Internally there’s some love for Tee Higgins

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The element of Hopkins game that is elite more than anything else is his body positioning. His ability to get his body into a position where it makes it exceptionally hard for the defender to make a play without drawing a flag is incredible. Higgins isn't at that level yet but he has some similar qualities in that regard.

Totally agree, which is why I said he is smooth.  He’s excellent route runner and using body position rather than physicality.  
 

Higgins reminds me of Hopkins and think that’s who he best compares to at the next level in terms of type/style of play.  Of course doesn’t mean he will be as good as Hopkins, just saying when people look for a top NFL comparison, it’s who he reminds me of.  
 

Honestly do not understand the hate for Higgins.  Truthfully, of all the guys expected to go in first 2 rounds, there isn’t a WR the Bills could take in that range where I’d be upset.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

exactly. if people think higgins is going to be the best guy there whenever they pick then fine. I am sick of the jump ball, contested catch talk, as if that’s sustainable. How about just continue to get fast guys that can run great routes or even not-so-fast-but-smart guys that know how to get open? Sort of like the guys they’ve already brought in?

Personally I don’t want Josh Allen of all people throwing into tight coverage; I don’t care if he’s throwing to a 7 foot tall tee higgins. I don’t have that kind of trust in him yet.

 

I don't think Higgins will be the best guy there at #22. But he is likely to be the best receiver there in my view. It is why I favour a trade up if one of the top 3 falls into that 15 or 16 range and wouldn't hate a small trade back from #22 if that is not possible and they are determined to go receiver at that pick. I equally won't be an angry table pounder if they stay at #22 and take a defensive player if that guy is in the BPA discussion. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think Higgins will be the best guy there at #22. But he is likely to be the best receiver there in my view. It is why I favour a trade up if one of the top 3 falls into that 15 or 16 range and wouldn't hate a small trade back from #22 if that is not possible and they are determined to go receiver at that pick. I equally won't be an angry table pounder if they stay at #22 and take a defensive player if that guy is in the BPA discussion. 

 

 

...GB, is there any validity to the original thread about him choosing not to participate because "he was tired"?......if so, why when he is faced with being on the biggest financial stage in his life?.....

[JoPoy88]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think Higgins will be the best guy there at #22. But he is likely to be the best receiver there in my view. It is why I favour a trade up if one of the top 3 falls into that 15 or 16 range and wouldn't hate a small trade back from #22 if that is not possible and they are determined to go receiver at that pick. I equally won't be an angry table pounder if they stay at #22 and take a defensive player if that guy is in the BPA discussion. 

yes if jeudy and ruggs are gone (most likely) and they dont want to take an edge or OT there at 22 i’d much rather trade back and get another pick and reagor or mims (or even higgins! if they trade way back) as opposed to taking higgins flat at 22. 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...GB, is there any validity to the original thread about him choosing not to participate because "he was tired"?......if so, why when he is faced with being on the biggest financial stage in his life?.....

 

I don't have any concerns about him not running at the combine. 

[noacls]

Higgins stats per game when quality of player picks up in playoffs:

 

4 games

3.5 catches per game

55.65 yards per game

.5 TD per game

 

Yeah production, those stats scream stud. 

[JoPoy88]

2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...GB, is there any validity to the original thread about him choosing not to participate because "he was tired"?......if so, why when he is faced with being on the biggest financial stage in his life?.....

Not answering for Gunner, just want to throw in that I also heard he didn’t do the combine because of “the long clemson season.” Sounds like tired to me.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't have any concerns about him not running at the combine. 

 

...but the "tired" alleged quote sure as hell generated plenty of "no thanks...he's soft" responses here.......

4 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

Not answering for Gunner, just want to throw in that I also heard he didn’t do the combine because of “the long clemson season.” Sounds like tired to me.

 

 

....if, IF so, that's a Plexico Burris "shoot yourself in the foot" gem when on the potential stage to earn MILLIONS............

[YoloinOhio]

28 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Hopkins is not physical.  He’s smooth.  Thomas has definitely got some physical aspects of his game.  
 

But Higgins is great at high pointing himself.  He’s made a lot of contested catches.  
 

All I’m saying is that people can criticize whatever they want about him, but it’s factually incorrect to say he’s not fast enough for the NFL.  

Thomas became much more physical in the nfl than he was in college. Guess who?

 

Weaknesses

Struggles with footwork out of press release spending excessive time trying to fake and shake cornerbacks. Still figuring out this whole "route running" thing. Needs to improve playing through contact and adjusting routes appropriately. Still thinking rather than just playing. Will have to work back to the throw more often on NFL level. Won't win over quarterbacks with inability to rescue the off-­target throws. Plays with passive field demeanor against aggressive cornerbacks. Won't go looking for work as run blocker if he doesn't have to. Doesn't appear to offer special teams value.

13 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...GB, is there any validity to the original thread about him choosing not to participate because "he was tired"?......if so, why when he is faced with being on the biggest financial stage in his life?.....

Maybe that wasn’t his priority.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

13 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Thomas became much more physical in the nfl than he was in college. Guess who?

 

Weaknesses

Struggles with footwork out of press release spending excessive time trying to fake and shake cornerbacks. Still figuring out this whole "route running" thing. Needs to improve playing through contact and adjusting routes appropriately. Still thinking rather than just playing. Will have to work back to the throw more often on NFL level. Won't win over quarterbacks with inability to rescue the off-­target throws. Plays with passive field demeanor against aggressive cornerbacks. Won't go looking for work as run blocker if he doesn't have to. Doesn't appear to offer special teams value.

Maybe that wasn’t his priority.

 

 

....good point bud....money "isn't the ONLY thing".............

[Alphadawg7]

34 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think Higgins will be the best guy there at #22. But he is likely to be the best receiver there in my view. It is why I favour a trade up if one of the top 3 falls into that 15 or 16 range and wouldn't hate a small trade back from #22 if that is not possible and they are determined to go receiver at that pick. I equally won't be an angry table pounder if they stay at #22 and take a defensive player if that guy is in the BPA discussion. 

This is my exact stance too.  I think Beane is hitting phones hard if Lamb of Juedy hits Falcons pick.  And in a copy cat league where Tyreek Hill is an elite player on current SB winning team, I think it’s quite possible Ruggs is one of the first 2 WRs taken.  And if so there is a reasonable possibility that one of Lamb or Juedy could reach Falcons pick at 16 in that case.

 

I can’t see all 3 top 3 WRs coming off the board in first 15 picks.  It’s possible, but I don’t think very likely as I expect some of the tackles and over reaching on QBs to help push at least one to 16.  
 

But even so, I would expect some competition for that pick or one in that range to go get the WR still there.  Like Eagles for instance.  

[DCOrange]

1 hour ago, noacls said:

The 4.56 or the fake 4.43 that was reported

The 4.54 was the official time according to Clemson which places him like 6th in this draft class in terms of speed score. 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

This is my exact stance too.  I think Beane is hitting phones hard if Lamb of Juedy hits Falcons pick.  And in a copy cat league where Tyreek Hill is an elite player on current SB winning team, I think it’s quite possible Ruggs is one of the first 2 WRs taken.  And if so there is a reasonable possibility that one of Lamb or Juedy could reach Falcons pick at 16 in that case.

 

I can’t see all 3 top 3 WRs coming off the board in first 15 picks.  It’s possible, but I don’t think very likely as I expect some of the tackles and over reaching on QBs to help push at least one to 16.  
 

But even so, I would expect some competition for that pick or one in that range to go get the WR still there.  Like Eagles for instance.  

 

I fear that all 3 will be gone by the Falcons. I think 3 QBs, 4 OTs, 3 WRs, 2 DTs, 1 EDGE, 1 Linebacker and 1 corner is my prediction for the first 15 picks. If one of those falls I think it will either be one of the DTs or one of the OTs. 

[Mat68]

Im not a fan of Higgins.  Im not a scout though.  Height, weight, speed there are better prospects imo.  Route running there are better prospects.  In terms of production there are more prolific wrs.  I dont see him as a day 1 player, but him paired with another wr isnt a bad idea.

[Lurker]

32 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

The 4.54 was the official time according to Clemson which places him like 6th in this draft class in terms of speed score. 

 

Sixth?

 

Rk	Year	Player	Pos	Age	AV	School	College	Height	Wt	40YD ▲	Vertical	BenchReps	Broad Jump	3Cone	Shuttle	Drafted (tm/rnd/yr)
1	2020	Henry Ruggs III	WR			Alabama	College Stats	5-11	188	4.27	42.0		131
2	2020	Quez Watkins	WR			Southern Miss	College Stats	6-0	185	4.35	36.5		125	7.28	4.36
3	2020	Denzel Mims	WR			Baylor	College Stats	6-3	207	4.38	38.5	16	131	6.66	4.43
4	2020	Darnell Mooney	WR			Tulane	College Stats	5-10	176	4.38	37.0	9	124
5	2020	Devin Duvernay	WR			Texas	College Stats	5-10	200	4.39	35.5		123	7.13	4.20
6	2020	Antonio Gibson	WR			Memphis	College Stats	6-0	228	4.39	35.0	16	118
7	2020	Chase Claypool	WR			Notre Dame	College Stats	6-4	238	4.42	40.5	19	126
8	2020	John Hightower	WR			Boise St.	College Stats	6-1	189	4.43	38.5		122	7.07	4.21
9	2020	Justin Jefferson	WR			LSU	College Stats	6-1	202	4.43	37.5		126
10	2020	Isaiah Coulter	WR			Rhode Island		6-2	198	4.45	36.0		121	7.28	4.62
11	2020	Jerry Jeudy	WR			Alabama	College Stats	6-1	193	4.45	35.0		120		4.53
12	2020	Jeff Thomas	WR			Miami	College Stats	5-9	170	4.45	36.5		125
13	2020	Tyrie Cleveland	WR			Florida	College Stats	6-2	209	4.46	39.5	13	126
14	2020	Freddie Swain	WR			Florida	College Stats	6-0	197	4.46	36.5	16	124	7.05	4.26
15	2020	Stephen Guidry	WR			Mississippi St.	College Stats	6-3	201	4.47	34.0		125	7.31	4.46
16	2020	Jalen Reagor	WR			TCU	College Stats	5-11	206	4.47	42.0	17	138	7.31	4.46
17	2020	Joe Reed	WR			Virginia	College Stats	6-0	224	4.47	38.0	21	123
18	2020	K.J. Osborn	WR			Miami	College Stats	5-11	203	4.48	37.5	18	123	7.00	4.35
19	2020	Dezmon Patmon	WR			Washington St.	College Stats	6-4	225	4.48	36.0	15	132	7.28	4.38
20	2020	Donovan Peoples-Jones	WR			Michigan	College Stats	6-2	212	4.48	44.5		139
21	2020	Brandon Aiyuk	WR			Arizona State	College Stats	6-0	205	4.50	40.0	11	128
22	2020	Trishton Jackson	WR			Syracuse	College Stats	6-1	197	4.50	36.0		117
23	2020	CeeDee Lamb	WR			Oklahoma	College Stats	6-2	198	4.50	34.5	11	124
24	2020	Kendrick Rogers	WR			Texas A&M	College Stats	6-4	208	4.51	35.5	17	124	7.13	4.48
25	2020	Michael Pittman	WR			USC	College Stats	6-4	223	4.52	36.5	13	121	6.96	4.14
26	2020	Gabriel Davis	WR			UCF	College Stats	6-2	216	4.54	35.0	14	124	7.08	4.59
27	2020	Quartney Davis	WR			Texas A&M	College Stats	6-1	201	4.54	35.5
28	2020	Marquez Callaway	WR			Tennessee	College Stats	6-1	205	4.55	38.0		126
29	2020	Aaron Parker	WR			Rhode Island		6-2	209	4.57	26.5	12	112	6.94	4.23
30	2020	Chris Finke	WR			Notre Dame	College Stats	5-9	186	4.57	40.0	7
31	2020	Kalija Lipscomb	WR			Vanderbilt	College Stats	6-0	207	4.57	32.0	16	127
32	2020	Juwan Johnson	WR			Oregon	College Stats	6-4	230	4.58	33.0	14	124	6.94	4.37
33	2020	Laviska Shenault Jr.	WR			Colorado	College Stats	6-1	227	4.58		17
34	2020	Aaron Fuller	WR			Washington	College Stats	5-11	188	4.59	34.0		118	7.14
35	2020	Austin Mack	WR			Ohio St.	College Stats	6-1	208	4.59	31.5		117		4.42
36	2020	Ben Victor	WR			Ohio St.	College Stats	6-4	198	4.60	35.0	9	128	7.10
37	2020	Antonio Gandy-Golden	WR			Liberty	College Stats	6-4	223	4.60	36.0	22	127	7.33	4.55
38	2020	K.J. Hill	WR			Ohio St.	College Stats	6-0	196	4.60	32.5	17	114
39	2020	Isaiah Hodgins	WR			Oregon St.	College Stats	6-4	210	4.61	36.5	9	124	7.01	4.12
40	2020	Omar Bayless	WR			Arkansas State	College Stats	6-1	212	4.62	36.0	11	123	7.35	4.50
41	2020	Malcolm Perry	WR			Navy	College Stats	5-9	186	4.63	36.0	10	122	7.12	4.31
42	2020	Tony Brown	WR			Colorado	College Stats	6-1	198	4.65	33.5	14	119	7.21	4.27
43	2020	Cody White	WR			Michigan St.	College Stats	6-3	217	4.66	35.5		120	7.19	4.52
44	2020	Jauan Jennings	WR			Tennessee	College Stats	6-3	215	4.72	29.0		119
45	2020	Quintez Cephus	WR			Wisconsin	College Stats	6-1	202	4.73	38.5	23	124	7.20	4.33
46	2020	Lynn Bowden	WR			Kentucky	College Stats	5-11	204			13
47	2020	Lawrence Cager	WR			Georgia	College Stats	6-5	220
48	2020	Bryan Edwards	WR			South Carolina	College Stats	6-3	212
49	2020	KJ Hamler	WR			Penn St.	College Stats	5-9	178			15
50	2020	Tee Higgins	WR			Clemson	College Stats	6-4	216
51	2020	Van Jefferson	WR			Florida	College Stats	6-1	200
52	2020	Collin Johnson	WR			Texas	College Stats	6-6	222			17
53	2020	Tyler Johnson	WR			Minnesota	College Stats	6-1	206
54	2020	James Proche	WR			SMU	College Stats	5-11	201		34.5	20		7.27	4.40
55	2020	Darrell Stewart	WR			Michigan St.	College Stats	6-0	212		35.0	15	117

If you utilize material unique to a Sports Reference site for a tweet, an article, or for research for a broadcast or podcast, please

 

[DCOrange]

9 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Sixth?

 

Rk	Year	Player	Pos	Age	AV	School	College	Height	Wt	40YD ▲	Vertical	BenchReps	Broad Jump	3Cone	Shuttle	Drafted (tm/rnd/yr)
1	2020	Henry Ruggs III	WR			Alabama	College Stats	5-11	188	4.27	42.0		131
2	2020	Quez Watkins	WR			Southern Miss	College Stats	6-0	185	4.35	36.5		125	7.28	4.36
3	2020	Denzel Mims	WR			Baylor	College Stats	6-3	207	4.38	38.5	16	131	6.66	4.43
4	2020	Darnell Mooney	WR			Tulane	College Stats	5-10	176	4.38	37.0	9	124
5	2020	Devin Duvernay	WR			Texas	College Stats	5-10	200	4.39	35.5		123	7.13	4.20
6	2020	Antonio Gibson	WR			Memphis	College Stats	6-0	228	4.39	35.0	16	118
7	2020	Chase Claypool	WR			Notre Dame	College Stats	6-4	238	4.42	40.5	19	126
8	2020	John Hightower	WR			Boise St.	College Stats	6-1	189	4.43	38.5		122	7.07	4.21
9	2020	Justin Jefferson	WR			LSU	College Stats	6-1	202	4.43	37.5		126
10	2020	Isaiah Coulter	WR			Rhode Island		6-2	198	4.45	36.0		121	7.28	4.62
11	2020	Jerry Jeudy	WR			Alabama	College Stats	6-1	193	4.45	35.0		120		4.53
12	2020	Jeff Thomas	WR			Miami	College Stats	5-9	170	4.45	36.5		125
13	2020	Tyrie Cleveland	WR			Florida	College Stats	6-2	209	4.46	39.5	13	126
14	2020	Freddie Swain	WR			Florida	College Stats	6-0	197	4.46	36.5	16	124	7.05	4.26
15	2020	Stephen Guidry	WR			Mississippi St.	College Stats	6-3	201	4.47	34.0		125	7.31	4.46
16	2020	Jalen Reagor	WR			TCU	College Stats	5-11	206	4.47	42.0	17	138	7.31	4.46
17	2020	Joe Reed	WR			Virginia	College Stats	6-0	224	4.47	38.0	21	123
18	2020	K.J. Osborn	WR			Miami	College Stats	5-11	203	4.48	37.5	18	123	7.00	4.35
19	2020	Dezmon Patmon	WR			Washington St.	College Stats	6-4	225	4.48	36.0	15	132	7.28	4.38
20	2020	Donovan Peoples-Jones	WR			Michigan	College Stats	6-2	212	4.48	44.5		139
21	2020	Brandon Aiyuk	WR			Arizona State	College Stats	6-0	205	4.50	40.0	11	128
22	2020	Trishton Jackson	WR			Syracuse	College Stats	6-1	197	4.50	36.0		117
23	2020	CeeDee Lamb	WR			Oklahoma	College Stats	6-2	198	4.50	34.5	11	124
24	2020	Kendrick Rogers	WR			Texas A&M	College Stats	6-4	208	4.51	35.5	17	124	7.13	4.48
25	2020	Michael Pittman	WR			USC	College Stats	6-4	223	4.52	36.5	13	121	6.96	4.14
26	2020	Gabriel Davis	WR			UCF	College Stats	6-2	216	4.54	35.0	14	124	7.08	4.59
27	2020	Quartney Davis	WR			Texas A&M	College Stats	6-1	201	4.54	35.5
28	2020	Marquez Callaway	WR			Tennessee	College Stats	6-1	205	4.55	38.0		126
29	2020	Aaron Parker	WR			Rhode Island		6-2	209	4.57	26.5	12	112	6.94	4.23
30	2020	Chris Finke	WR			Notre Dame	College Stats	5-9	186	4.57	40.0	7
31	2020	Kalija Lipscomb	WR			Vanderbilt	College Stats	6-0	207	4.57	32.0	16	127
32	2020	Juwan Johnson	WR			Oregon	College Stats	6-4	230	4.58	33.0	14	124	6.94	4.37
33	2020	Laviska Shenault Jr.	WR			Colorado	College Stats	6-1	227	4.58		17
34	2020	Aaron Fuller	WR			Washington	College Stats	5-11	188	4.59	34.0		118	7.14
35	2020	Austin Mack	WR			Ohio St.	College Stats	6-1	208	4.59	31.5		117		4.42
36	2020	Ben Victor	WR			Ohio St.	College Stats	6-4	198	4.60	35.0	9	128	7.10
37	2020	Antonio Gandy-Golden	WR			Liberty	College Stats	6-4	223	4.60	36.0	22	127	7.33	4.55
38	2020	K.J. Hill	WR			Ohio St.	College Stats	6-0	196	4.60	32.5	17	114
39	2020	Isaiah Hodgins	WR			Oregon St.	College Stats	6-4	210	4.61	36.5	9	124	7.01	4.12
40	2020	Omar Bayless	WR			Arkansas State	College Stats	6-1	212	4.62	36.0	11	123	7.35	4.50
41	2020	Malcolm Perry	WR			Navy	College Stats	5-9	186	4.63	36.0	10	122	7.12	4.31
42	2020	Tony Brown	WR			Colorado	College Stats	6-1	198	4.65	33.5	14	119	7.21	4.27
43	2020	Cody White	WR			Michigan St.	College Stats	6-3	217	4.66	35.5		120	7.19	4.52
44	2020	Jauan Jennings	WR			Tennessee	College Stats	6-3	215	4.72	29.0		119
45	2020	Quintez Cephus	WR			Wisconsin	College Stats	6-1	202	4.73	38.5	23	124	7.20	4.33
46	2020	Lynn Bowden	WR			Kentucky	College Stats	5-11	204			13
47	2020	Lawrence Cager	WR			Georgia	College Stats	6-5	220
48	2020	Bryan Edwards	WR			South Carolina	College Stats	6-3	212
49	2020	KJ Hamler	WR			Penn St.	College Stats	5-9	178			15
50	2020	Tee Higgins	WR			Clemson	College Stats	6-4	216
51	2020	Van Jefferson	WR			Florida	College Stats	6-1	200
52	2020	Collin Johnson	WR			Texas	College Stats	6-6	222			17
53	2020	Tyler Johnson	WR			Minnesota	College Stats	6-1	206
54	2020	James Proche	WR			SMU	College Stats	5-11	201		34.5	20		7.27	4.40
55	2020	Darrell Stewart	WR			Michigan St.	College Stats	6-0	212		35.0	15	117

If you utilize material unique to a Sports Reference site for a tweet, an article, or for research for a broadcast or podcast, please

 

Yes, speed score is adjusted for height and weight. He’s somewhere around a 106 which places him behind Claypool, Mims, Ruggs, Pittman, and Peoples-Jones

[Lurker]

17 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

Yes, speed score is adjusted for height and weight. He’s somewhere around a 106 which places him behind Claypool, Mims, Ruggs, Pittman, and Peoples-Jones

 

Can you post the speed score list?   Asking for a friend...

[Don Otreply]

2 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

exactly. if people think higgins is going to be the best guy there whenever they pick then fine. I am sick of the jump ball, contested catch talk, as if that’s sustainable. How about just continue to get fast guys that can run great routes or even not-so-fast-but-smart guys that know how to get open? Sort of like the guys they’ve already brought in?

Personally I don’t want Josh Allen of all people throwing into tight coverage; I don’t care if he’s throwing to a 7 foot tall tee higgins. I don’t have that kind of trust in him yet.

If you look at Josh and all the receivers highlights there are many passes into tight coverage throughout the season, so I think that is not so much the problem.  You are correct on getting the “right guy”, my attitude is to get the best pass catchers, they usually are proficient at getting open, and are fast enough, otherwise they would not be the best pass catchers..., jmo. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[DCOrange]

40 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Can you post the speed score list?   Asking for a friend...

See the third tab here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EGcKt-3OhHND7shQmY9LREGwBxtnUcFwQtQDz2U-3tk

 

Higgins’ speed score isn’t listed because PlayerProfiler.com (who calculates the speed score) doesn’t use pro day numbers and the formula I’ve found for it isn’t exactly correct, but it’s close enough to know Higgins would be somewhere around a 106 give or take a point.

Edited March 14, 2020 by DCOrange

[Kirby Jackson]

Not sure where to put this but thought it was pretty crazy