K-9 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 While I applaud the courage of the various governors who have issued mandatory shutdowns of all non essential businesses and services, the Chinese and S Korean curves have been seen for weeks now and we have been contemplating these more stringent containment strategies for at least that same length of time. In the future, if we are in the contemplation stage of a plan because we KNOW it’s going to be the best short term containment strategy, then don’t delay; do it immediately and get on with it. This has never been a public relations issue, but we’ve seen leadership all across the country often treating it like it is and they’ve hesitated in taking protective defensive measures as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 20, 2020 Author Share Posted March 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, K-9 said: Agree entirely. Bill Gates and his resources can be used to assist in our efforts for sure, but he has no business being at the helm of this managing this crisis. Neither do a lot of other people. Essentially, it would be like asking Bill Gates to manage the Bills. Could he, given some time, study the situation, assimilate the facts, bring in a team of experts who would give him good (and sometimes conflicting) advice, learn enough to sort it out and put together a good, coherent plan? Probably. But why not just give the job to a smart, experienced guy who already knows football? What is our thing mistrusting professional expertise in this country? We didn't go to the moon by putting Bill Polian in charge of NASA, and we didn't go to the Superbowl by putting NASA head Dr Thomas Paine in charge of the Buffalo Bills. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Essentially, it would be like asking Bill Gates to manage the Bills. Could he, given some time, study the situation, assimilate the facts, bring in a team of experts who would give him good (and sometimes conflicting) advice, learn enough to sort it out and put together a good, coherent plan? Probably. But why not just give the job to a smart, experienced guy who already knows football? What is our thing mistrusting professional expertise in this country? We didn't go to the moon by putting Bill Polian in charge of NASA, and we didn't go to the Superbowl by putting Nasa head Dr Thomas Paine in charge of the Bills. Exactly. Time is of the essence. No time for learning curves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Essentially, it would be like asking Bill Gates to manage the Bills. Could he, given some time, study the situation, assimilate the facts, bring in a team of experts who would give him good (and sometimes conflicting) advice, learn enough to sort it out and put together a good, coherent plan? Probably. But why not just give the job to a smart, experienced guy who already knows football? What is our thing mistrusting professional expertise in this country? We didn't go to the moon by putting Bill Polian in charge of NASA, and we didn't go to the Superbowl by putting Nasa head Dr Thomas Paine in charge of the Bills. ...just curious Hap as to what your exposure as well as colleagues is work wise in your field of endeavor...what are the risks you take and precautions in place?..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 20, 2020 Author Share Posted March 20, 2020 11 minutes ago, K-9 said: While I applaud the courage of the various governors who have issued mandatory shutdowns of all non essential businesses and services, the Chinese and S Korean curves have been seen for weeks now and we have been contemplating these more stringent containment strategies for at least that same length of time. In the future, if we are in the contemplation stage of a plan because we KNOW it’s going to be the best short term containment strategy, then don’t delay; do it immediately and get on with it. This has never been a public relations issue, but we’ve seen leadership all across the country often treating it like it is and they’ve hesitated in taking protective defensive measures as a result. I will repeat: We are a Nation. We need a coherent National strategy. The reason we have Federal Agencies regulating food and drugs and disease control is that we recognize in a nation of open borders between states (necessary for commerce and business growth) we MUST have such national action in the time of a health emergency. Every time it's been left to states and local governments to act - Yellow Fever, Cholera, 1918 flu - it's resulted in disconnected action and more deaths. The CDC and FDA are literally agencies birthed in the blood of past public health problems. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 17 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I will repeat: We are a Nation. We need a coherent National strategy. The reason we have Federal Agencies regulating food and drugs and disease control is that we recognize in a nation of open borders between states (necessary for commerce and business growth) we MUST have such national action in the time of a health emergency. Every time it's been left to states and local governments to act - Yellow Fever, Cholera, 1918 flu - it's resulted in disconnected action and more deaths. The CDC and FDA are literally agencies birthed in the blood of past public health problems. A ***** Men !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 21 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I will repeat: We are a Nation. We need a coherent National strategy. The reason we have Federal Agencies regulating food and drugs and disease control is that we recognize in a nation of open borders between states (necessary for commerce and business growth) we MUST have such national action in the time of a health emergency. Every time it's been left to states and local governments to act - Yellow Fever, Cholera, 1918 flu - it's resulted in disconnected action and more deaths. The CDC and FDA are literally agencies birthed in the blood of past public health problems. Again, I agree entirely. But my only point was if you’re contemplating an optimal plan, then don’t wait. Do it. This way we can avoid thinking we should have done it sooner. The data needed to make the decision has been there for weeks. Pain postponed is pain none the less, and sometimes even more painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundancer Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: NO. Please just stop. People, Bill Gates is a damned smart man. But there are a lot of damned smart epidemiologists in this country. Some of them have worked on containment and control with prior diseases - Smallpox. Ebola. Zika. Dengue. THIS IS NOT THE TIME TO REINVENT THE WHEEL. Find the five most experienced epidemiologists in the country. Look at their resumes. Pick one. Put him or her in charge. Let him or her choose his or her team. The problem is the information gap. Someone like Bill Gates needs to learn, process, and assimilate information as well as the tactical situation before choosing the best path and right decisions, with input from competing sources. Someone who is actually a trained epidemiologist and has previously successfully dealt with contagious disease containment already knows this stuff and just needs to assimilate the tactical situation and the state of development of various potential mitigations. PUT A MEDICAL SCIENTIST IN CHARGE, preferably an experienced epidemiologist. This is a medical emergency. Let competent medical people handle it and give them whatever governmental support or resources they need. The markets will recover when they see a clear end to the shutdowns and disruptions. I don't think you're getting this. Gates brings a level of confidence to the room. He is not the kind of person to say, "I can fix this." He is the person to get the right people in the room and inspire confidence in the American people--something we lack when we see sniping in press conferences and personal vendettas. I don't care to see any of that--it's abhorrent. Give someone like Fauci or Gates the mike and get the rest of them out of the room. 43 minutes ago, K-9 said: Agree entirely. Bill Gates and his resources can be used to assist in our efforts for sure, but he has no business being at the helm of this managing this crisis. Neither do a lot of other people. Bill Gates is the figurehead we need right now. If you think he's the wrong person, I can't imagine what you think about politicians being in charge of these briefings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 20, 2020 Author Share Posted March 20, 2020 Just now, Sundancer said: I don't think you're getting this. Gates brings a level of confidence to the room. He is not the kind of person to say, "I can fix this." He is the person to get the right people in the room and inspire confidence in the American people--something we lack when we see sniping in press conferences and personal vendettas. I don't care to see any of that--it's abhorrent. Give someone like Fauci or Gates the mike and get the rest of them out of the room. I'm not going to debate this here - take it elsewhere - but I will say no, YOU don't "get this". The point is to have someone in charge who actually has deep, expert knowledge and can make meaningful evaluations of sometimes conflicting expert advice. Knowledge and seeing that the situation is in hand and someone in charge is speaking honestly and with clarity will inspire confidence. And that only comes from deep, expert knowledge in these situations. Fauci would be an excellent choice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 ..in retrospect and FWIW, this is our "Modern Day 9-11" but with an invisible attack........political differences were put aside, we came together as a nation in the true USA spirit, and got through one of the gravest periods in this country's history, UNITED......sadly and I'm hoping I am DEAD WRONG, I just do not see the current climate being similarly able to put differences aside and unite......the hatred and vitriol runs deep and sadly the excuse we have for MSM does it best to sew those seeds of hatred, bias, and vitriol.....I trust in the spirit, intelligence and country united TBD clan to put differences aside and support the common cause regardless of political affiliation........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Jax Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, John in Jax said: Went for a 45 min. walk on Jax beach yesterday afternoon. The beach was moderately crowded.....because there’s really nothing else to do.....and we were still EASILY able to stay 10 feet away from any other person. Saw plenty of families/groups of under 10 who were close to each other, and that’s totally their choice. It’s still a free country, last time I checked. LOL 6 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said: This is the dumbest argument being made for not distancing. Yeah, freedom & liberty are dumb alright. ? I'm really not understanding why I'm seeing a lot of hate to this post I made about walking on the beach. EVERYBODY was following the CDC guidelines of groups no larger than 10 and/or staying 6 feet away from each other. Am I not allowed to walk my dog around my neighborhood either!? I mean if I use the sidewalk in my neighborhood, I'm more likely to come close to other people as we pass by than I am at the beach. Edited March 20, 2020 by John in Jax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Sundancer said: I don't think you're getting this. Gates brings a level of confidence to the room. He is not the kind of person to say, "I can fix this." He is the person to get the right people in the room and inspire confidence in the American people--something we lack when we see sniping in press conferences and personal vendettas. I don't care to see any of that--it's abhorrent. Give someone like Fauci or Gates the mike and get the rest of them out of the room. Bill Gates is the figurehead we need right now. If you think he's the wrong person, I can't imagine what you think about politicians being in charge of these briefings! The politicians are the wrong people to be in charge, too. I don’t need another “face” to manage public relations, I need an actual pandemic response team with clear, pre-defined chains of command, strategies, tactics, and logistical apparatus spanning across all relevant agencies staffed by people who know their s**t and who are empowered to act without political constraint. Oh wait... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, John in Jax said: Yeah, freedom & liberty are dumb alright. ? I'm really not understanding why I'm seeing a lot of hate to this post I made about walking on the beach. EVERYBODY was following the CDC guidelines of groups no larger than 10 and/or staying 6 feet away from each other. Am I not allowed to walk my dog around my neighborhood either!? I mean if I use the sidewalk in my neighborhood, I'm more likely to come close to other people as we pass by than I am at the beach. Was it windy while all those groups of less than 10 were out walking? Wind can be a helluva vector for microscopic particles that have been shown to survive in the air for several hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, John in Jax said: Yeah, freedom & liberty are dumb alright. ? I'm really not understanding why I'm seeing a lot of hate to this post I made about walking on the beach. EVERYBODY was following the CDC guidelines of groups no larger than 10 and/or staying 6 feet away from each other. Am I not allowed to walk my dog around my neighborhood either!? I mean if I use the sidewalk in my neighborhood, I'm more likely to come close to other people as we pass by than I am at the beach. That's not freedom and liberty. It's selfish, entitled, narcissistic arrogance. I'm not talking about whatever at the beach. I'm talking about people using this warped idea of "freedom" so they dont have to temporarily change their lives in even the slightest way when it would mean saving lives and saving potentially trillions of dollars. Going out the bars, restaurants, vacations, etc. Then saying "This is America!". Sure is. But if you do want to talk beach, there were plenty of reports the last 2 days from Florida beaches showing Spring Breakers not following guidelines AT ALL. Adults and families, not just college kids. That isnt Liberty. It's sociopathic entitlement. Unfortunately, these folks with no sense of community or empathy end up being the poster children for why that "freedom and liberty" may not be such a good idea anyways. If they can't take personal responsibility in tough times, well then... If you see someone on your walk, just cross the street. Not that hard. No need to be extreme about it. 6 minutes ago, K-9 said: Was it windy while all those groups of less than 10 were out walking? Wind can be a helluva vector for microscopic particles that have been shown to survive in the air for several hours. It's never windy at the beach! We call that "Freedom Air" Edited March 20, 2020 by DrDawkinstein 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: That's not freedom and liberty. It's selfish, entitled, narcissistic arrogance. I'm not talking about whatever at the beach. I'm talking about people using this warped idea of "freedom" so they dont have to temporarily change their lives in even the slightest way when it would mean saving lives and saving potentially trillions of dollars. Going out the bars, restaurants, vacations, etc. Then saying "This is America!". Sure is. But if you do want to talk beach, there were plenty of reports the last 2 days from Florida beaches showing Spring Breakers not following guidelines AT ALL. Adults and families, not just college kids. That isnt Liberty. It's sociopathic entitlement. Unfortunately, these folks with no sense of community or empathy end up being the poster children for why that "freedom and liberty" may not be such a good idea anyways. If they can't take personal responsibility in tough times, well then... If you see someone on your walk, just cross the street. Not that hard. No need to be extreme about it. It's never windy at the beach! We call that "Freedom Air" I like to eat my freedom fries while taking in some of that freedom air! Seriously though, you make a great point about personal responsibility. I’d say a free society DEPENDS on personal responsibility. It’s the lynch pin. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 Just a reminder that it’s not just about the inconvenience social distancing may cause to us personally. It’s about the much bigger sacrifices other are already making and will continue to make. This is just 1 example (of thousands): 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 Who gets treatment if needs outweigh supply? https://qz.com/1821843/ethicists-agree-on-who-should-get-treated-first-for-coronavirus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Cripple Creek said: Who gets treatment if needs outweigh supply? https://qz.com/1821843/ethicists-agree-on-who-should-get-treated-first-for-coronavirus We've already answered that question: the wealthy. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said: Who gets treatment if needs outweigh supply? https://qz.com/1821843/ethicists-agree-on-who-should-get-treated-first-for-coronavirus That’s what doctors are facing in Italy. They are having to choose which patients to treat and which to let die. It appears resources are going to those patients that they think have the best chance of being saved. Imagine the trauma/PTSD that is going to cause for those poor doctors and nurses. I can’t even imagine. PSA: If you’re mad about staying in, or bars being closed, think about what the people on the front lines of this are dealing with. (Just FYI this is not directed at you or anyone else here cripple creek) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: That’s what doctors are facing in Italy. They are having to choose which patients to treat and which to let die. It appears resources are going to those patients that they think have the best chance of being saved. Imagine the trauma/PTSD that is going to cause for those poor doctors and nurses. I can’t even imagine. PSA: If you’re mad about staying in, or bars being closed, think about what the people on the front lines of this are dealing with. (Just FYI this is not directed at you or anyone else here cripple creek) Yup. 100,000 ICU beds here in the states & somewhere around 200,000 ventilators (according to these guys https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200318/us-may-not-have-enough-ventilators-for-covid19 ). 20 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: We've already answered that question: the wealthy. Of course, then those most likely to survive. I better stay home, I'm screwed on all fronts. Edited March 20, 2020 by Cripple Creek 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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