Should absentee ballots be illegal?

[Cinga]

5 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

I live in CA. Do you? 

 

Were you here in 2018? If not, then you don't know what the hell you're talking about. 

 

But I thought @Motorin' was a Coronavirus/UFO/Climate Change/Election Process expert?

[Motorin']

1 hour ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

This just tells me you have no understanding of how ballot harvesting works. It doesn't make you wrong so much as opinionated on something you don't understand.

 

Here is a nice story from the San Francisco Chronicle, which you will agree is no right wing nutbag publication.

 

 

Educate, then opine. It happens in CA and if it happened country-wide, it would be the end of responsible voting as we know it because both sides would do it to a fault.

 

 

Nice article. Did you read it? 

 

I see no where in the definition of "harvesting" anything necessarily fraudulent. There is no charge of stealing ballots, changing ballots or inserting dead people's ballots. 

 

It sounds like a super aggressive way to turn out the vote. If you're going to claim that anyone took the signed and sealed ballots and altered them, you need this thing called evidence. 

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

I live in CA. Do you? 

 

Were you here in 2018? If not, then you don't know what the hell you're talking about. 

I'd love to see if evidence that any votes were altered, stolen or otherwise fraudulent. And if they were, those people should absolutely go to jail.

 

2 minutes ago, Cinga said:

 

But I thought @Motorin' was a Coronavirus/UFO/Climate Change/Election Process expert?

Sick burn bro. Too bad I'm not an expert on satanic sex cults and the governments they control, you guys would totally accept me then.

[Deranged Rhino]

2 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

I'd love to see if evidence that any votes were altered, stolen or otherwise fraudulent. And if they were, those people should absolutely go to jail.

 

There was TONS of videos in 2018 of people going door to door harvesting ballots only to toss them or change them. The internet is forever. Take a spin on the wayback machine and take a gander. 

 

Ballot Harvesting (which is legal in CA) is legalized cheating in its implementation.

[Motorin']

Just now, Deranged Rhino said:

 

There was TONS of videos in 2018 of people going door to door harvesting ballots only to toss them or change them. The internet is forever. Take a spin on the wayback machine and take a gander. 

 

Ballot Harvesting (which is legal in CA) is legalized cheating in its implementation.

Aren't you the guy who believed the internet video by the kid who couldn't get in the front door of the hospital that he proved the hospital was empty? 

 

As far as the proof of cheating, if you know how to find them I will take a look and it may change my mind. Give me your best ones.

 

 

[IDBillzFan]

8 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

Nice article. Did you read it? 

 

I see no where in the definition of "harvesting" anything necessarily fraudulent. There is no charge of stealing ballots, changing ballots or inserting dead people's ballots. 

 

I never said it was fraudulent in CA. It's actually perfectly legal. Including the ability to get the person to sign the ballot and let the person collecting the ballot fill it out for them.

 

What I said was it was the way to disenfranchise your vote. 

 

 

[B-Man]

On 5/11/2020 at 11:48 AM, B-Man said:

 

JOHN FUND:  Mail-In Ballots are a Recipe for Confusion, Coercion and Fraud.

 

FTA

 

 

“ballot harvesting,” whereby political operatives go door-to-door collecting ballots that they then deliver to election officials.

All of these would dramatically reduce safeguards protecting election integrity.

 

 

California’s governor, Gavin Newsom, signed an executive order requiring that every registered voter — including those listed as “inactive” — be mailed a ballot this November.

 

This could be a disaster waiting to happen. Los Angeles County (population 10 million) has a registration rate of 112 percent of its adult citizen population. More than one out of every five L.A. County registrations probably belongs to a voter who has moved, or who is deceased or otherwise ineligible.

 

Just last January, the public-interest law firm Judicial Watch reached a settlement agreement with the State of California and L.A. County officials to begin removing as many as 1.5 million inactive voters whose registrations may be invalid. Neither state nor county officials in California have been removing inactive voters from the rolls for 20 years, even though the U.S. Supreme Court affirmed last year, in Husted v. Randolph Institute, a case about Ohio’s voter-registration laws, that federal law “makes this removal mandatory.”

 

 

Experts have long cautioned against wholesale use of mail ballots, which are cast outside the scrutiny of election officials. “Absentee ballots remain the largest source of potential voter fraud,” was the conclusion of the bipartisan 2005 Commission on Federal Election Reform, chaired by former president Jimmy Carter and former secretary of state James Baker.

 

That remains true today. In 2012, a Miami–Dade County Grand Jury issued a public report recommending that Florida change its law to prohibit “ballot harvesting” unless the ballots are “those of the voter and members of the voter’s immediate family.” “Once that ballot is out of the hands of the elector, we have no idea what happens to it,” they pointed out. “The possibilities are numerous and scary.”

 

Indeed. In 2018, a political consultant named Leslie McCrae Dowless and seven others were indicted on charges of “scheming to illegally collect, fill in, forge and submit mail-in ballots” to benefit Republican congressional candidate Mark Harris, the Washington Post reported. The fraud was extensive enough that Harris’s 900-vote victory was invalidated by the courts and the race was rerun. (neither side can be trusted with this loose balloting)

 

Texas has a long history of intimidation and coercion involving absentee ballots. The abuse of elderly voters is so pervasive that Omar Escobar, the Democratic district attorney of Starr County, Texas, says, “The time has come to consider an alternative to mail-in voting.” Escobar says it needs to be replaced with “something that can’t be hijacked.”

 

 

 

 

 

But, hey, what do those folks know...............

 

 

.

[Deranged Rhino]

4 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

Aren't you the guy who believed the internet video by the kid who couldn't get in the front door of the hospital that he proved the hospital was empty? 

 

Nope.

4 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

As far as the proof of cheating, if you know how to find them I will take a look and it may change my mind. Give me your best ones

 

They exist on this board. Do your own homework, Sue.

[Cinga]

6 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

Aren't you the guy who believed the internet video by the kid who couldn't get in the front door of the hospital that he proved the hospital was empty? 

 

As far as the proof of cheating, if you know how to find them I will take a look and it may change my mind. Give me your best ones.

 

 

Here is some ballot fraud going on right now in NJ. About 6 percent of the ballots have been set aside so far. That's enough to tilt almost any election under normal circumstances.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/hundreds-of-mail-in-votes-already-set-aside-due-to-paterson-voter-fraud-claims/2414171/

 

Quote

More than 800 mail-in votes in one of New Jersey's largest cities have already been set aside, according to a county spokesperson, as an election is marred by allegations of voter fraud.

 

[Warren Zevon]

6 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

 

 

You going to opt out of voting next week because you are anti-mail in ballot?

[Motorin']

7 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

I never said it was fraudulent in CA. It's actually perfectly legal. Including the ability to get the person to sign the ballot and let the person collecting the ballot fill it out for them.

 

What I said was it was the way to disenfranchise your vote. 

 

 

Is that actually true? Or an assumption? 

[Motorin']

16 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Nope.

 

They exist on this board. Do your own homework, Sue.

Who you calling Sue? I'll sue you, for punative damages! https://youtu.be/QhjBlPucpd0

 

[Deranged Rhino]

2 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

Who you calling Sue? I'll sue you, for punative damages! https://youtu.be/QhjBlPucpd0

 

 

You. 

 

And if you learn the history of TSW, you'll understand the reference  

[IDBillzFan]

16 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

Is that actually true? Or an assumption? 

 

It is true that you can sign your ballot and let someone fill it in for you? Yes.

 

Is it true that it disenfranchises your vote? Yes.

 

 

[Joe Miner]

1 hour ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

It is true that you can sign your ballot and let someone fill it in for you? Yes.

 

Is it true that it disenfranchises your vote? Yes.

 

 

 

[3rdnlng]

1 hour ago, Joe Miner said:

 

[Motorin']

2 hours ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

It is true that you can sign your ballot and let someone fill it in for you? Yes.

 

Is it true that it disenfranchises your vote? Yes.

 

 

When I've voted by mail, the signature on the envelope required me to affirm that I was the only person to mark and seal the ballot. 

 

It looks like the California ballot requires voters to affirm that they placed the ballot in the envelope. 

 

Does federal election law stipulate whether or not it is legal to allow others to vote for you? Have the courts ruled on this?

 

If it does exist in federal law, and I suspect that it does, that would superviene on California's election process, making it a crime to vote for someone else. I'm having a hard time tracking down in California's election law where it specifically allows for another to vote for you.

 

If it doesn't exist, I would support federal legislation making it illegal to vote for someone else. If only the Republicans and Democrats could have worked on a bill that stipulated that it was illegal to mark someone else's ballot as vote by mail expands during coronavirus! 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by Motorin'

[Koko78]

4 hours ago, Motorin' said:

It looks like the California ballot requires voters to affirm that they placed the ballot in the envelope.

 

Well, that solves that, then. Zero chance of tampering and fraud, because of the affirmations!

[Taro T]

18 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

Well, that solves that, then. Zero chance of tampering and fraud, because of the affirmations!

 

If only somebody had been smart enough to put up a sign stating "this is an election fraud free state" then ALL the people looking to game the system would finally be thwarted.

 

It worked with guns.  Right?

[Koko78]

47 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

If only somebody had been smart enough to put up a sign stating "this is an election fraud free state" then ALL the people looking to game the system would finally be thwarted.

 

It worked with guns.  Right?

 

And drugs.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Koko78 said:

 

And drugs.

 

True.