The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

58 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

yes, improved outcomes like hospitalization and death...unimportant.  Science works on cures/treatments for rare diseases.  Should we stop cuz it only might result in improved outcomes for a few.  More than a few still are dying from covid.  you can't fix stupid.  maybe someday we'll find a cure and everyone will be better off.

We didn’t get science.  We got an exceptionally strange brew of political malfeasance and locks downs for some, but not all….especially and notably the political class.   That was layered with a heavy, heavy dose of citizens hysterically screaming at others about their choice to forgo the vax. 
 

I had a series of conversations with a poster professed to be a man of science, and he certainly seemed to be.  At one point, he waxed philosophically about removing children from their parents, and at another sequestering the unvaxxed on an island with exposure to other virus/disease.   
 

At the same time, when asked about protestors lining the streets during the height of the pandemic, he acknowledged (ultimately as a result of my pestering, as I recall) that such activities would lead to death…but absent was the rage that promoted such talk about removing children and placing people on islands.  
 

In a nutshell, that was the biggest takeaway for me during the pandemic—-the overlay of science, anxiety, rage, emotion and ultimately politics. 
 

Looking back, some of the people who were demonized were on the right side of virus management at least from their personal perspective.  Many of our politicians were on the wrong side and should be ashamed by their actions.  Some of the leaders of the scientific community were impotent and weak.

 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

44 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

A feather in your cap. Theirs? 🤔

it was very enjoyable.  it was community based teaching and yes, both the students and the admin liked me.  Then corporate med took over my area and decided to affiliate with a much lower quality med school due to financial considerations.  They don't really like outspoken, independent thinkers and UVA has plenty as do most top schools.  Still occasionally hear from ex students.

35 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

We didn’t get science.  We got an exceptionally strange brew of political malfeasance and locks downs for some, but not all….especially and notably the political class.   That was layered with a heavy, heavy dose of citizens hysterically screaming at others about their choice to forgo the vax. 
 

I had a series of conversations with a poster professed to be a man of science, and he certainly seemed to be.  At one point, he waxed philosophically about removing children from their parents, and at another sequestering the unvaxxed on an island with exposure to other virus/disease.   
 

At the same time, when asked about protestors lining the streets during the height of the pandemic, he acknowledged (ultimately as a result of my pestering, as I recall) that such activities would lead to death…but absent was the rage that promoted such talk about removing children and placing people on islands.  
 

In a nutshell, that was the biggest takeaway for me during the pandemic—-the overlay of science, anxiety, rage, emotion and ultimately politics. 
 

Looking back, some of the people who were demonized were on the right side of virus management at least from their personal perspective.  Many of our politicians were on the wrong side and should be ashamed by their actions.  Some of the leaders of the scientific community were impotent and weak.

 

 

yes, I'm sure if you or NC were running the show, everything would have been just fine.

Edited February 18, 2023 by redtail hawk

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

14 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

it was very enjoyable.  it was community based teaching and yes, both the students and the admin liked me.  Then corporate med took over my area and decided to affiliate with a much lower quality med school due to financial considerations.  They don't really like outspoken, independent thinkers and UVA has plenty as do most top schools.  Still occasionally hear from ex students.

yes, I'm sure if you or NC were running the show, everything would have been just fine.

Red, we don’t grow as a society worshiping false idols and honoring sacred cows.  The next pandemic where we don’t get the opportunity to revisit mistakes made by leadership and science will likely be much more devastating if we don’t address the challenges and silliness of the last one. 
 

As a science guy, you seem unwilling to address the systemic challenges we faced as a nation as it came to messaging, consistency and delivery.  To a certain extent, that makes sense because great technicians don’t always make great leaders.    
 

As for me being in charge, I’m not trained in crisis management on a large scale, though I try to be adaptable and forward-thinking where I can in my life.  I’d suggest I’m moderately successful in that regard, and most importantly to me, I try to take ownership of things that go wrong in my plan.  
 

If your answer is to stomp your feet and pretend everything is fine, all I can say is between you running the show, and me running the show, I’d choose me. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

9 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Red, we don’t grow as a society worshiping false idols and honoring sacred cows.  The next pandemic where we don’t get the opportunity to revisit mistakes made by leadership and science will likely be much more devastating if we don’t address the challenges and silliness of the last one. 
 

As a science guy, you seem unwilling to address the systemic challenges we faced as a nation as it came to messaging, consistency and delivery.  To a certain extent, that makes sense because great technicians don’t always make great leaders.    
 

As for me being in charge, I’m not trained in crisis management on a large scale, though I try to be adaptable and forward-thinking where I can in my life.  I’d suggest I’m moderately successful in that regard, and most importantly to me, I try to take ownership of things that go wrong in my plan.  
 

If your answer is to stomp your feet and pretend everything is fine, all I can say is between you running the show, and me running the show, I’d choose me. 

not sure what false idols and sacred cows you mean.  Money is probably the most common one in the US.  Was the science always where we'd have liked it to be?  Of course not.  Covid was huge challenge to the best and brightest.  But scientists did remarkably well imo.  Shudder to think what the results would have been without them (Oh yeah, I linked a study modelling outcomes without the vax).  the messaging was horrible.  trump put politics above lives and introduced a new pandemic of science doubters. So yeah, it could have been much better.  not aware of any faculty positions for technicians.

[BillsFanNC]

Follow the science.

 

How often did we hear that phrase during the pandemic?

 

As a scientist, when I heard that phrase I knew with 90% certainty that it would be followed by some non-scientist citing a scientist or "expert" in an attempt to shut down any debate, questioning or presentation of other data.

 

This approach is as anti-science as one can be.

 

Science in real practice is about having your results and conclusions constantly scrutinized and questioned by other scientists and perhaps most importantly by yourself.

 

If you go to a scientific conference you'll find scientists presenting data in talks, posters etc. What they present is supposed to be challenged.

 

Did you do x control? Why not?

 

Did you consider using y technique?

 

We looked at the same problem using another model and didn't come to same conclusion. What do you think?

 

And on and on...

 

Yet here we were in the middle of a pandemic when no medical expert or scientist could possibly know exactly what was happening in real time, telling us that they had all the answers. So just shut up and follow the science.

 

Totally ridiculous. 

 

Shutting down debate. You don't get any more anti science than that.

 

@redtail hawk should know better, but he/she/they like so many others have let politics pervert everything he/she/they should have learned about science.

 

 

[BillsFanNC]

Don't hold your breath.  The covid cultists will only continue to double down.

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

                                                 

 

 

 

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[B-Man]

 

[Doc]

It was sad to see how many medical professionals got caught up in politics and were willing to push lies.  I shouldn't have been surprised but I still was.

[Big Blitz]

Look!!!!

 

 

Ukraine!!!!!!!   
 

 

 

 

I’m 1000000% convinced that coordinated distraction was part of the “off ramp” plan.  

[JDHillFan]

 

It’s Rand Paul so it’s automatically awful for the people that imagine themselves on the side of facts and data. My question - are universities in Britain, France, Germany, Norway, Sweden, and Denmark run by stupid and selfish people? Anti-science types perhaps? Red state hillbillies??

[Irv]

Demented Biden and his buddies botched this so bad.  Incompetent.  What a mess.  

[Joe Ferguson forever]

1 hour ago, Irv said:

Demented Biden and his buddies botched this so bad.  Incompetent.  What a mess.  

who was in charge when it hit?  here's a hint:   it's called Covid 19

[Joe Ferguson forever]

12 hours ago, JDHillFan said:

 

It’s Rand Paul so it’s automatically awful for the people that imagine themselves on the side of facts and data. My question - are universities in Britain, France, Germany, Norway, Sweden, and Denmark run by stupid and selfish people? Anti-science types perhaps? Red state hillbillies??

Wow.  So Johns Hopkins, a private, exclusive university is practicing an abundance of caution with regards to Covid.  They have many more applicants than class spots.  No one is forced to matriculate there.  What does any of that have to do with Rand's role as senator.  Now if it was a public university in Kentucky or some other red state, he might have a minor point.  It's not as if the gov't is  forcing Liberty Univ to provide birth control to new students.

Edited February 19, 2023 by redtail hawk

[JDHillFan]

12 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

Wow.  So Johns Hopkins, a private, exclusive university is practicing an abundance of caution with regards to Covid.  They have many more applicants than class spots.  No one is forced to matriculate there.  What does any of that have to do with Rand's role as senator.  Now if it was a public university in Kentucky or some other red state, he might have a minor point.  It's not as if the gov't is  forcing Liberty Univ to provide birth control to new students.

You did everything but answer the question that was asked. Conveniently avoided so as to not get off track. Why?

[Joe Ferguson forever]

6 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

You did everything but answer the question that was asked. Conveniently avoided so as to not get off track. Why?

I have no idea as to Hopkins" thinking but they got them some perdy smart fellers there.  or it just might be, ya know, an abundance of caution?  why is it important to u or Paul?  doesn't the word private mean anything to you?  Maybe you and he can dictate Dartmouth's admissions policies.....

Edited February 19, 2023 by redtail hawk

[JDHillFan]

It’s early and you are old-ish. Let me copy and paste so you can attempt to stay with the conversation. If you read slowly enough you will see that the question is not about JHU even though you’ve twice tried to make it so. Is that how they do it at UVA?

 

My question - are universities in Britain, France, Germany, Norway, Sweden, and Denmark run by stupid and selfish people? Anti-science types perhaps? Red state hillbillies??

[BillsFanNC]

21 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

You did everything but answer the question that was asked. Conveniently avoided so as to not get off track. Why?

 

@redtail hawk deflecting?

 

No friggin way!

[Joe Ferguson forever]

19 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

It’s early and you are old-ish. Let me copy and paste so you can attempt to stay with the conversation. If you read slowly enough you will see that the question is not about JHU even though you’ve twice tried to make it so. Is that how they do it at UVA?

 

My question - are universities in Britain, France, Germany, Norway, Sweden, and Denmark run by stupid and selfish people? Anti-science types perhaps? Red state hillbillies??

Not familiar with the universities in Scandinavia.  I know a woman from Finland - she's pretty cool. Taught art for a while at UB and then a small, private liberal arts school.  Oxbridge is a pretty good place imo.  France and Germany have some good schools.  I believe many are state run and not private.  I doubt any are run by stupid people.  No way to know their level of selfishness but given that many could probably earn more in the private sector, I'd bet they are generally not.  And your point?

Edited February 19, 2023 by redtail hawk

[JDHillFan]

1 minute ago, redtail hawk said:

Not familiar with the universities in Scandinavia.  Perhaps you are?  Oxbridge is a pretty good place imo.  France and Germany have some good schools.  I believe many are state run and not private.  I doubt any are run by stupid people.  No way to know their level of selfishness but given that many could probably earn more in the private sector, I'd bet they are generally not.  And your point?

My point, which has flown right over your head (being an ideologue has its drawbacks), is that you have declared anyone that is vax/booster hesitant to be stupid and selfish. When nations and institutions diverge from your vaccine wishes you play dumb about it. Tiberius-level dumb. In this instance you are trying to turn the conversation into a public vs private school matter. Why be so nakedly disingenuous? If you were consistent at all you would be calling these nations out as you do the awful people that live in red states.