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Browns interview Brian Daboll for HC; have interest in pairing with Bills Asst. GM Joe Schoen

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39 minutes ago, Putin said:

I think his first year ( success he had ) went to his fat head , no one knows just yet who will have a better career him or Josh BUT at least we know that Josh is a hard worker and I’m glad he’s a Buffalo Bill 

Baker Manziel....like we're surprised. 

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42 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So when McDermott said in one of his pressers "some QB think they'll be better their second year just because it's they're second year; Josh Allen works his butt off", was that a little snipe at Baker?

Sure sounds like it 

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1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I am so torn if I want to hear Daboll was offered the job, or if I should be sad if Daboll was offered the job.

I'm not torn, as I'd be ecstatic if he took the Cleveland HCing job! Shoot, as smart as he is he might actually do a good job there as HC, as long as he isn't calling the plays.  

 

What most Bills fans fail to realize is that this QB is NOT a Peyton Manning type who attended a big time college program (Tennessee)and was developed in that program. So throwing him into the NFL fire over and over is exactly what he needed to further develop into greatness. 

 

Allen basically needed to go begging to even get into a college scholarship and only one college in the entire country accepted him. That school was Wyoming and exactly how many big time NFL QBs have come from that college...none! Wanna know how many 1st round picks besides Josh Allen have come from that college since 1947? RB Lawrence Gains in 1976, Detroit, DB Arron Kyle 1976, Dallas. DT Ron Billingsley 1967. Yeah, that's it, three...and no other QB from that big time "Mountain West Conference." Wanna know how many times the Wyoming Cowboys have come in first place since 1999? Never! 

 

Josh Allen was a noted raw, developmental project at QB coming into the NFL, with a heart as big as the Wyoming sky with a burning desire to win. The problem as I see it is that Allen can be ruined by some overzealous OC in his desire to prove that "he" can be great. Over the years I've seen so very many really good college QBs ruined on bad offenses with bad OCs!  Brian Daboll has never been good as an OC in building a good passing offense, ever!  Four different NFL teams in six seasons and never had a better than 22nd passing offense and that was with Matt Moore in Miami.  Daboll has never developed any young, inexperienced QB. Why do people think he will be able to magically do that now?

 

If anything, Josh Allen is making Daboll look half way decent. What Allen needs is a ball control, run first, play action passing offense that will allow him to learn and grow as he develops without getting his confidence destroyed along the way. The Vikings power zone play action scheme under Kevin Stephanski would be a great scheme to develop Josh in.

 

The Buffalo Bills under defensive minded Sean McDermott would appear to be the perfect fit for Allen as the Erhardt-Perkins offensive philosophy is supposed to be a ball control run first with play action scheme. With Daboll as OC that only gets utilized about half the time and in some games he literally goes passing crazy. Having Allen throw 48 times in that Texans game was utterly moronic. Especially considering the Bills had a 16 point lead and should have been pounding the rock with Singletary to control the clock. 

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2 hours ago, MDH said:

 

 

Yeah, these are both good points.

 

The way I see it is this. A lot of OCs in recent times have altered schemes and tailor made the to hide their young QB's faults and accentuate their strengths. This enables the QB to experience success earlier than they normally would. I think this is fan's biggest problem with Daboll, he hasn't done this with Josh.

 

I might be the only one, but I prefer it the way Daboll has done it, at least for this team. We've seen too many times a young QB comes in and the OC protects him and he's pretty good the first few years and then bam, he hits a wall and never develops much further. Particularly with running QBs. Daboll hasn't simplified anything, he makes Josh get to the LoS, look at the D, make the OL adjustments and alter the play and then drop back and run a, mostly, pro style offense from the pocket. Occasionally he'll mix in some running plays for Allen (usually in the red zone) but for the most part he has taken the training wheels off and let Allen sink or swim, like an old school OC used to do with their QBs, which is why it used to take QBs 3-5 years to develop.

 

The Bills knew that their window for the SB wasn't in Allen's first two years, so why not teach the kid how to play honest to goodness QB in the NFL right off the bat. Particularly with a kid that's so raw and hasn't had any real coaching thus far in his QB career. Not only that, he's doing it with a multiple scheme where Allen can't get comfortable with a base set. It changes game to game. I'll admit, it's not the way to win games immediately but it's the best way to prepare your QB for the future. Yet just when that future is about to get here we change OC's? Ugh, that's the last thing I want to do at this point.

 

Go back and look at Allen's Wyoming tape. He was a totally different QB. They have molded this kid these past two years into a reasonable starter and I believe if they stay the course he has a chance to become a good to very good QB. if they change OCs and Allen back slides next year Josh might not get a 4th season in Buffalo, who knows.

 

Again, Daboll isn't perfect and he has his flaws. He sometimes let's the game get away from him and they're a tad conservative in certain situations for my taste. But overall I think he's been a good instructor for Allen and a big reason he's made the strides he has.

 

You are not the only one. It is the way I feel too. I think giving Josh Allen every possible chance to be great is more important than winning a game or two extra. That might be the ultimate long termist view, I know, and I get that. I also do understand those who question the run / pass balance in the 2nd half on Saturday because once you are in the dance you should have a go at trying to win it. But overall over the course of the season I did not want Josh hidden. The run the ball more and play defense crowd might think that helps Josh but I don't believe it does. Have we put a lot on him at times? Yes. But I wouldn't want it any other way. We took the kid 7th overall to be our Quarterback. Let the kid be a Quarterback. I have consistently said I don't want to coach the hero ball out of him  either. In the long term I want a QB who makes the risky plays. I see it on this board so often about other QBs "oh Mahomes / Watson are just throwing 50/50 jump balls." Good. Sometimes I want my QB to try and make that play. And if it gets picked off so be it. Josh could be great. Screw the play it safe, run the ball a million times and play defense strategy. I get that if you expose him there is a chance Josh fails. But you miss every shot you never take in life. No risk it. No biscuit. 

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27 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

If anything, Josh Allen is making Daboll look half way decent. What Allen needs is a ball control, run first, play action passing offense that will allow him to learn and grow as he develops without getting his confidence destroyed along the way. The Vikings power zone play action scheme under Kevin Stephanski would be a great scheme to develop Josh in.

 

What about the thought that it's harder to sell PA or a screen game with a run-threat QB?

 

Quote

The Buffalo Bills under defensive minded Sean McDermott would appear to be the perfect fit for Allen as the Erhardt-Perkins offensive philosophy is supposed to be a ball control run first with play action scheme. With Daboll as OC that only gets utilized about half the time and in some games he literally goes passing crazy. Having Allen throw 48 times in that Texans game was utterly moronic. Especially considering the Bills had a 16 point lead and should have been pounding the rock with Singletary to control the clock. 

 

At the end of the 3Q, the Bills lead was 16-8.  Of ~49 offensive plays, run/pass balance was 26 pass plays/23 rush plays

 

You write this as though the Bills went totally pass-happy at a point where we had a 16 point lead, but in fact it was a very balanced attack through the end of the 3Q.  3Q was 7 rush plays, 5 pass plays.

 

The play selection became pass-heavy in the 4Q and particularly in OT, at which point of course we were trying to tie the game and then win it.

 

 

 

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Well, Bills fans...you’re about to get your wish...

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1 minute ago, JaCrispy said:

Well, Bills fans...you’re about to get your wish...

Which is?

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Cleveland needs to sign him tonight

 

Image result for angry girl gif"
 

Gfy

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Which is?

Most Bills fans on TBD seem to want Daboll on a midnight train outta town...Idk, I would hate starting over at OC...

Edited by JaCrispy

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Just now, JaCrispy said:

Most Bills fans on TBD seem to want Daboll on a midnight train outta town...Idk, I would hate starting over at OC...


Ah

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Just now, JaCrispy said:

Most Bills fans on TBD seem to want Daboll on a midnight train outta town...

 

If you have news, please give it and source.

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2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If you have news, please give it and source.

 

I have a buddy that works for a team (not Bills). 
he just texted me and said I have heard you guys are going to need a new OC. 
he has been about 50% on stuff he has given me over the years. 

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2 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Most Bills fans on TBD seem to want Daboll on a midnight train outta town...


I don’t. I’d rather get better in the offensive system that we are in.

 

If people think McDermott is going to bring in some edgy OC, they are out of their mind.

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Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

I have a buddy that works for a team (not Bills). 
he just texted me and said I have heard you guys are going to need a new OC. 
he has been about 50% on stuff he has given me over the years. 

 

So I should flip a coin and do just as well as your buddy?

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2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So I should flip a coin and do just as well as your buddy?


Yep pretty much. He is better when it comes to players and really much more accurate in the NFC. But I like listening to him he taught me a ton about values of players 

Edited by MAJBobby

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1 hour ago, Putin said:

I think his first year ( success he had ) went to his fat head , no one knows just yet who will have a better career him or Josh BUT at least we know that Josh is a hard worker and I’m glad he’s a Buffalo Bill 

 

I also think that Baker had assumed his own invincibility after years and years of success from Oklahoma to a highly productive rookie year he had no reason to believe that he would keep going upward. But I think mentally he had assumed that if he kept just doing what he had been doing that it would just work out. I think if he gets humbled by this past season that is going to be a good thing for him long term. If the Browns can get a quality coach and improve their O-line and defense I don’t see why Baker couldn’t lead the Browns to a successful season of 9-10 wins. Sometimes players need to be punched in the mouth (metaphorically) in order to combat resting on their own reputation. 

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1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:


Yep pretty much. He is better when it comes to players and really much more accurate in the NFC. But I like listening to him he taught me a ton about values of players 

 

What's he tell you about the value of Shaq Lawson, Jordan Phillips, and Quinton Spain?

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Who wouldn't  love to coach in Cleveland? You can hop in the lake anytime...

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2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What's he tell you about the value of Shaq Lawson, Jordan Phillips, and Quinton Spain?


Shaq he says is around 7-9 AVV

Jordan Phillips 8-9M AVV

Spain 9-11M AVV

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4 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I also think that Baker had assumed his own invincibility after years and years of success from Oklahoma to a highly productive rookie year he had no reason to believe that he would keep going upward. But I think mentally he had assumed that if he kept just doing what he had been doing that it would just work out. I think if he gets humbled by this past season that is going to be a good thing for him long term. If the Browns can get a quality coach and improve their O-line and defense I don’t see why Baker couldn’t lead the Browns to a successful season of 9-10 wins. Sometimes players need to be punched in the mouth (metaphorically) in order to combat resting on their own reputation. 

I can attest to this. A good friend of mine is related to a Browns player. 
 

He said that Baker did not put much time into video, studying the playbook, etc. 

 

They player had been with other organizations prior and said that he did not work on those aspects like other QBs he had been around in the past. 
 

Maybe Baker changes that... but I’ve never heard anyone say Josh doesn’t work hard. Things like this are slowly but surely confirming to me that we made the the right decision with our QB. 

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