The Big Gamble: Hydroxychloroquine

[Magox]

1 minute ago, shoshin said:

 

Did you not see that I noted that the Korea study was a promising study or did you just rush to attack? 

 

I treat the data points as they come. That study published 2 days ago. Believe it or not, in the last two days, I hadn't read it! 

 

 

Read what they cited and get back to me. Good doctors wouldn't jump on a drug and write a letter based on the data they cited in that letter. The AZ docs rushed in. 

 

 

Your hunches and intuition? I have no hunch or intuition about HCQ. I read the studies. 

 

 

 

 

 

You're quickly approaching the "not to take serious" group of this board.

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Magox said:

You're quickly approaching the "not to take serious" group of this board.

 

He got there awhile ago when it comes to medicine.  It's a partisan fight for these guys.

[Chef Jim]

56 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It makes me think he was genuinely concerned understanding how impressionable some people are no matter what side of the aisle they're on.

 

We cannot protect all the dumb people of the world.  

Edited May 20, 2020 by Chef Jim

[shoshin]

 

39 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

 

You're quickly approaching the "not to take serious" group of this board.

 

Are you personally upset at me because I blew up your assertions about hospitalizations? Who cares man? Lots of data and yours was an easy mistake to make. 

 

I'll be happy if HCQ pans out in any way. That Korea study is promising.

[Magox]

And this is why it is taking so long to come down to a definitive conclusion.

 

you will need to read on down the thread 

 

 

[Nanker]

Interesting to me is the fact that Jonas Salk went from injecting himself and his family, and a handful of others with his anti-polio vaccine, straight to field trials with 1.8 MILLION GRAMMAR SCHOOL CHILDREN. Now THAT was a clinical trial!

 

[shoshin]

42 minutes ago, Nanker said:

Interesting to me is the fact that Jonas Salk went from injecting himself and his family, and a handful of others with his anti-polio vaccine, straight to field trials with 1.8 MILLION GRAMMAR SCHOOL CHILDREN. Now THAT was a clinical trial!

 

 

Polio was a nightmare and people believed in vaccines enough to take the chance on them.

 

Now polio has been gone so long that people are willing to let polio comeback because vaccines are some kind of evil. 

 

Definitely strange. 

[MILFHUNTER#518]

Fredo took a much more dangerous and not FDA approved version of Hydroxychloroquine, quinine.

 

And, yes. KMac just effectively ended Fredo's fledgling career.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by MILFHUNTER#518

[MILFHUNTER#518]

Apparently, Fredo's wife did an end around his doctor to get the Quinine.

 

This is RICH.

 

 

[B-Man]

 

AND YET POOLS WERE CLOSED EVERYWHERE, WITH NO SCIENCE BEHIND THE DECISION: 

 

‘No evidence’ COVID-19 can be spread in swimming pools, CDC says.

 

Apparently the only coronavirus countermeasure that can’t be deployed without peer-reviewed, double-blind studies involving thousands is hydroxychloroquine.

 

 

 

For everything else it’s just go with your gut and shout “Science!” at anyone who expresses doubts.

 

 

 

 

 

[shoshin]

3 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

AND YET POOLS WERE CLOSED EVERYWHERE, WITH NO SCIENCE BEHIND THE DECISION: 

 

‘No evidence’ COVID-19 can be spread in swimming pools, CDC says.

 

Apparently the only coronavirus countermeasure that can’t be deployed without peer-reviewed, double-blind studies involving thousands is hydroxychloroquine.

 

 

 

For everything else it’s just go with your gut and shout “Science!” at anyone who expresses doubts.

 

 

 

 

 

Coronaviruses don’t live in chlorinated water...not exactly a big scientific insight.
 

You probably don’t need a study to prove whether coronavirus survives a turpentine bath.  

[Koko78]

9 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

 

I'm not sure who is more senile, Biden or his idiot handlers/strategists.

[The Guy In Pants]

4 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

I'm not sure who is more senile, Biden or his idiot handlers/strategists.

 

It would appear that his senility is contagious. 

[Prickly Pete]

3 hours ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

Fredo took a much more dangerous and not FDA approved version of Hydroxychloroquine, quinine.

 

And, yes. KMac just effectively ended Fredo's fledgling career.

 

 

 

She is damn good. I'm a believer.

 

[SectionC3]

7 hours ago, Doc said:

 

I don't think he got ahead of his skis on this.  I think he was alerted to something (again with science behind it) that was a known drug, that was safe enough to still be in use after 60+ years and used by tens of millions of people on a daily basis, and when the pandemic was scaring everyone and there was nothing else to treat it.  The reaction from the left suggested to me that they cared more about this pandemic killing people and making Trump look bad than trying anything (within reason) to combat this disease. 

This is where we part ways.  The “ahead of his skis” could occur after initially referring to the drug, perhaps in having Jared buy millions of doses on spec, or perhaps in taking it as a prophylactic when there’s not thing to suggest that it’s a good idea for him. Bottom line: he took a shot on something unproven when he first took an interest in the pandemic.  There’s nothing wrong with that.  But then when it turned out that the efficacy of the drug is limited at best in this context, instead of admitting he chased a ghost he doubled down.  And that’s where he got himself in (even more) trouble. 

 

 

6 hours ago, shoshin said:

 

I noted that the Korea study was promising once I read it. You are so eager to attack. Why?

 

I treat the data points as they come. That study published 2 days ago. Believe it or not, in the last two days, I hadn't read it! 

 

 

Read what they cited and get back to me. Good doctors wouldn't jump on a drug and write a letter based on the data they cited in that letter. The AZ docs rushed in. 

 

 

Your hunches and intuition? I have no hunch or intuition about HCQ. I read the studies. 

 

 

 

The AZ docs are part of a group with some questionable theories.  Take it for what it’s worth. 

[Doc]

23 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

This is where we part ways.  The “ahead of his skis” could occur after initially referring to the drug, perhaps in having Jared buy millions of doses on spec, or perhaps in taking it as a prophylactic when there’s not thing to suggest that it’s a good idea for him. Bottom line: he took a shot on something unproven when he first took an interest in the pandemic.  There’s nothing wrong with that.  But then when it turned out that the efficacy of the drug is limited at best in this context, instead of admitting he chased a ghost he doubled down.  And that’s where he got himself in (even more) trouble.

 

Not determined yet and again anecdotal evidence from those who have been using it says otherwise.  I have yet to read about a legitimate study where they used HCQ (and not CQ) and zinc together.

 

[Reality Check]

 

[shoshin]

9 hours ago, Reality Check said:

 

 

Not going to watch 7 minutes of Dershowitz or whatever that is but if he's just talking about legal precedent, he's correct that the Supreme Court ruled on this in a few cases. 

 

It's a rising issue because so many people are trying to bring back the oldies like the measles and TB...maybe get the polio band back together since they've dropped off the radar. 

 

It's impressive that it's only taken a decade or so for the once-nearly-eradicated diseases to get traction in the US. 

Edited May 21, 2020 by shoshin

[Reality Check]

2 hours ago, shoshin said:

 

Not going to watch 7 minutes of Dershowitz or whatever that is but if he's just talking about legal precedent, he's correct that the Supreme Court ruled on this in a few cases. 

 

It's a rising issue because so many people are trying to bring back the oldies like the measles and TB...maybe get the polio band back together since they've dropped off the radar. 

 

It's impressive that it's only taken a decade or so for the once-nearly-eradicated diseases to get traction in the US. 

 

[shoshin]

Graduation speech from yesterday given at the U of Arts and Sciences: 

 

Armed with the skill set comes from studies at the University of Sciences, many of you will become involved on the front line in this and future threats to public health. It’s not enough that this be some of your vocational pursuit. It must also be all of your civic duty.

 

Even before the pandemic, we were experiencing an ignorance and debasement of science. 

 

The most pressing questions of our time...were too often being solved with ideology and not evidence.   

 

You want to know the 5 words I’d like to hear more often from elected officials: “What does the data say?"

 

The pandemic has magnified the illogic of the status quo. 

 

Consider the career experience of the current United States Senate. Of the one- hundred “representatives,” only six report experience in science or medicine. Forty- nine have law degrees. There are just as many real estate agents and developers – five -  as there are health care professionals.

 

In a time when we need quick and correct action on matters of public health, only 5 percent of Senators have any experience working in it. It is no wonder when confronted with a pandemic our government “experts” turned to the experts in your fields for answers. 

 

How great it would be if the office holders were the experts!