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Dkollidas

How do Dugger/Chinn fit into our defense?

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If drafted, they’re both safety’s that can play in the box and play LB in sub packages. Could see Dugger playing some Nickel to back-up or eventually replace Taron Johnson (he tested quickly enough to do it at least).

 

I just believe these are the types of players we’ll need in order to compete with Baltimore and Kansas City if we plan on making it through the AFC. 

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OP, good question.  I believe these 2 players would be ideal Big Nickel S that Neal and Marlowe played last year.  And have to believe they would be key STers right out of the gate on coverage teams - Bills do need help in that area too.

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I wonder how they would fit as well.  If the idea is to add them and play 2 LBs frequently using their size/speed either in secondary or LB to help disguise defense, it makes some sense.  But, to me I think it is more likely that they will look for a CB than a big safety if they make a pick in the secondary.  Duggar and Chin are both outstanding testing athletes, but from a lower level of competition that you really need to project how they will pan out in the NFL. 
 

 

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I'd say they don't....with the current contracts tied up in Safety positions plus Neal and J. Johnson, their Draft status is too high to get them into One Bills Drive. The team has real depth issues at RB / WR / CB and Edge that need that attention. Are they good players? Yes, and most likely will do well at the NFL level, but the timing just isn't right for either of them to be on the team (barring a trade of Hyde). 

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I like Chinn maybe they could play him at LB or Nickel. Move him around. He is long and fast which is always good to have 

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56 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

If drafted, they’re both safety’s that can play in the box and play LB in sub packages. Could see Dugger playing some Nickel to back-up or eventually replace Taron Johnson (he tested quickly enough to do it at least).

 

I just believe these are the types of players we’ll need in order to compete with Baltimore and Kansas City if we plan on making it through the AFC. 

I agree, using a nickel spy would better be a better match up vs Jackson and Mahomes. 

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I think they both fit in.  Lots of versatility.  Chinn does appear to be the better prospect, IMO, but I'd be happy with either one.  

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1 hour ago, BigBuff423 said:

I'd say they don't....with the current contracts tied up in Safety positions plus Neal and J. Johnson, their Draft status is too high to get them into One Bills Drive. The team has real depth issues at RB / WR / CB and Edge that need that attention. Are they good players? Yes, and most likely will do well at the NFL level, but the timing just isn't right for either of them to be on the team (barring a trade of Hyde). 

I see the need to draft another RB for sure, and earlier than later if they don’t add someone like Carlos Hyde or Lamar Miller.

 

I also see the need to draft WR, but with such a deep class and a top-4 of Diggs (do it all #1), Brown (slotted into perfect outside #2 role) Beasley (great spot #3 option) and McKenzie (solid Gadget player). Adding a guy in the 4th or 5th round who can turn McKenzie into an afterthought and put one of Foster/Williams on the chopping block is a pretty realistic possibility. I don’t think they need to use 54 or 86 to do that. 128, or a slight move up from there should net them a solid WR in this years class. 
 

I agree on corner to an extent, but it looks like they’re bringing in the veterans to challenge Wallace. Norman & Gaines are veteran players who have probably lost a step but will be put in a position where they don’t need to be the greatest athletes. And don’t forget, this defense was top-5 in the league and Wallace played about 70% of the snaps. Not saying he’s great, because he has his warts, but I believe they’ll add someone deeper as well.

 

Looking at edge I just don’t really see the room to add an early pick. They’ve got Hughes and Addison as starters. Murphy, Jefferson (hell play all over the defensive front I believe), plus Daryl Johnson, who we might not be very high on but got snaps on defense along with playing all 4-phases of special teams. He’s an athlete who they might think just need proper development. I see the need for it long term, but I believe they’ll wait a year to address it in the draft. 
 

I don’t see a huge need at safety, but they do usually keep 5. Jaquan Johnson is interesting but might be only depth. Marlowe is a great team guy and all, but is also just depth. Dugger/Chinn would immediately allow for some different schemes out of the back of the defensive formation, in particular DB blitzes. 
 

Also our LB depth is pretty slim. Behind Milano/Edmunds/Klein we have Corey Thompson, who I wouldn’t want to see start. Matakevich, who’s a special teamer, and Vosean Joseph, who was on IR all of last season after being injured in pre-season. 
 

I think a backup RB is our #1 need. 
Depth at Linebacker, Corner, Safety and Edge is all after that in whichever order you prefer. I think it also comes down to the talent at each level, I wouldn’t imagine we’ll be near guys like Epenesa or Gross-Matos, and I just don’t really like many of the edge players after that. 

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1 hour ago, BigBuff423 said:

I'd say they don't....with the current contracts tied up in Safety positions plus Neal and J. Johnson, their Draft status is too high to get them into One Bills Drive. The team has real depth issues at RB / WR / CB and Edge that need that attention. Are they good players? Yes, and most likely will do well at the NFL level, but the timing just isn't right for either of them to be on the team (barring a trade of Hyde). 

If we have “real depth issues” at CB and WR than so does every team in the NFL

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6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

If we have “real depth issues” at CB and WR than so does every team in the NFL

 

Depth isn't as much a concern as age.    Wallace may be the young CB they can groom, but Norman and Gaines are just stopgaps (if that) right now.   McD likes to develop young players who can step in after a year of mentoring, so it would make sense to draft a CB, S or WR prospect this year to keep the train rolling in 2021...

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5 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Depth isn't as much a concern as age.    Wallace may be the young CB they can groom, but Norman and Gaines are just stopgaps (if that) right now.   McD likes to develop young players who can step in after a year of mentoring, so it would make sense to draft a CB, S or WR prospect this year to keep the train rolling in 2021...

Name a coach that doesn’t like to develop young players who can step in after a year of mentoring?  That’s one of the ways all teams build.  It’s nothing new.  
 

When you recognize the window to win a super bowl Is open for your team, that SHOULD take precedence over everything.  If they can add a player that can help you next year or a player that can help you this year, you add the player that can help you this year.  Our first 2 picks should be in our rotation imo.  
 

 

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4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Name a coach that doesn’t like to develop young players who can step in after a year of mentoring?  That’s one of the ways all teams build.  It’s nothing new.  
 

When you recognize the window to win a super bowl Is open for your team, that SHOULD take precedence over everything.  If they can add a player that can help you next year or a player that can help you this year, you add the player that can help you this year.  Our first 2 picks should be in our rotation imo.  
 

 

 

Agreed to some extent.  But that's also how you turn into Atlanta or the Rams.    I don't see McBeane being those kind of "put it all on red" type of risk takers...

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1 hour ago, NewEra said:

If we have “real depth issues” at CB and WR than so does every team in the NFL

 

I agree....but when you look at the other positions, they have layers of good to great players. CB is a Norman downturn and a Gaines injury away from needing to put in a WR as a CB, like last year. This year is when you can take a WR and allow their talent to churn with their NFL development, especially given the age of Brown and Beasley. So my point is simply between the lack of consistent, healthy depth at CB and the absolutely boon of elite talent at WR and the need to think ahead, those two come to mind right after RB. Edge is there merely due to age of the aforementioned players and that Trent is no guarantee to be on the roster come opening weekend. JMO

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Dugger's college competition is what worries most people out there, me included. But damn, it is fun watching his highlights. Looks like a man playing against a PeeWee football team. I'm going to be keeping an eye on his career even if he's not with the Bills.

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20 minutes ago, somnus00 said:

 Looks like a man playing against a PeeWee football team. 

 

Well, he sort of is. 

 

He's 3-4 years older (24 years old) than most of the guys he's playing against...

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2 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

Agreed to some extent.  But that's also how you turn into Atlanta or the Rams.    I don't see McBeane being those kind of "put it all on red" type of risk takers...


There is a middle ground between the Rams philosophy and where Beanes should be.  Playing it for the present and the future can be tough to balance.  It can be the difference between the rams and the chiefs.  I thought the chiefs blew their wad in a bad way in sammy.  His production doesn’t meet that of his contract.....but he was their leading WR in the playoffs and won a SB.  It was a play they needed to make

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Big nickel.  Put one of them in when the team is in a nickel formation.  He can give you pass coverage, particularly in the short zone, while being big enough to pack at least a little "whallop" when tackling a running back.

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I like Dugger, I think he's exactly the type of high upside guy Beane likes. I'd love it if he falls to the 3rd, but won't be shocked if we take him in the 2nd.

 

I think with either guy, you're looking at just a special teams ace in year 1. They're both too raw to contribute much defensively as a rookie with reduced offseason/camp.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/1/2020 at 11:06 PM, freddyjj said:

OP, good question.  I believe these 2 players would be ideal Big Nickel S that Neal and Marlowe played last year.  And have to believe they would be key STers right out of the gate on coverage teams - Bills do need help in that area too.

 

 

 

Yeah, they'd probably both be big nickels. Some teams are using their tall receivers as slot guys to create matchups where typical slot corners can't handle them. If you're not facing one of those big WRs that week you can put a big nickel on a TE, in zone, as a box safety ..... The great thing about guys like this is they can do so many things that having them in isn't a tell on whether you're playing zone or man or what.

Edited by Thurman#1
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