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Why I believe Jordan Phillips wasn't retained

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I’m guessing money was the major reason but what do I know. 

23 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I hated the PED Murphy contract from day 1. And I think Beane screwed up not using the 5th year guarantee.  Lawson has outplayed Murphy and if I had to choose between the two I cut Murphy and try to bring Lawson back. But Lawson was never coming back was my guess. I was not articulate in my post. I think the guys Beane signed will be able to replace Lawson and Phillips reasonably well. 

I can’t fully hate on not extending Shaq because he really hadn’t prove anything.  But I don’t care. Murphy sucks.  I wish we could have never signed him and kept Shaq, an ascending player.  Oh well.  Besides Star and Murphy, I can’t question their defensive acquisitions.

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12 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I hated the PED Murphy contract from day 1. And I think Beane screwed up not using the 5th year guarantee.  Lawson has outplayed Murphy and if I had to choose between the two I cut Murphy and try to bring Lawson back. But Lawson was never coming back was my guess. I was not articulate in my post. I think the guys Beane signed will be able to replace Lawson and Phillips reasonably well. 


 

I get that you hate Murphy, but I do not understand the Lawson versus Shaq.  First the 5th year option would have been 10 million plus for Shaq - a good size overpay for just the one year - plus that would have set his baseline meaning if they wanted to sign him further - you are looking at 12+ million going forward.  The Bills saw him as about an 6/8 million dollar max guy before last year - so the 5th year option was already an overpay.

 

2nd - Shaq produced next to nothing when platooning with Murphy because he was not as good on the left side of the line.  He was not quick enough to beat the RT and lacked strength and leverage to hold up.  He was significantly better platooning with Hughes the last 2 years on the Right side - he did not get pressure against LTs, but strength wise - he seemed to hold up better.  Based on what they did - Shaq and Murphy where not really equal the last 2 years - they essentially played different positions with very different responsibilities and if you replaced Murphy with Shaq - I think it would be a pretty big downgrade.

 

I like what they brought in as replacements and like the price tags even more.  I think in the short term they are just as good for less money and hungrier players.  Shaq to me is a good role player and edge contain, but provides nothing in pass rush.  Phillips provided a nice push a few times a game, but was never consistent enough or stout enough even with his size and both guys had 2nd tier price tags from the Bills.  I won’t say Murphy is any better because he has flaws to, but I would not get rid of him unless you have an improvement.  Right now there is no improvement - so Murphy should be here until they see where everything shakes out.

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22 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

I don’t know this for a fact, but I can surmise from their offseason that they felt missed tackles were a problem in 2019.

 

Phillips missed 11 tackles last year; that’s an absurd amount for a guy that played 543 snaps. For comparison’s sake, everyone’s favorite whipping boy—Star Lotuleilei—missed 3 tackles in 482 snaps.

 

The guy that will most likely replace Jordan, Vernon Butler, missed only 2 tackles in 440 snaps in 2019.

 

 

I do not like those stats unless you factor in other stats.  It’s like errors in baseball. You got to a ball 95% of the rest  of the league wouldn’t have gotten to yet you get an error.

 

what is actually defined as a missed tackle...you being in the wrong place vs assignment?  You just getting one arm on him vs two?

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40 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:


 

I get that you hate Murphy, but I do not understand the Lawson versus Shaq.  First the 5th year option would have been 10 million plus for Shaq - a good size overpay for just the one year - plus that would have set his baseline meaning if they wanted to sign him further - you are looking at 12+ million going forward.  The Bills saw him as about an 6/8 million dollar max guy before last year - so the 5th year option was already an overpay.

 

2nd - Shaq produced next to nothing when platooning with Murphy because he was not as good on the left side of the line.  He was not quick enough to beat the RT and lacked strength and leverage to hold up.  He was significantly better platooning with Hughes the last 2 years on the Right side - he did not get pressure against LTs, but strength wise - he seemed to hold up better.  Based on what they did - Shaq and Murphy where not really equal the last 2 years - they essentially played different positions with very different responsibilities and if you replaced Murphy with Shaq - I think it would be a pretty big downgrade.

 

I like what they brought in as replacements and like the price tags even more.  I think in the short term they are just as good for less money and hungrier players.  Shaq to me is a good role player and edge contain, but provides nothing in pass rush.  Phillips provided a nice push a few times a game, but was never consistent enough or stout enough even with his size and both guys had 2nd tier price tags from the Bills.  I won’t say Murphy is any better because he has flaws to, but I would not get rid of him unless you have an improvement.  Right now there is no improvement - so Murphy should be here until they see where everything shakes out.

I only disagree with your assessment of Lawson on the right vs the left. I think he outplayed Murphy and by year's end Lawson was starting opposite Hughes.

The fifth year option and the tags are not about the money. It is about controlling the situation and not losing a bunch of guys and retooling through the draft. They had enough cap space to overspend last year and this year. Also flying in the face of what Beane says about drafting well and retiring your own guys. But its water under the bridge. Beane rolled the dice and he found replacements that in some cases may be upgraded for Lawson, Phillips, and Zo.  Kudos to him. 

Now I would argue they still need two edge players in this draft. They are old on the edges.

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This take from Sports Illustrated had me rolling on the floor.    It just goes to show how few national guys pay attention to the Bills...

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/03/28/nfl-draft-team-needs-all-32-teams

 

"...GM Brandon Beane and head coach Sean McDermott can shift their focus to their defense, which last season played like the single best-coached unit in football. That unit, however, lost arguably its best defensive lineman (certainly best interior lineman, at least) when free agent defensive tackle Jordan Phillips signed with Arizona."  :death:

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On 3/29/2020 at 5:21 PM, Azucho98 said:

ED OLIVER.  Its as simple as that.

 

then they wouldn't have signed Vernon Butler.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Lurker said:

This take from Sports Illustrated had me rolling on the floor.    It just goes to show how few national guys pay attention to the Bills...

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/03/28/nfl-draft-team-needs-all-32-teams

 

"...GM Brandon Beane and head coach Sean McDermott can shift their focus to their defense, which last season played like the single best-coached unit in football. That unit, however, lost arguably its best defensive lineman (certainly best interior lineman, at least) when free agent defensive tackle Jordan Phillips signed with Arizona."  :death:

I mean, hard to debate with “arguably best defensive lineman.” You could argue Oliver was better but not more productive. 

 

Phillips was #1 in sacks, 2nd in QB hits, tied for first in TFL, and #1 in solo tackles on our DL last year. I was encouraged by Oliver’s play last year, but JP stuffed the stat sheet last year. There’s a reason he went from a prove it deal to $10M AAV.

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2 hours ago, FireChans said:

I mean, hard to debate with “arguably best defensive lineman.” You could argue Oliver was better but not more productive. 

 

Phillips was #1 in sacks, 2nd in QB hits, tied for first in TFL, and #1 in solo tackles on our DL last year. I was encouraged by Oliver’s play last year, but JP stuffed the stat sheet last year. There’s a reason he went from a prove it deal to $10M AAV.

 

He was nowhere near the most productive or "best" DL last year.    Anybody who says so should make a cash offer for the Brooklyn Bridge, ASAP.

 

IMO, Phillips is like so many free agents who underwhelm after getting big contracts.   Stats alone don't tell the story, but time after time, supposed "football people" get locked in on them and think they tell you who the player is...  

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42 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

He was nowhere near the most productive or "best" DL last year.    Anybody who says so should make a cash offer for the Brooklyn Bridge, ASAP.

 

IMO, Phillips is like so many free agents who underwhelm after getting big contracts.   Stats alone don't tell the story, but time after time, supposed "football people" get locked in on them and think they tell you who the player is...  

How was he not the most productive? 

 

I guess you think McBeane are also shopping for Bridges seeing as they offered $8M AAV for an future “underwhelming” player.

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1 minute ago, FireChans said:

How was he not the most productive? 

 

I guess you think McBeane are also shopping for Bridges seeing as they offered $8M AAV for an future “underwhelming” player.

50 beautiful photos of the Brooklyn Bridge

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55 minutes ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

He and Shaq were mocking the Cowboys after the game too. Have to wonder if stuff like that didnt sit well with mgmt. 

 

Nah. Jordan Poyer is among the biggest sassers in the game when the Bills win. He waves goodbye to fans and will often taunt the opposing sideline. And he just got a new contract.

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19 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I hated the PED Murphy contract from day 1. And I think Beane screwed up not using the 5th year guarantee.  Lawson has outplayed Murphy and if I had to choose between the two I cut Murphy and try to bring Lawson back. But Lawson was never coming back was my guess. I was not articulate in my post. I think the guys Beane signed will be able to replace Lawson and Phillips reasonably well. 

I see your view, but the Ped thing makes me chuckle, being their use is rampant throughout the league. 
 

Go Bills!!!

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4 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Nah. Jordan Poyer is among the biggest sassers in the game when the Bills win. He waves goodbye to fans and will often taunt the opposing sideline. And he just got a new contract.

Right on. Quarantine has my brain doing weird stuff bro. 

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5 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

He was nowhere near the most productive or "best" DL last year.    Anybody who says so should make a cash offer for the Brooklyn Bridge, ASAP.

 

IMO, Phillips is like so many free agents who underwhelm after getting big contracts.   Stats alone don't tell the story, but time after time, supposed "football people" get locked in on them and think they tell you who the player is...  

Exactly correct. He was arguably one of the least productive members of the DL due to both his physical limitations and willingness to buy into the scheme.

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5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Exactly correct. He was arguably one of the least productive members of the DL due to both his physical limitations and willingness to buy into the scheme.

Why did McBeane offer him $8M a season then?

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9 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Why did McBeane offer him $8M a season then?

Because that's what they value that spot at DT

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10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Because that's what they value that spot at DT

Yeah but I mean this dude didn’t buy in, had bad gap integrity and was the least productive guy on the DL. How’d he get offered the same money as Shaq? Why offer him any money at all?

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1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Yeah but I mean this dude didn’t buy in, had bad gap integrity and was the least productive guy on the DL. How’d he get offered the same money as Shaq? Why offer him any money at all?

It was pretty apparent they were going to let him sign elsewhere without matching but you don't just not make an offer to a guy coming off a productive year for your team, that's a bad look

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