How do Dugger/Chinn fit into our defense?

[CaptnCoke11]

Dugger no thanks.. Chin absolutely all day

Edited April 2, 2020 by CaptnCoke11

[Blank Stare]

IMO Still haven’t done enough to fix the offense. Diggs is a great get, but they should be focused on surrounding Josh with as many playmakers as possible. Like Mahomes in KC. Points win games. Score more please.
 

Only position that makes any sense to me to take in Rd 2 on defense is DE. 

[billspro]

13 hours ago, BigBuff423 said:

I'd say they don't....with the current contracts tied up in Safety positions plus Neal and J. Johnson, their Draft status is too high to get them into One Bills Drive. The team has real depth issues at RB / WR / CB and Edge that need that attention. Are they good players? Yes, and most likely will do well at the NFL level, but the timing just isn't right for either of them to be on the team (barring a trade of Hyde). 

have to disagree here. They would fit in just like Shaq Thompson did in Carolina.

4 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Digger no thanks.. Chin absolutely all day

Chinn in the 2nd, Duggar in the 3rd, or Muse in the 4/5th. That position needs to get filled in this draft. 

10 hours ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

I agree....but when you look at the other positions, they have layers of good to great players. CB is a Norman downturn and a Gaines injury away from needing to put in a WR as a CB, like last year. This year is when you can take a WR and allow their talent to churn with their NFL development, especially given the age of Brown and Beasley. So my point is simply between the lack of consistent, healthy depth at CB and the absolutely boon of elite talent at WR and the need to think ahead, those two come to mind right after RB. Edge is there merely due to age of the aforementioned players and that Trent is no guarantee to be on the roster come opening weekend. JMO

We still have Levi Wallace. It would be nice to add depth at CB, OT, and WR but it is not necessary. The biggest needs are RB, big nickel, and edge imo. The other three needs can wait until next year to be addressed. 

[FluffHead]

They both remind of me Former Carolina 1st round pick Shaq Thompson... who was selected when both McBeane were there. So you know what that means. 

[Coach Tuesday]

What about Ashtyn Davis if he falls to the late 2nd or 3rd?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

18 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

If drafted, they’re both safety’s that can play in the box and play LB in sub packages. Could see Dugger playing some Nickel to back-up or eventually replace Taron Johnson (he tested quickly enough to do it at least).

 

I just believe these are the types of players we’ll need in order to compete with Baltimore and Kansas City if we plan on making it through the AFC. 

 

i really like the kid from Clemson , Tanner Muse 62   231 , to fit in the LB/S role. Fast and big.

 

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Buffalo Barbarian

[BigBuff423]

7 hours ago, billspro said:

have to disagree here. They would fit in just like Shaq Thompson did in Carolina.

Chinn in the 2nd, Duggar in the 3rd, or Muse in the 4/5th. That position needs to get filled in this draft. 

We still have Levi Wallace. It would be nice to add depth at CB, OT, and WR but it is not necessary. The biggest needs are RB, big nickel, and edge imo. The other three needs can wait until next year to be addressed. 

 

To your first point, I'm not saying Chinn and Duggar aren't good players, but they just handed Poyer a lucrative extension for a Safety and Hyde still under contract while they have two good but wrong-side-of-30 year old WRs and remember when a WR had to play CB last year? Gaines is no guarantee to make it past Pre-Season and I do think Norman will rebound a bit, but T. Johnson and Siran Neal did well in the big Nickel role - and Wallace is good, but good players at CB aren't easy to find and if you can Draft one in the early mid-rounds (2nd / 3rd), for where this team is in terms of roster development, you do it (IMO). Everything else seems like we agree, but I just don't see the value in adding a Safety in the 2nd or 3rd Round when this isn't a good year for Safety while you can grab a WR in the early to mid rounds that is likely to be a real contributor to the Offense for years to come. Chase Claypool, Aiyuk, Bryan Edwards, etc. would all be very good WRs for the Bills and provide much needed play-making depth this year and probably good starters in the years to follow. Not dipping into the WR pool that is arguably the best it's been in a very long time would be foolish, IMHO. 

[Thurman#1]

12 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

I see the need to draft another RB for sure, and earlier than later if they don’t add someone like Carlos Hyde or Lamar Miller.

 

I also see the need to draft WR, but with such a deep class and a top-4 of Diggs (do it all #1), Brown (slotted into perfect outside #2 role) Beasley (great spot #3 option) and McKenzie (solid Gadget player). Adding a guy in the 4th or 5th round who can turn McKenzie into an afterthought and put one of Foster/Williams on the chopping block is a pretty realistic possibility. I don’t think they need to use 54 or 86 to do that. 128, or a slight move up from there should net them a solid WR in this years class. 
 

I agree on corner to an extent, but it looks like they’re bringing in the veterans to challenge Wallace. Norman & Gaines are veteran players who have probably lost a step but will be put in a position where they don’t need to be the greatest athletes. And don’t forget, this defense was top-5 in the league and Wallace played about 70% of the snaps. Not saying he’s great, because he has his warts, but I believe they’ll add someone deeper as well.

 

Looking at edge I just don’t really see the room to add an early pick. They’ve got Hughes and Addison as starters. Murphy, Jefferson (hell play all over the defensive front I believe), plus Daryl Johnson, who we might not be very high on but got snaps on defense along with playing all 4-phases of special teams. He’s an athlete who they might think just need proper development. I see the need for it long term, but I believe they’ll wait a year to address it in the draft. 
 

I don’t see a huge need at safety, but they do usually keep 5. Jaquan Johnson is interesting but might be only depth. Marlowe is a great team guy and all, but is also just depth. Dugger/Chinn would immediately allow for some different schemes out of the back of the defensive formation, in particular DB blitzes. 
 

Also our LB depth is pretty slim. Behind Milano/Edmunds/Klein we have Corey Thompson, who I wouldn’t want to see start. Matakevich, who’s a special teamer, and Vosean Joseph, who was on IR all of last season after being injured in pre-season. 
 

I think a backup RB is our #1 need. 
Depth at Linebacker, Corner, Safety and Edge is all after that in whichever order you prefer. I think it also comes down to the talent at each level, I wouldn’t imagine we’ll be near guys like Epenesa or Gross-Matos, and I just don’t really like many of the edge players after that. 

 

 

 

Jerry Hughes will be 32 when the season starts. If you can start developing a guy to take over, this year would be an excellent time to do it.

 

https://socalledfantasyexperts.com/aging-curve-nfl-defensive-players-dl-lb-db/

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1683775-when-does-age-catch-up-to-nfl-players

 

I respectfully disagree that backup RB is our #1 need. I think if it came down to Yeldon as our #2, Beane and McDermott wouldn't have a big issue. Not that they won't pick up an RB, it seems very likely but it's not as big a need as people make it out to be. Further, the draft isn't for filling needs in the current year. That's FA's role. The draft is where you try to get your core players, particularly past the first round and on a roster stocked like this one. That's their draft philosophy and it makes sense. Having said that, my guess is that they'll bring in another RB either in FA or later in the draft.

 

IMO they've done a brilliant job in FA and with the trade of putting themselves in a position where they don't have any needs even approaching desperation. They've tried to do that every year and this year the roster is really filling in nicely. They've given themselves the luxury of going BPA, which is precisely their goal. And yeah, it's a slightly modified BPA. They're not going QB in the 2nd even if one is the BPA. Probably one or two other positions even beyond the painfully obvious of punter, kicker and LS. Guard, maybe? Center? And thirdly you have to consider the positional values. This year is a terrific year for WRs and RBs. You can get one of those in the fifth round that you'd ordinarily have to pick in the 2nd or 3rd. So you can wait a bit on those and still get great value and that has to be factored in.

 

Overall, though, Beane is in position to go BPA, with positional needs not forcing him to reach. In fact, positional surpluses this year can allow you to fall back for value. And value is a good thing.

[YoloinOhio]

Duggar is redundant to siran Neal and I don’t think Duggar has shown he could step into that big nickel role. He might be able to but it would be a projection based on what he did in college. He’s an athlete but don’t see an immediate defensive contributor there 

Edited April 2, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[ROCBillsBeliever]

13 hours ago, BigBuff423 said:

Remember when a WR had to play CB last year?

 

Yes. Yes, I do remember exactly when McKenzie had to play CB last year. It was when Tre White was inactive, and Levi Wallace got injured. If you believe that Tre White will be inactive--outside of injury or resting because we have the AFCE tied up with a bow--then I, good sir, believe that you are a ninny.

 

Current CB depth: Tre White, Levi Wallace, Josh Norman, Taron Johnson, Siran Neal, Cam Lewis. 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by ROCBillsBeliever

[Paul Costa]

22 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Dugger no thanks.. Chin absolutely all day

This ?

[BigBuff423]

10 hours ago, ROCBillsBeliever said:

 

Yes. Yes, I do remember exactly when McKenzie had to play CB last year. It was when Tre White was inactive, and Levi Wallace got injured. If you believe that Tre White will be inactive--outside of injury or resting because we have the AFCE tied up with a bow--then I, good sir, believe that you are a ninny.

 

Current CB depth: Tre White, Levi Wallace, Josh Norman, Taron Johnson, Siran Neal, Cam Lewis. 

 

 

 

First, name-calling is a lot like some Kindergarten playground garbage, don't go there....be better.

 

Second, the fact that you mention Cam Lewis as quality depth begs the question if you're grasping for straws. The point being that Tre being active isn't the point, the fact that as soon as our best CB was inactive and the next man up, who isn't nearly as good went down, it was time for a WR to play out of position. If that *doesn't* make you think that added depth / talent isn't worth a 2nd to 4th Round pick, then I don't think you have your priorities straight when considering the totality of this roster.

 

CB is not a "need", but when all of the team "needs" are finished via FA, I would think, a person would start to say, where is the second layer of talent that can be improved? IMHO (ninny or not) is in CB when this Defense relies so heavily on zone coverage in order to generate their game plan on Defense. Wallace is good, don't know if he'll grow into great, but he's good right now. Tre is well....Tre and T. Johnson is a solid Nickel CB in the right package. But RB behind Motor and CB,  IMO, are two areas that should be addressed in their first three picks this year now that they've used a 1st on a true WR1. Edge, if BPA fits, would be another and of course in this Draft, you don't leave without a good WR. RB and WR should be a no brainer based on the depth of those positions and that the Bills can select both of those positions anywhere from 2nd to 4th Rounds and get very good players. The question becomes, where does CB / Edge fit in the Draft and that's a debate for a different thread.

[ROCBillsBeliever]

5 hours ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

First, name-calling is a lot like some Kindergarten playground garbage, don't go there....be better.

 

Second, the fact that you mention Cam Lewis as quality depth begs the question if you're grasping for straws. The point being that Tre being active isn't the point, the fact that as soon as our best CB was inactive and the next man up, who isn't nearly as good went down, it was time for a WR to play out of position. If that *doesn't* make you think that added depth / talent isn't worth a 2nd to 4th Round pick, then I don't think you have your priorities straight when considering the totality of this roster.

 

CB is not a "need", but when all of the team "needs" are finished via FA, I would think, a person would start to say, where is the second layer of talent that can be improved? IMHO (ninny or not) is in CB when this Defense relies so heavily on zone coverage in order to generate their game plan on Defense. Wallace is good, don't know if he'll grow into great, but he's good right now. Tre is well....Tre and T. Johnson is a solid Nickel CB in the right package. But RB behind Motor and CB,  IMO, are two areas that should be addressed in their first three picks this year now that they've used a 1st on a true WR1. Edge, if BPA fits, would be another and of course in this Draft, you don't leave without a good WR. RB and WR should be a no brainer based on the depth of those positions and that the Bills can select both of those positions anywhere from 2nd to 4th Rounds and get very good players. The question becomes, where does CB / Edge fit in the Draft and that's a debate for a different thread.

 

Well, yeah, and I said "ninny" as tongue-in-cheek. My point is that I've seen a lot of posts on here, bemoaning the fact that we had to play a WR as a CB, but the posters neglect the specific context of that particular game, who was inactive, and who was available. That was my point. 

 

Also, I totally agree with you about CB depth, and the need to restock in this draft. Bryce Hall is in my crosshairs as a CB I definitely want in the 2nd or 3rd. Not disagreeing with you on that. I just hate that people hold up the Jets game as an indicator, while white-washing all the context out of their argument. I don't disagree with your point; I disagree with the white-washing.