Defensive Backs in Top 10 of Round 1

[Bill from NYC]

5 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

At what pick is it acceptable to select a DB? 

Doesn't it depend on the team. I am guessing not at #3 when your team is filled with holes and there are great players out there. What do you think?

 

Btw, is there any situation where it is too early or ill advised to draft a DB. Should teams trade up to #1 to take them?

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, mannc said:

Look, there really isn't any debate that the Bills did not score enough points last season.  The defense played about as well as you can expect a defense to play in this modern era, and it still wasn't good enough to beat good teams.  Since they aren't about to replace the QB, the only solution is to give that QB better weapons, and one new WR isn't nearly enough.

 

Don't disagree with any of that. 

[Bill from NYC]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes because they have a playmaker at QB, an elite OT and a future hall of famer at guard. The tight ends are nice players. But they aren't elite weapons.

 

That wasn't quite the argument. I would have taken Wirfs myself as the Giants but if not him then Thomas because the Giants needed a left tackle. The Lions do not need a left tackle was my point. They already have a really good one. An argument that someone who was a top end right tackle could go in there is one I have more sympathy with. 

Thomas was shown on film last night playing RT and LT GB.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Bill from NYC

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Bill from NYC said:

Thomas was shown of film last night playing RT and LT GB.

 

Okay so you'd have taken Thomas an played him right tackle? Fair enough.

 

I still think valuing right tackle above #1 corner isn't a great strategy in my mind. The Lions have drafted loads of oline and dline in the first round for the last decade. It hasn't helped. 

 

It is about talent evaluation first and foremost.

[Bill from NYC]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Okay so you'd have taken Thomas an played him right tackle? Fair enough.

 

I still think valuing right tackle above #1 corner isn't a great strategy in my mind. The Lions have drafted loads of oline and dline in the first round for the last decade. It hasn't helped. 

 

It is about talent evaluation first and foremost.

Not necessarily. Open competition is OK too.

[Bill from NYC]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I still think valuing right tackle above #1 corner isn't a great strategy in my mind. The Lions have drafted loads of oline and dline in the first round for the last decade. It hasn't helped. 

 

It is about talent evaluation first and foremost.

Yeah and they didn't do so well at it. They also seemed to emphasize DT over pass rushers.

 

And of course, teams have to be able to evaluate players. We should know after decades of incompetence.

[Jauronimo]

19 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Doesn't it depend on the team. I am guessing not at #3 when your team is filled with holes and there are great players out there. What do you think?

 

Btw, is there any situation where it is too early or ill advised to draft a DB. Should teams trade up to #1 to take them?

If CB is a hole and the BPA is a CB at #3, I don't get the criticism. 

 

Your sense of betrayal from the selections of Whitner, Leodis, Spiller, Lynch, and McGahee without further facts or discussion isn't a very compelling argument.  

 

Try to contain your emotions in your response.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Yeah and they didn't do so well at it. They also seemed to emphasize DT over pass rushers.

 

And of course, teams have to be able to evaluate players. We should know after decades of incompetence.

 

They were pass rushing DTs though for the main. They weren't drafting a load of 1 techs. 

 

You draft linemen as many times as you like. Ultimately it comes down to drafting well. And other than Decker, Ragnow and Suh they haven't for the most part. Okudah will at least be really good. 

 

I do take your point though that Okudah on his own does not turn that team around next year. Just not sure Thomas does either because tackle hasn't been their issue. 

[Bill from NYC]

5 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

If CB is a hole and the BPA is a CB at #3, I don't get the criticism. 

 

Your sense of betrayal from the selections of Whitner, Leodis, Spiller, Lynch, and McGahee without further facts or discussion isn't a very compelling argument.  

 

Try to contain your emotions in your response.

Thanks for the football dialogue but please spare me your emotional guidance and worry about improving your own rather boring drivel.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Bill from NYC

[Jauronimo]

18 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Thanks for the football dialogue but please spare me your emotional guidance and worry about improving your own rather boring drivel.

Better or worse?  Your feedback is appreciated.

 

[jrober38]

29 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

If CB is a hole and the BPA is a CB at #3, I don't get the criticism. 

 

Your sense of betrayal from the selections of Whitner, Leodis, Spiller, Lynch, and McGahee without further facts or discussion isn't a very compelling argument.  

 

Try to contain your emotions in your response.

 

I think the argument is that it should be impossible for a CB to be the best player available at #3. 

 

Like, when has a top 5 pick CB ever changed the fortunes of a franchise over the past 20 years?

 

I can't think of a single player. 

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

I think the argument is that it should be impossible for a CB to be the best player available at #3. 

 

Like, when has a top 5 pick CB ever changed the fortunes of a franchise over the past 20 years?

 

I can't think of a single player. 

If that's the test then I suppose you shouldn't draft anything besides QB in the first 5 picks (perhaps even first round).  Name one player that isn't a QB, selected in the first 5 picks that changed the fortunes of a franchise.  

[mannc]

11 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I think the argument is that it should be impossible for a CB to be the best player available at #3. 

 

Like, when has a top 5 pick CB ever changed the fortunes of a franchise over the past 20 years?

 

I can't think of a single player. 

Darrell Revis, but he was not taken in the top 5.

[Jauronimo]

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

Darrell Revis, but he was not taken in the top 5.

Revis made that Jets defense.  Not having to worry about one half of the football field makes your job a lot easier.

 

I think it was @thebandit27 who discussed  a draft strategy that makes much sense to me in using your early picks on positions that you pretty much can't address in free agency or trade with any reliability.  Those are your money positions.  QB, EDGE, Left Tackle, #1 WR, shutdown CB.

 

Guards, Centers, D Tackles, Linebackers, Running backs, safeties, tight ends, slot WRs need not apply.

[thebandit27]

10 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Revis made that Jets defense.  Not having to worry about one half of the football field makes your job a lot easier.

 

I think it was @thebandit27 who discussed  a draft strategy that makes much sense to me in using your early picks on positions that you pretty much can't address in free agency or trade with any reliability.  Those are your money positions.  QB, EDGE, Left Tackle, #1 WR, shutdown CB.

 

Guards, Centers, D Tackles, Linebackers, Running backs, safeties, tight ends, slot WRs need not apply.

Yeah that’s more or less how I feel.

 

I would append that to say “pass rusher” instead of EDGE, because I think an Ed Oliver type qualifies since he can have such a huge impact on the passing game.

And for the most part, teams followed suit yesterday. Breakdown of 1sts from last night:

 

4 QBs

1 RB

0 TE

6 WRs

1 IOL

5 OTs

2 EDGE rushers

2 IDLs (and both are good pass rushers)

3 LBs

6 corners

0 safeties 

 

So 5 out of 32 picks are non-premium, and one of those is Simmons, who may end up an elite player. The only exceptions I would say make sense is if you’re a team like NO or KC and believe you’re one player away, so you go for a Ruiz or CEH in round 1. Understandable, but unwise long-term IMO.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

47 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Better or worse?  Your feedback is appreciated.

 

 

At this point, it's ancient tradition.

 

[Coach Tuesday]

3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Yeah that’s more or less how I feel.

 

I would append that to say “pass rusher” instead of EDGE, because I think an Ed Oliver type qualifies since he can have such a huge impact on the passing game.

And for the most part, teams followed suit yesterday. Breakdown of 1sts from last night:

 

4 QBs

1 RB

0 TE

6 WRs

1 IOL

5 OTs

2 EDGE rushers

2 IDLs (and both are good pass rushers)

3 LBs

6 corners

0 safeties 

 

So 5 out of 32 picks are non-premium, and one of those is Simmons, who may end up an elite player. The only exceptions I would say make sense is if you’re a team like NO or KC and believe you’re one player away, so you go for a Ruiz or CEH in round 1. Understandable, but unwise long-term IMO.

 

That's why Derrick Brown would've been the better pick IMO.  Keep Slay if you need a corner - you've got a good one - and draft Brown who can blow up a passing game and has an A+ football character.

[Bill from NYC]

31 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

If that's the test then I suppose you shouldn't draft anything besides QB in the first 5 picks (perhaps even first round).  Name one player that isn't a QB, selected in the first 5 picks that changed the fortunes of a franchise.  

Von Miller

Orlando Pace

Larry Fitzgerald

Bruce Smith

Earl Campbell

Jonathan Ogden

 

These guys were pretty important to their teams to name a few.

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I was not surprised to see the Jaguars and the Lions draft Top 10 first round DBs. Why not? Because one can make a case that these particular teams are long time second rate organizations. Their drafts are every bit as bad as ours in the "bad old days" or so it would seem.

The Lions were just so bad that they picked at #3. Could one even imagine how many problems they had to pick so early? They have a QB with a monster arm and there were receivers galore. They probably could have traded down and selected Lamb, Ruggs or Jeudy AND acquired extra picks but no; they really had to take that corner at #3. There were very good blockers available, and they could have even taken a QB to eventually replace Stafford. Incredible.

 

The Jags are another team that historically drafts poorly. They have issues galore. Their method of fixing said issues? A DB at #9. While unquestionably stupid, it was not quite on the same level of idiocy displayed by the ever horrible Lions, who would even appear to be tanking for Trevor.

 

I am on record as being skeptical of the trade for Diggs, but it looks wonderful compared to the above decisions.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

Diggs trade was proven to be an excellent decision.  All 3 of the top WRs were gone by pick 17, the compensation we paid to get Diggs was equal to moving up to 18.  That means we would have had to have paid more to get one of the top 3 WRs, which are the best guys with a chance to be as good as Diggs and could still underperform to expectations or even just flat out bust.  

 

More importantly, we threw in extra 5th and 6th round picks, plus next years 4th (equivalent to a 5th this year) to get Diggs.  To move around in the first round, we would have had to include less picks, but more valuable picks like our 2nd and maybe even also our 3rd or 4th this year too. 

 

End result, we landed a top tier WR in Diggs for one first, and 3 day 3 or later picks (2 of which were extra from Beane fleecing teams trading them bad players last year who were gonna get cut anyway).  And Diggs is the #1 WR at contested catches, the leading deep threat, an elite route runner, and a fiery competitor who is just 26 on a team friendly contract for 4 years that will step in and for sure make an immediate impact to this offense and Allens development.  

 

Now on to your criticisms...fully agree.  No chance in hell I am taking a CB with the 3rd pick in the draft.  Lions get rid of slay, to just use the 3rd pick to replace him?  Jags get rid of Ramsey and likely Yannick to just use both first round picks to replace them?  Both were bad teams with proven talent at those positions, so now they get rid of the talent and replace with rookies that will more than likely not be as good as the guys they are replacing?  Feels like spinning your wheels in a pool of mud.  

 

Funniest part is neither the Lions or Jags were good football teams with pro bowl level players at those positions.  So their plan is to replace those top tier players with rookies?  How about fixing the trenches first...getting your QB some help in protection or weapons...etc etc.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Diggs trade was proven to be an excellent decision.  All 3 of the top WRs were gone by pick 17, the compensation we paid to get Diggs was equal to moving up to 18.  That means we would have had to have paid more to get one of the top 3 WRs, which are the best guys with a chance to be as good as Diggs and could still underperform to expectations or even just flat out bust.  

 

More importantly, we threw in extra 5th and 6th round picks, plus next years 4th (equivalent to a 5th this year) to get Diggs.  To move around in the first round, we would have had to include less picks, but more valuable picks like our 2nd and maybe even also our 3rd or 4th this year too. 

 

End result, we landed a top tier WR in Diggs for one first, and 3 day 3 or later picks (2 of which were extra from Beane fleecing teams trading them bad players last year who were gonna get cut anyway).  And Diggs is the #1 WR at contested catches, the leading deep threat, an elite route runner, and a fiery competitor who is just 26 on a team friendly contract for 4 years that will step in and for sure make an immediate impact to this offense and Allens development.  

 

 

 

Bingo!

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Joe in Winslow

[Jauronimo]

21 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Von Miller

Orlando Pace

Larry Fitzgerald

Bruce Smith

Earl Campbell

Jonathan Ogden

 

These guys were pretty important to their teams to name a few.

Yes, they were very important and each one a great pick (although in the modern game no running back seems to be that valuable).  I think jrober's argument about changing the fortunes of a franchise is a poor metric since in the modern game of football only a QB can have that kind of impact.  I think we can all agree that limiting your selection on draft day to only QBs in the top 5 is silly.

 

- Von Miller is the first player I thought of due to his dominance in the Super Bowl and MVP award.  But the Bronco's success was largely due to Peyton Manning until their super bowl year when the defense led by Von and two strong CBs carried Manning's corpse to a title.  The Broncos aren't even a playoff team now.

- Orlando Pace is a great player but that team was all about Warner, Martz, Faulk, Bruce, and Holt putting up crazy points.

- Fitz is the man but without Warner or Palmer the Cards are bottom feeders and have been for much of his sterling career.

- Bruce played with how many other hall of famers on both sides of the ball.  Its hard to credit any one player on the amazing team Polian assembled.

- Earl is so far before my time I can't comment other than the game has changed and examples like OJ and Jim Brown do not have the same relevance in a pass happy league.

- No one will ever forget how Jonathan Ogden kept Trent Dilfer clean while the Raven's juggernaut offense moved into field goal position.  Ed Reed, Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs, your man Haloti Ngata, CJ Mosely were the heart of all those Raven's teams. 

[FireChans]

8 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Yes, they were very important and each one a great pick (although in the modern game no running back seems to be that valuable).  I think jrober's argument about changing the fortunes of a franchise is a poor metric since in the modern game of football only a QB can have that kind of impact.  I think we can all agree that limiting your selection on draft day to only QBs in the top 5 is silly.

 

- Von Miller is the first player I thought of due to his dominance in the Super Bowl and MVP award.  But the Bronco's success was largely due to Peyton Manning until their super bowl year when the defense led by Von and two strong CBs carried Manning's corpse to a title.  The Broncos aren't even a playoff team now.

- Orlando Pace is a great player but that team was all about Warner, Martz, Faulk, Bruce, and Holt putting up crazy points.

- Fitz is the man but without Warner or Palmer the Cards are bottom feeders and have been for much of his sterling career.

- Bruce played with how many other hall of famers on both sides of the ball.  Its hard to credit any one player on the amazing team Polian assembled.

- Earl is so far before my time I can't comment other than the game has changed and examples like OJ and Jim Brown do not have the same relevance in a pass happy league.

- No one will ever forget how Jonathan Ogden kept Trent Dilfer clean while the Raven's juggernaut offense moved into field goal position.  Ed Reed, Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs, your man Haloti Ngata, CJ Mosely were the heart of all those Raven's teams. 

Lol

[Bill from NYC]

Did you see the Super Bowl that the Rams won? Pace pretty much took over the very close game. Warner was good but imo it would be a huge mistake to think that not having to worry about his blind side did not have a drastic positive effect on his play.

I do however think that I get why you are trying to say. I don't think that any one person was totally responsible for the success of a franchise. This would not be possible. Were the players that I mentioned instrumental in making their teams much better? Absolutely.

[GunnerBill]

30 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Funniest part is neither the Lions or Jags were good football teams with pro bowl level players at those positions.  So their plan is to replace those top tier players with rookies?  How about fixing the trenches first...getting your QB some help in protection or weapons...etc etc.  

 

So on the Jags I think both lines are an issue. On the Lions their biggest issues have been the secondary (despite Slay the other three have been disaster zones) and obviously last year losing their Quarterback and their backup.

[Chandler#81]

Read every post and was surprised no one has yet mentioned specifically that the AFCW went big on CB very early, as the Chiefs high potent offense is clearly atop that Division. A trio of great WRs and skilled pass catching TE’s & RB’s. Carrying this premise out further, they all play the AFCE this season where at least the prohibitive favorite boasts much of the same (Us).

 

in order to be the best, you gotta Beat the best.

 

Shaping up as a Helluva season!

[CookieG]

27 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Revis made that Jets defense.  Not having to worry about one half of the football field makes your job a lot easier.

 

I think it was @thebandit27 who discussed  a draft strategy that makes much sense to me in using your early picks on positions that you pretty much can't address in free agency or trade with any reliability.  Those are your money positions.  QB, EDGE, Left Tackle, #1 WR, shutdown CB.

 

Guards, Centers, D Tackles, Linebackers, Running backs, safeties, tight ends, slot WRs need not apply.

Yeah well, ..there's Revis..and um...Deion Sanders and...um...maybe Patrick Peterson, but then...how good have the Cards been since he's been drafted?  (3 winning season out of 8).

 

I don't know if you make it a rule that a DB is the cornerstone of your franchise when the two examples are from 20 and 30 years ago and are HOF'ers.

 

Cleveland has done it a number of times...Joe Haden, Denzell Ward, Justin Gilbert and people are still waiting for them to turn it around.  And hell, both Haden and Ward are good.  But neither transformed the Browns.

 

The Jets spent a better part of the Rex Ryan era using their top pick on a DB, and that was when they had Revis.  After initial success, they've been a bad, bad franchise.

 

And of course..there's the droughty Bills.

 

Not to mention that there is a pretty high bust factor.

 

Dee Millner

Justin Gilbert

Mo Claiborne

Eli Apple is going to be on his 3rd team since 2016, provided someone picks him up.

 

Those are guys taken in the top 10 in just the past 8 years. I think there were only 8 taken in the top 10 during that time.

 

Its about a 50% bust ratio.

 

Its an important position..but wayyyyy overrated as the place to build a franchise

 

 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, CookieG said:

Yeah well, ..there's Revis..and um...Deion Sanders and...um...maybe Patrick Peterson, but then...how good have the Cards been since he's been drafted?  (3 winning season out of 8).

 

I don't know if you make it a rule that a DB is the cornerstone of your franchise when the two examples are from 20 and 30 years ago and are HOF'ers.

 

Cleveland has done it a number of times...Joe Haden, Denzell Ward, Justin Gilbert and people are still waiting for them to turn it around.  And hell, both Haden and Ward are good.  But neither transformed the Browns.

 

The Jets spent a better part of the Rex Ryan era using their top pick on a DB, and that was when they had Revis.  After initial success, they've been a bad, bad franchise.

 

And of course..there's the droughty Bills.

 

Not to mention that there is a pretty high bust factor.

 

Dee Millner

Justin Gilbert

Mo Claiborne

Eli Apple is going to be on his 3rd team since 2016, provided someone picks him up.

 

Those are guys taken in the top 10 in just the past 8 years. I think there were only 8 taken in the top 10 during that time.

 

Its about a 50% bust ratio.

 

Its an important position..but wayyyyy overrated as the place to build a franchise

 

 

You can play this game with every position. The Redskins just picked Young, do you think they win the Super Bowl in the next 3 years?

[Jauronimo]

3 minutes ago, CookieG said:

Yeah well, ..there's Revis..and um...Deion Sanders and...um...maybe Patrick Peterson, but then...how good have the Cards been since he's been drafted?  (3 winning season out of 8).

 

I don't know if you make it a rule that a DB is the cornerstone of your franchise when the two examples are from 20 and 30 years ago and are HOF'ers.

 

Cleveland has done it a number of times...Joe Haden, Denzell Ward, Justin Gilbert and people are still waiting for them to turn it around.  And hell, both Haden and Ward are good.  But neither transformed the Browns.

 

The Jets spent a better part of the Rex Ryan era using their top pick on a DB, and that was when they had Revis.  After initial success, they've been a bad, bad franchise.

 

And of course..there's the droughty Bills.

 

Not to mention that there is a pretty high bust factor.

 

Dee Millner

Justin Gilbert

Mo Claiborne

Eli Apple is going to be on his 3rd team since 2016, provided someone picks him up.

 

Those are guys taken in the top 10 in just the past 8 years. I think there were only 8 taken in the top 10 during that time.

 

Its about a 50% bust ratio.

 

Its an important position..but wayyyyy overrated as the place to build a franchise

 

 

I guess its a good thing I have never said CB is or should be the cornerstone of the franchise.  Other than being completely irrelevant to anything I have written in this thread, nice post.  I love the classic "if you disagree with me then you must certainly believe the extreme opposite" logic. 

 

Now go through the same exercise for every other position in the game and show me what positions we are allowed to draft in the first round. Probably kicker.  Only one first round kicker and he was a stud on the field!

 

[CookieG]

10 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I guess its a good thing I have never said CB is or should be the cornerstone of the franchise.  Other than being completely irrelevant to anything I have written in this thread, nice post.  I love the classic "if you disagree with me then you must certainly believe the extreme opposite" logic. 

 

Now go through the same exercise for every other position in the game and show me what positions we are allowed to draft in the first round. Probably kicker.  Only one first round kicker and he was a stud on the field!

 

Then what exactly DID you say?

 

You're the one prattling on about Revis and how CB is one of the few "money positions" on the field.

 

I love the classic, "oh *****, someone presented facts to refute my theory, so I better get snide with him," routine.

 

Let me know when you come up with something factual.

[Alphadawg7]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So on the Jags I think both lines are an issue. On the Lions their biggest issues have been the secondary (despite Slay the other three have been disaster zones) and obviously last year losing their Quarterback and their backup.

 

I just don't think replacing Slay with a rookie is going to move that team forward.  Yes, he is the top corner in the draft (graded at least), but look at the board, there are a lot of really promising corners and safeties on the board for their pick in the 2nd.  

18 minutes ago, CookieG said:

Yeah well, ..there's Revis..and um...Deion Sanders and...um...maybe Patrick Peterson, but then...how good have the Cards been since he's been drafted?  (3 winning season out of 8).

 

I don't know if you make it a rule that a DB is the cornerstone of your franchise when the two examples are from 20 and 30 years ago and are HOF'ers.

 

Cleveland has done it a number of times...Joe Haden, Denzell Ward, Justin Gilbert and people are still waiting for them to turn it around.  And hell, both Haden and Ward are good.  But neither transformed the Browns.

 

The Jets spent a better part of the Rex Ryan era using their top pick on a DB, and that was when they had Revis.  After initial success, they've been a bad, bad franchise.

 

And of course..there's the droughty Bills.

 

Not to mention that there is a pretty high bust factor.

 

Dee Millner

Justin Gilbert

Mo Claiborne

Eli Apple is going to be on his 3rd team since 2016, provided someone picks him up.

 

Those are guys taken in the top 10 in just the past 8 years. I think there were only 8 taken in the top 10 during that time.

 

Its about a 50% bust ratio.

 

Its an important position..but wayyyyy overrated as the place to build a franchise

 

 

 

All positions have about a 50% bust ratio in the top 10.  

[Jauronimo]

9 minutes ago, CookieG said:

Then what exactly DID you say?

 

You're the one prattling on about Revis and how CB is one of the few "money positions" on the field.

 

I love the classic, "oh *****, someone presented facts to refute my theory, so I better get snide with him," routine.

 

Let me know when you come up with something factual.

Go read the thread and catch up with the rest of the class.  Its all there in text. Take time off for headaches.

[Augie]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I do get Bill's point on this but this is not a class littered with studs. I think there were 3 slam dunk players in this class and they went 1,2 and 3. 

 

I thought the Lions would trade down too but per Schefter a lot of interest never materialised into a firm offer. So then what do you do? They have a need at pass rusher but there was nobody there who was even nearly worth the pick. Take a left tackle? Except they have a left tackle they drafted in the first round in Taylor Decker who has played pretty well. Take Tua? Yea they could have done that I suppose but there is a very good chance that Matt Stafford is a better Quarterback than Tua for at least the next couple of years. 

 

I have sympathy with the argument. I just don't necessarily see the alternative. Now if you want to slam Detroit for a first round pick start with them passing on Ed Oliver and Brian Burns last year to draft a freaking tight end at #8. 

 

I won’t slam them for that at all. In fact, I will be eternally grateful!!!     

 

 I thought of sending flowers, but that just felt wrong.....

[CookieG]

3 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Go read the thread and catch up with the rest of the class.  Its all there in text. Take time off for headaches. "

 

3 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

 

 

I think it was @thebandit27 who discussed  a draft strategy that makes much sense to me in using your early picks on positions that you pretty much can't address in free agency or trade with any reliability.  Those are your money positions.  QB, EDGE, Left Tackle, #1 WR, shutdown CB."

Let me know what I missed.

 

"Let me know when you come up with something factual."

 

 

Well, I tried.

 

 

[Bill from NYC]

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

Go read the thread and catch up with the rest of the class.  Its all there in text. Take time off for headaches.

Why is it that you see fit to be so condescending? Does it make you feel better about yourself? I hope that you are happier and more satisfied in life than you appear to be in this thread.

Stay healthy and God bless.

[Jauronimo]

52 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Why is it that you see fit to be so condescending? Does it make you feel better about yourself? I hope that you are happier and more satisfied in life than you appear to be in this thread.

Stay healthy and God bless.

I feel the need to put fools in their place who make ridiculous strawman arguments.  I disagree with the opinion that drafting defensive backs in the first round is a waste and somehow this wingnut construes that as me declaring that defensive back is the most important position on the field and fires back in an obnoxious manner. 

 

Anyone who reads this:

Quote

 

Revis made that Jets defense.  Not having to worry about one half of the football field makes your job a lot easier.

 

I think it was @thebandit27 who discussed  a draft strategy that makes much sense to me in using your early picks on positions that you pretty much can't address in free agency or trade with any reliability.  Those are your money positions.  QB, EDGE, Left Tackle, #1 WR, shutdown CB.

 

Guards, Centers, D Tackles, Linebackers, Running backs, safeties, tight ends, slot WRs need not apply.

 and then responds with:

 

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I don't know if you make it a rule that a DB is the cornerstone of your franchise when the two examples are from 20 and 30 years ago and are HOF'ers.

 and then further demands to know "just what I am saying", when its plainly written in the text that he responded to in the first place, deserves to get slapped around a little.  Or a lot.  

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I just don't think replacing Slay with a rookie is going to move that team forward.  Yes, he is the top corner in the draft (graded at least), but look at the board, there are a lot of really promising corners and safeties on the board for their pick in the 2nd.  

 

 

I do get that Alpha... and as I keep saying, I am sympathetic to the argument. What I still haven't been convinced by is what is alternative that makes that team better this year. I'm not sure how many a wins an upgrade at right tackle buys either. The right decision was a trade down, but nobody ended up making them an offer. So in that case staying in your spot and taking the best player available and it being a guy who plays a premium position at that #1 outside corner spot? I can't criticise them for that.

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I won’t slam them for that at all. In fact, I will be eternally grateful!!!     

 

 I thought of sending flowers, but that just felt wrong.....

 

There are at least 4 teams who passed on Ed Oliver who will regret it. The Cardinals, 49ers and Jags can't be knocked for their picks and if Daniel Jones continues to ascend then the Giants can't either. But the Jets? Raiders? Buccs? Lions? Man. Those four teams will be sorry for a long time.

[jrober38]

The Lions are completely inept. 

[Bill from NYC]

13 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 But the Jets? Raiders? Buccs? Lions? Man. Those four teams will be sorry for a long time.

This was a portion of what I was trying to get across with my OP. Stupidity is the norm for the Lions and Jags.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

This was a portion of what I was trying to get across with my OP. Stupidity is the norm for the Lions and Jags.

 

The two tight end picks in the top 10 are stupid I agree with that. My point back to you though was they have been a build up the trenches team since drafting their franchise QB and they have still lost for the most part. 

 

The Lions stupidity has been in never having a settled culture, until Quinn and Patricia they never seemed to have coaches and GMs on the same page and their talent evaluation hasn't been good enough. I would argue they have over drafted players for the trenches when they should have taken better players at other spots.