Warren Zevon Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Now, as to the Pegulas. Are they a "quality" ownership group? You might want to define what you mean by quality first. Have they made mistakes? Yes they have. Do all owner make mistakes? Yes they do. Let's separate the Bills and Sabres, starting with the Sabres. Terry has let his emotions perhaps overrun his brain sometimes, but they have hired guys who by all accounts should have succeeded. Murray had a good rep before taking the GM job, and turned into a disaster. Byslma - a former Stanley Cup winning coach who did not do well here. Botterill came out of a very successful organization, Houseley everyone thought was ready for his shot at a HC spot. And Housely didn't work and the ice is thin under Botterill. Sometimes you don't know whether a guy will succeed or not till they get put into the position, and the guys he's given a shot to haven't worked. And neither did the one guy with expereince in Bylsma. You can say bring an experienced guy in to right the ship, but how well did that work for the Leafs with Babcock? At this point the hope is that Kruger is the guy, but if he doesn't get it done than it might be time to look at whether it's the players on the roster that are more of the problem. Don't forget they ran one of the franchises most loved players (Pat Lafontaine) out of town within months and forced him to sign an NDA before ***** even began to hit the fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan2313 Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 20 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: If the Bill's are profitable then it still is a concern that the other business troubles could bleed in. For example if the Bill's are making money and the Pegula's are losing money everywhere else they may cut costs on the Bill's to maximize profits to make up for other losses. The last thing I want to hear from an owner is them being overly concerned about costs. They just traded for Diggs, and Beane has said they are open to restructuring his contract. How much money did the Bills spend this off season? 60 million? Yeah, I'm not worried at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Just now, Coach Tuesday said: Actually reading and critiquing isn’t part of the 4Chan troll strategy. Who needs to read, when you can look at the byline and KNOW it's all made up lies? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted April 21, 2020 Author Share Posted April 21, 2020 14 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: I am capable of reading what's in the thread, little buddy. So again, you’re calling SOMEONE ELSE a hack while criticizing an article you say you HAVEN’T ACTUALLY READ. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Just now, BillsFan2313 said: They just traded for Diggs, and Beane has said they are open to restructuring his contract. How much money did the Bills spend this off season? 60 million? Yeah, I'm not worried at all. Joe Exotic could run the Bills from prison and not clear less than 20 million a year.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 1 hour ago, CountDorkula said: Because he doesn't drink the kool-aid. If you don't talk good about buffalo, the bills, or the Pegulas you are just a hack, and it doesn't matter how much of your story has actual fact in it. You really should take a break from the team, they've soured you so. It isn't worth it. 1 hour ago, Warren Zevon said: This is the most important part of the article. Arguing about the author is a red herring. There should be chatter about a McDermott contract extension after this year and if there isn't it's time to be worried. So, we can think about being worried in 10 months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, Warren Zevon said: Don't forget they ran one of the franchises most loved players (Pat Lafontaine) out of town within months and forced him to sign an NDA before ***** even began to hit the fan. That was when they had Black running the operation, and that conflict has never been fully explained on either side of the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Graham needs the click-bait. Can't afford to be fired from yet another job... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Owning an NFL football team is a hobby, not an investment. no more than racing competitive RC cars is an investment. If you or I go out and buy a $5000 dollar RC car for competitive racing, you gotta face the fact that you might crash it. Yes, you might win 10 grand if you win the championship but you also might just as easily crash the RC car. And be out 5 thousand dollars. If you are in a hobby for return on your investment, you're done before you even get started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: That was when they had Black running the operation, and that conflict has never been fully explained on either side of the equation. It's still a huge part of their epic fail with the Sabres and things have been spiraling out of control ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 19 hours ago, GunnerBill said: It is a good piece of journalism. I guess people see what they want to see. I see a ton of words, not saying much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Talkin Proud said: Owning an NFL football team is a hobby, not an investment. no more than racing competitive RC cars is an investment. If you or I go out and buy a $5000 dollar RC car for competitive racing, you gotta face the fact that you might crash it. Yes, you might win 10 grand if you win the championship but you also might just as easily crash the RC car. And be out 5 thousand dollars. If you are in a hobby for return on your investment, you're done before you even get started. It's a hobby to a point. No owner is going to keep a team around that's losing gobs of money and threatens their personal fortune. I think the Pegulas would be fine incurring a few million in losses on the Sabres, seeing as how hockey is Terry's passion and the Bills more than make up for it, but if they're losing $20-40M like this article suggests, I can't see them keeping it long-term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 42 minutes ago, HappyDays said: It's a very well written article and I'm sure the employees there have a legitimate grievance about how some of this was handled. In general I just don't see anything here I didn't already know How is it well written when we all knew this stuff already? Because it's long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, BillsFan2313 said: They just traded for Diggs, and Beane has said they are open to restructuring his contract. How much money did the Bills spend this off season? 60 million? Yeah, I'm not worried at all. It isn't necessarily spending on players that would worry me, it is more so spending on the coaching staff and organizational infrastructure that would concern me. Ralph's cheapness extended beyond the cash to cap spending. The Bills always had subpar facilities, subpar coaching and training staffs, lackluster infrastructure and just generally were always second rate in most aspects. Pegula has been the polar opposite so far these past 5 seasons. The Bills have some of the most modern facilities in the league, one of the most respected training and coaching staffs and have let Beane put together on the of the best football infrastructures in the league. BUT if the Bills remain the profit engine of the Pegula's business and they need to paper over other losses in other businesses then that's when things could get sticky in terms of paying top dollar for football infrastructure. Should it be a concern short term? No I think in 2020 and 2021 they are fine. But long term? I could see it being concerning. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, Talkin Proud said: Owning an NFL football team is a hobby, not an investment. no more than racing competitive RC cars is an investment. If you or I go out and buy a $5000 dollar RC car for competitive racing, you gotta face the fact that you might crash it. Yes, you might win 10 grand if you win the championship but you also might just as easily crash the RC car. And be out 5 thousand dollars. If you are in a hobby for return on your investment, you're done before you even get started. For guys like Ralph and Jerry it was an investment that paid off massively and was/is the majority of their net worth. You can't lose money investing in an NFL team. Buy one, make tens of millions in profits per year whether the team wins games or not, sell it at any time for 10% profit (compounded annually). It's the best investment in the world. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: For guys like Ralph and Jerry it was an investment that paid off massively and was/is the majority of their net worth. You can't lose money investing in an NFL team. Buy one, make tens of millions in profits per year whether the team wins games or not, sell it at any time for 10% profit (compounded annually). It's the best investment in the world. Owning an NFL franchise is a toy for bulti- billionaires. If Terry keeps the Bills for 30 years I would imagine he will have turned a massive profit whether they win the Superbowl or not. It truly is a large scale hobby though and if he is relying on the bills to boost his per year income massively after owning them for a handful of years he is looking at it wrong, that's my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Just now, Doc said: It's a hobby to a point. No owner is going to keep a team around that's losing gobs of money and threatens their personal fortune. I think the Pegulas would be fine incurring a few million in losses on the Sabres, seeing as how hockey is Terry's passion and the Bills more than make up for it, but if they're losing $20-40M like this article suggests, I can't see them keeping it long-term. There is a reasonable limit to what you can eat as far as losses. But if you are a billionaire worth 5 billion dollars (as is Pegula's suggested net worth) eating 20-40 million in losses yearly can sound like a lot but in reality is a very small position of his wealth (Even at 40 million a year we are talking about less than 1% of his wealth) considering that you could make double that on a very stable bond I don't think his lifestyle or wealth is all that threatened by Sabers and sports yearly losses (and considering the write off on taxes that number does come down a bit.) I think that there also exists the matter of how much the franchise is appreciated in value yearly as well. Beyond the business aspects the fact remains that modern sports ownership is a loss leader operations wise. These teams are the toys of billionaires and there are many owners willing to eat 20-40 million in operating losses in order to win as many games as possible. So if you aren't willing to treat the team like a loss leader than you are likely going to be behind the eight ball and handicap your team from winning sustainably. So the question then remains does Pegula have the stomach to be a modern sports owner? Or does he need to make as much money as possible? Is he willing to eat the losses on the Saber and on occasion the Bills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, Talkin Proud said: Owning an NFL franchise is a toy for bulti- billionaires. If Terry keeps the Bills for 30 years I would imagine he will have turned a massive profit whether they win the Superbowl or not. It truly is a large scale hobby though and if he is relying on the bills to boost his per year income massively after owning them for a handful of years he is looking at it wrong, that's my opinion. You equated it to a hobby where you might win, you might lose money. He can't lose money with this investment. The price of investment is high, but the return is massive---plus simply owning it affords the owner unmatched status and a dream-like sporting lifestyle. Of course he is looking at the Bills to provide income to support his hospitality business! Why on earth wouldn't he? It's free money that can prop up money losers like hotels and restaurants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 38 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: So again, you’re calling SOMEONE ELSE a hack while criticizing an article you say you HAVEN’T ACTUALLY READ. Hold on, reading my 4chan handbook to find out how to handle this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 30 minutes ago, Warren Zevon said: It's still a huge part of their epic fail with the Sabres and things have been spiraling out of control ever since. Epic fail? Spiraling out of control? Calm down. It will turn around at some point. I think Kruger might have what it takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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