:

The big nickel is the coverage LB or a LB who can drop in coverage and allow Edmunds and Milano to blitz.  He's also an in the box safety who can blitz himself.  He's also a slot Defender.  See Shaq Thompson in Carolina who was a safety in college (he's a starter and a big nickel in Buff would probably be too).  He's a Swiss Army knife.  Basically, a faster Milano.  Sign me up for that if you can find it.

 

Question about this position because if you are in Nickel does the "Big Nickel" take the place of a LB or the slot corner? 

[ComradeKayAdams]

4 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Question about this position because if you are in Nickel does the "Big Nickel" take the place of a LB or the slot corner? 

 

Normally I believe the Sam LB if you are in your base 4-3 and the slot CB if you are in your regular nickel.

[OldTimer1960]

“Big nickel” importance aside, I think Dugger the 24 y.o. who dominated 20 y.o. in D2 is too risky and raw for 2nd round - at least for my taste.  

 

Is he a very good athlete?  Yes.

 

Is he ready to play in NFL?   Probably not on defense.

 

Are you interested in a 24 year old special teams player with your 2nd round pick?
 

 

 

 

[billsfan89]

8 minutes ago, RealKayAdams said:

 

Normally I believe the Sam LB if you are in your base 4-3 and the slot CB if you are in your regular nickel.

 

Then it just seems like a coverage LB position. I don't get why it has to be so heavily specialized. 

[ny33]

3 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

Good post. One of those 2 could elevate this defense even more, especially considering we don't have that 3rd caliber LB to go with Edmunds and Milano. Klein is serviceable but in a Big Nickel Dugger or Chinn would be a nasty addition.

Klein isn’t close to good enough to see meaningful snaps, in my opinion, but agree otherwise. 

[jrober38]

The weakest position on our defense is our nickel back.

 

It's certainly a need. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

3 minutes ago, ny33 said:

Klein isn’t close to good enough to see meaningful snaps, in my opinion, but agree otherwise. 

He's great depth though!! 

[billsfan89]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

The weakest position on our defense is our nickel back.

 

It's certainly a need. 

 

T.Johnson is a solid Nickel when healthy, in fact I think he is highly underrated. 

[purple haze]

23 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Question about this position because if you are in Nickel does the "Big Nickel" take the place of a LB or the slot corner? 

Shaq Thompson is the Carolina version and he is a converted college safety who starts at a LB position.  What do you know, the Bills have an open LB spot.   I believe the guy would be a LB in name only though.  They are really a chess piece.  

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

The weakest position on our defense is our nickel back.

 

It's certainly a need. 

Nickel back and Big nickel are technically 2 different roles/positions. Taron Johnson is the man!

[jrober38]

Just now, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Nickel back and Big nickel are technically 2 different roles/positions. Taron Johnson is the man!

 

Not if you get the right guy. 

[purple haze]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

The weakest position on our defense is our nickel back.

 

It's certainly a need. 

Disagree.  Taron Johnson is good, but unfortunately, gets hurt and misses time.  They could look to get competition for his spot, but it wouldn't be based on his talent.  It would be based on finding equal talent who can also stay available.

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, purple haze said:

Disagree.  Taron Johnson is good, but unfortunately, gets hurt and misses time.  They could look to get competition for his spot, but it wouldn't be based on his talent.  It would be based on finding equal talent who can also stay available.

 

OK.

 

If it's not our biggest need, what is?

[billsfan89]

1 minute ago, purple haze said:

Shaq Thompson is the Carolina version and he is a converted college safety who starts at a LB position.  What do you know, the Bills have an open LB spot.   I believe the guy would be a LB in name only though.  They are really a chess piece.  

 

Sorry for all these questions but this seems to be a heavily specialized and nuanced position. But in my mind Edumonds and Milano are the starting LB's in the Nickel with Klein the third LB in the 4-3 package. So I don't see an open LB spot. I also think that Milano and Edumonds are both fast young LB's who cover well. I just don't see where the fit is on the Bills seeing as they have two good LB's who can cover. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

4 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Sorry for all these questions but this seems to be a heavily specialized and nuanced position. But in my mind Edumonds and Milano are the starting LB's in the Nickel with Klein the third LB in the 4-3 package. So I don't see an open LB spot. I also think that Milano and Edumonds are both fast young LB's who cover well. I just don't see where the fit is on the Bills seeing as they have two good LB's who can cover. 

This player would basically be a starting LB and is faster/quicker that 49/58.

 

It could allow us to be in our "base" defense and still cover 3 wide. Or put this player on a TE.

Edited April 24, 2020 by TheyCallMeAndy

[jrober38]

5 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Sorry for all these questions but this seems to be a heavily specialized and nuanced position. But in my mind Edumonds and Milano are the starting LB's in the Nickel with Klein the third LB in the 4-3 package. So I don't see an open LB spot. I also think that Milano and Edumonds are both fast young LB's who cover well. I just don't see where the fit is on the Bills seeing as they have two good LB's who can cover. 

 

Most NFL teams are in their nickel package much more than their base defense these days. 

 

Lorenzo Alexander was our SLB last year and he didn't play much. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by jrober38

[billsfan89]

Just now, TheyCallMeAndy said:

This player would basically be a starting LB and is faster/quicker that 49/58

 

So who gets displaced in the Nickel? Milano or Edumonds? That would easily push Klein to the bench and given that they put in a decent chunk of change into him I think they probably want him to have some significant role no the defense. 

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

Most NFL teams are in their nickel package much more than their base defense these days. 

 

Lorenzo Alexander was our SLB last year and he didn't play much. 

 

I get that, Milano and Edumonds are the starting LB's in the Nickel and both work well in coverage. So I don't see exactly what this need is? 

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, billsfan89 said:

 

So who gets displaced in the Nickel? Milano or Edumonds? That would easily push Klein to the bench and given that they put in a decent chunk of change into him I think they probably want him to have some significant role no the defense. 

 

I get that, Milano and Edumonds are the starting LB's in the Nickel and both work well in coverage. So I don't see exactly what this need is? 

 

A big slot guy who can defend the pass and stop the run.

 

That's where the NFL is going. You need a chess piece you can move around in the box or the slot and not expose yourself to either the run or the pass. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 minute ago, billsfan89 said:

 

So who gets displaced in the Nickel? Milano or Edumonds? That would easily push Klein to the bench and given that they put in a decent chunk of change into him I think they probably want him to have some significant role no the defense. 

That's were the fun starts. With 4.45 speed and coverage skills of a former DB, you could use your base defense to create confusion. Or they mix and match when Taron enters the game.

[billsfan89]

Just now, TheyCallMeAndy said:

That's were the fun starts. With 4.45 speed and coverage skills of a former DB, you could use your base defense to create confusion. Or they mix and match when Taron enters the game.

 

I feel like a "Big Nickel" would have to play the slot corner position in order to justify sinking a second round pick into the position. Because I don't see what a Big Nickel player could do that is that much better than Milano and Edumonds both guys who fly across the field. 

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, MJS said:

Every single need for this team is overblown. We're pretty good post free agency and trades. Anything else is just cake.

 

Obviously it would be nice to upgrade a few positions, but not necessary. There's not a single position that is preventing this team from being a contender unless Josh Allen doesn't continue to progress.

 

And unless our geriatric defensive ends have broken down by week 6. The Bills don't have any needs they have to "reach" for. But the biggest need on this team is at EDGE.

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And unless our geriatric defensive ends have broken down by week 6. The Bills don't have any needs they have to "reach" for. But the biggest need on this team is at EDGE.

 

I'd agree. 

 

Our ends are old and we need to find someone with talent who can ascend into a starting role within the next 24 months.

 

Other than that, we're pretty much set. 

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

A big slot guy who can defend the pass and stop the run.

 

That's where the NFL is going. You need a chess piece you can move around in the box or the slot and not expose yourself to either the run or the pass. 

 

It's true but there were few defences in the NFL last season that were so able to adapt vs run and pass without tipping their hand with personnel groupings as the Buffalo Bills.

[jrober38]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

It's true but there were few defences in the NFL last season that were so able to adapt vs run and pass without tipping their hand with personnel groupings as the Buffalo Bills.

 

True.

 

The Bills defense is truly elite. The only thing they're really lacking is an elite edge rusher who can consistently post 10+ sacks. 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It's true but there were few defences in the NFL last season that were so able to adapt vs run and pass without tipping their hand with personnel groupings as the Buffalo Bills.

Yes that is where (unless Klein is better than I think he is) we are going to miss Alexander more than we realize

[GunnerBill]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Yes that is where (unless Klein is better than I think he is) we are going to miss Alexander more than we realize

 

Yea Zo is guy we have had to replace three times. Klein to play his linebacker role in base, Jefferson to play on the line in the sub packages and the fella we signed from the Steelers to play teams. It is not exaggeration to say that.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea Zo is guy we have had to replace three times. Klein to play his linebacker role in base, Jefferson to play on the line in the sub packages and the fella we signed from the Steelers to play teams. It is not exaggeration to say that.

H played everything, 3tech/edge/SAM etc...it was honestly a little crazy rewatching how they used him 

 

And still effective for his age. He will be missed for sure

[purple haze]

35 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Sorry for all these questions but this seems to be a heavily specialized and nuanced position. But in my mind Edumonds and Milano are the starting LB's in the Nickel with Klein the third LB in the 4-3 package. So I don't see an open LB spot. I also think that Milano and Edumonds are both fast young LB's who cover well. I just don't see where the fit is on the Bills seeing as they have two good LB's who can cover. 

Klein doesn't have to be a starter.  If you had a big nickel that would free up Edmunds and Milano to get after the QB more often too.

36 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

OK.

 

If it's not our biggest need, what is?

A big nickel, bc that is something that McD seems to be looking for.  But that guy doesn't necessarily take the place of Johnson.  He would probably be listed as a LB.  Johnson would still be on the field.  

Edited April 24, 2020 by purple haze

[billsfan89]

11 minutes ago, purple haze said:

Klein doesn't have to be a starter.  If you had a big nickel that would free up Edmunds and Milano to get after the QB more often too.

 

Klein is being paid like a starter, I just don't see what good replacing Edumonds or Milano in the Nickel does unless you draft a player who can play in the slot corner spot regularly 

Edited April 24, 2020 by billsfan89

[Don Otreply]

It’s like asking what makes for a good sailboat to sail down the east coast to the Bahamas and back, the answer depends on who you ask.

The exception is when sports pundits make it their pet topic, then it’s definitely over blown, ?

 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

Didn't we draft a linebacker last year in the later rounds but was raw so they put him in injured reserve? Sounds like they already might have their man.