Armchair QB Whisperers beware! Pros see Allen differently.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said:

Not changing the premise. The premise was that Allen can be bad for large chunks of games. Allen was 3/9 for 19 yards and sack for the first 14 minutes and 27 seconds of the Pats game. That’s bad for a lot of time.

 

admit it.

 

Jim Kubiak in the Buffalo News does a review and breakdown of Josh every week (paywall)

https://buffalonews.com/2019/12/22/buffalo-bills-new-england-patriots-josh-allen-quarterback-analysis-jim-kubiak/

 

The bottom line is there were 3 pass plays in the 1Q.  So no way Josh could be 3/9 when there were.....only 3 pass plays.

[BringBackOrton]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Jim Kubiak in the Buffalo News does a review and breakdown of Josh every week (paywall)

https://buffalonews.com/2019/12/22/buffalo-bills-new-england-patriots-josh-allen-quarterback-analysis-jim-kubiak/

 

The bottom line is there were 3 pass plays in the 1Q.  So no way Josh could be 3/9 when there were.....only 3 pass plays.

I’m sorry, my math was wrong lol. I meant 29 minutes and 27 seconds.

15 minutes ago, Nitro said:

Again you are wrong.  The first quarter stats are:  Bills 10 plays,   7 runs 26 yards, 3 pass attempts (1 for 3) 14 yards with time of possession 6:03.  Admit it, you are have it wrong.  

See above. Forgot there’s 30 minutes in a half lol.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

I’m sorry, my math was wrong lol. I meant 29 minutes and 27 seconds.

See above. Forgot there’s 30 minutes in a half lol.

 

Then, Orton, I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make here.  You can talk about a quarter or a half, but what’s the point of talking about some arbitrary sub-group unless you’re trying to clinch an agenda?

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Then, Orton, I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make here.  You can talk about a quarter or a half, but what’s the point of talking about some arbitrary sub-group unless you’re trying to clinch an agenda?

You don’t understand that Allen playing extremely poorly for 29 minutes and 27 seconds proves that he did play poorly for a large stretch of the game?

Edited December 23, 2019 by BringBackOrton

[Mr. WEO]

"Pros"?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

You don’t understand that Allen playing extremely poorly for 29 minutes and 27 seconds proves that he did play poorly for a large stretch of the game?

 

I don’t want to be rude here, but this is really just way over the top.

 

I understand that during the first half, the TOP was something like 21 1/2 minutes Patriots, 8 1/2 minutes Bills.  Leaving aside that there were run and pass plays completed successfully before the final 30 seconds of the half,  Allen can not possibly play badly for 21 1/2 minutes in which he is NOT ON THE FIELD and no offensive turnovers were committed.

 

SMH.  Just SMDH.

 

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don’t want to be rude here, but this is really just way over the top.

 

I understand that during the first half, the TOP was something like 21 1/2 minutes Patriots, 8 1/2 minutes Bills.  Leaving aside that there were run and pass plays completed successfully before the final 30 seconds of the half,  Allen can not possibly play badly for 21 1/2 minutes in which he is NOT ON THE FIELD and no offensive turnovers were committed.

 

 

Again, TOP is an indictment, not an excuse. Offense didn’t sustain drives, and a large part of that was Allen completing 3-9 passes for a low amount of yards. 

 

Sure, defense allowed long drives as well. To beat the Pats historically, you have to keep them off the field. Both units failed.

[Alphadawg7]

9 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Absurd? 

 

Im just going to leave this right here.   This is and objective review of Allen by the same national media.  (with clips in link) 

 

"And that is how a quarterback goes 13-for-26. And that is why he now has 14 starts with a 55 percent completion rate or lower. As in, 14 of his 26 starts. Not great.

Maybe not the guy you take out of Wyoming with the seventh overall pick. Just a thought."

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/boston.cbslocal.com/2019/12/22/josh-allen-was-terrible-great-afc-title-game-preview-leftover-patriots-thoughts/amp/

 

Consistency and accuracy has been his biggest problem and his minimal improvement in those areas is what objective fans are concerned about and point out. 

 

Its not absurd to say Allen displays 25% magic and 75% sub par play in the majority his career. 

Yet entering this week:

6th ranked QB in the NFL in touchdowns with 27.

 

#1 rated QB in NFL in 4th quarter.

 

Most 4th quarter comebacks since entering the league despite not starting or finishing 6 games due to injury.

 

#1 rated QB on 3rd and long.

 

13-6 record in games he started and finished since coming back from injury last year.

 

Longest multiple TD streak in NFL this year

 

Second only to Lamar in touchdowns since week 4.

 

And all of this despite a frustrating OC, three top WRs averaging 5’10” in height, 9 new players on offense, inconsistent OL play against top defenses, facing some of the best D’s in the league late in the season, and still only having barley a season and a half of starts.  
 

Additionally, highest dropped pass rate in the NFL and Bills are second in total passes dropped in the NFL (and those stats are only counted on well placed balls).
 

Yeah...I think there is a LOT more to love than complain about.  

Edited December 23, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Again, TOP is an indictment, not an excuse. Offense didn’t sustain drives, and a large part of that was Allen completing 3-9 passes for a low amount of yards. 

 

Sure, defense allowed long drives as well. To beat the Pats historically, you have to keep them off the field. Both units failed.

 

?

[Dr.Sack]

I like Josh Allen as a person & in the locker room. I’m also of the opinion the Bills should have brought in a veteran like Fitzpatrick in 2018 to groom him & give him a year to adjust to the NFL game. This should be year 1 for Allen and at age 23 he’s doing fairly good things. I don’t like the mechanics but the fact he can complete 50 yard bombs flat footed shows the arm talent he has. He’s got a lot of work to improve into an elite QB but the raw talents & guts are all there. 

[thebandit27]

5 hours ago, london_bills said:

You see I disagree with 'he is a big reason why' we are at 10 wins. He is not a big reason why. He is a part of it absolutely, at times he is a reason why but not in total.

 

The accumulation of talent and depth, Coach motivation and the defence are a bigger reason as to why we are at 10 wins than Allen alone, generally speaking. 

True. 

 

He's scored 29 of the team's 35 TDs this season.

 

He's a HUGE reason why.

[BringBackOrton]

14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

?

I feel like I haven’t said anything crazy. Allen clearly stepped up and played better at the end of the first half and second half. He had a decent game overall, not great but not horrific. Much better than his first performance against the Pats.

 

But up til that final drive of the first half, the offense was bad and he was bad. Even getting a gift wrapped drive almost in the redzone, they couldn’t get 6. 

 

I don’t think that’s unfair or unreasonable, but I know QB talk is hot button after a loss. He’s either a complete failure or the rest of the team failed him. 

 

In my opinion, if you want to be the man, you have to be the man. If you want to be blameless after a loss as a leader of an offense, you have to put up points, sustain drives and make a lot of plays. Some folks ask, would you rather have Allen throw 300+ yards and 3TD’s in a game and lose than 150 yards and win? And the answer is it depends. 

 

In a do or die game in the playoffs, no. In a Super Bowl, no. Every week, no. But it’s okay every once in a while for your QB to play great and carry the team and still lose. All of the great QB’s have done it A LOT.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

I feel like I haven’t said anything crazy. Allen clearly stepped up and played better at the end of the first half and second half. He had a decent game overall, not great but not horrific. Much better than his first performance against the Pats.

 

But up til that final drive of the first half, the offense was bad and he was bad. Even getting a gift wrapped drive almost in the redzone, they couldn’t get 6. 

 

I don’t think that’s unfair or unreasonable, but I know QB talk is hot button after a loss. He’s either a complete failure or the rest of the team failed him. 

 

In my opinion, if you want to be the man, you have to be the man. If you want to be blameless after a loss as a leader of an offense, you have to put up points, sustain drives and make a lot of plays. Some folks ask, would you rather have Allen throw 300+ yards and 3TD’s in a game and lose than 150 yards and win? And the answer is it depends. 

 

In a do or die game in the playoffs, no. In a Super Bowl, no. Every week, no. But it’s okay every once in a while for your QB to play great and carry the team and still lose. All of the great QB’s have done it A LOT.

 

No one is claiming Allen is “blameless” after the loss. 

 

What you say above is pretty reasonable, actually.

 

What you have said?  Not so much.

You were making claims that Allen was “horrible” for 29 1/2 minutes of a half in which he was only on the field for a fraction of that time.

You gave wrong gouge on his stats and didn’t accept correction

Then you are fractionating his first half statistics to exclude the best drive so you can say he was “horrible” for the rest.

 

The bottom line is we came out of the first half tied and with 10 points - against a team that has been giving up on average 13 PPG 

 

Could we have played better in the first half offensively?  Undoubtedly.  Horrible for 29 1/2 minutes?  Cray-cray in my view

 

 

 

 

[Lurker]

8 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I tend to agree with all you said.

IF I had anything to say about JA it would be he needs to work on being more consistent earlier in games.

Sometimes it seems he's a little too tight to start.  Experience can help with that.

 

+1

 

And Josh said as much himself after the game.  He gets too amped up at the start and has almost an adrenalin rush that makes him jittery.   When that wears off and he calms down, he performs much better.

 

The big thing that will help him is experience.   He's getting a lot this year, with many tight games and the upcoming road playoff tilt.   That can only help him for next year and beyond.  Once he learns to slow the game down and remove the peaks and valleys, he's going to be something special... 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2019 by Lurker

[ganesh]

10 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Josh is making some of the same mistakes now that he made nearly 2 years ago.

 

Are we sure he's progressing and "learning" ???

 

His completion % is more what I'd call regressing to the mean.

 

 

 

He has 17 TD and 3 Int since week 4 at the Partiots...I would call that is  Learning and Progressing definitely

[Jerboski]

1 minute ago, ganesh said:

He has 17 TD and 3 Int since week 4 at the Partiots...I would call that is  Learning and Progressing definitely

Played much better at against new England than week 4 as well, was he perfect or really good, probably not.... is he showing hope, absolutely 

[BringBackOrton]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No one is claiming Allen is “blameless” after the loss. 

 

What you say above is pretty reasonable, actually.

 

What you have said?  Not so much.

You were making claims that Allen was “horrible” for 29 1/2 minutes of a half in which he was only on the field for a fraction of that time.

You gave wrong gouge on his stats and didn’t accept correction

Then you are fractionating his first half statistics to exclude the best drive so you can say he was “horrible” for the rest.

 

The bottom line is we came out of the first half tied and with 10 points - against a team that has been giving up on average 13 PPG 

 

Could we have played better in the first half offensively?  Undoubtedly.  Horrible for 29 1/2 minutes?  Cray-cray in my view

 

 

 

 

I actually wasn’t wrong on his stats. He really was 3/9 prior to that last drive. You can check the game log.

[Chandler#81]

14 hours ago, london_bills said:

It's true mate. On both counts 

“Large chucks of games”? It’s not true, Mate.

[Chandler#81]

10 hours ago, MJS said:

If it were up to me I'd ban all the Allen haters. Not because they deserve to be banned, but because I'm sick of reading garbage. Same with the McDermott haters. I don't want to have to sift through mindless garbage.

 

Here we have a regime that broke the drought, rebuilt the team, wins games, goes to the playoffs two times out of three, double digit wins for the first time this century, built a top 3 defense, and people still talk bad about them. We've got a QB who just wins games, comes up clutch when it matters, is an athletic freak, and pushes the ball down the field and we have fans who still bash him.

 

Just do us all a favor and go root for the Patriots.

Thank you!

 

Thread.

[Chandler#81]

13 hours ago, london_bills said:

Ok. He's not throwing picks. Let's see if he progresses to improve everything. 

 

(Not to be argumentative but the majority of the first half was the Allen of last year.) 

You ARE argumentative. And wrong.

12 hours ago, london_bills said:

LOL

A phrase from the film 'a few good men' comes to mind. ?

Just quit. Folks here think you’re clueless about American football. Start typing, you remove all doubt.

11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

Only 4?

?

5 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I believe their is a difference for seeing spots where Allen struggles and spots where he excelled. Looks at how he is developing and tell me he hasn’t improved from last year. 
I know from your many posts that you are. It someone calling for Josh’s head but you are a ‘slanted homer’ realist, like myself. There are some posters here who want to see Josh fail because it makes them look like they know something more about football than the people who drafted him. Which no one on here does unless  Beane or another GM or NFL caliber talent evaluator is actually posting here. I highly doubt that. Me I think our FO and coaches deserve the benefit of the doubt for now. The Bills will probably finish 10-6 by their choosing . They will be a tough out for Houston and could very well beat Houston. If Josh starts hitting that deep pass 2-3 times a game and then looks like he has working the 0-20 routes, this offense will finally be able to play complimentary football to the D. That will be something to behold. Can you imagine this D playing with a 14-21 point lead in the fourth quarter? And Daboll and McDermott letting Josh and the O keeping playing aggressively? 

For me, hitting those 2 long passes was critical. Playoff opponents now HAVE to respect that Allen’s otherworldly arm strength CAN destroy them deep. This bodes very well for our Running game as they won’t take the chance on stacking 8 or 9 in the box.

4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

"Pros"?

“Recognized, experienced National Sports reporters” was a tad long to fit into the Thread subtopic. But yes, they are paid for their work.?

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Yet entering this week:

6th ranked QB in the NFL in touchdowns with 27.

 

#1 rated QB in NFL in 4th quarter.

 

Most 4th quarter comebacks since entering the league despite not starting or finishing 6 games due to injury.

 

#1 rated QB on 3rd and long.

 

13-6 record in games he started and finished since coming back from injury last year.

 

Longest multiple TD streak in NFL this year

 

Second only to Lamar in touchdowns since week 4.

 

And all of this despite a frustrating OC, three top WRs averaging 5’10” in height, 9 new players on offense, inconsistent OL play against top defenses, facing some of the best D’s in the league late in the season, and still only having barley a season and a half of starts.  
 

Additionally, highest dropped pass rate in the NFL and Bills are second in total passes dropped in the NFL (and those stats are only counted on well placed balls).
 

Yeah...I think there is a LOT more to love than complain about.  

Thank you! Still, our agenda-based brethren won’t let facts get in the way of their baseless tirades..

3 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

+1

 

And Josh said as much himself after the game.  He gets too amped up at the start and has almost an adrenalin rush that makes him jittery.   When that wears off and he calms down, he performs much better.

 

The big thing that will help him is experience.   He's getting a lot this year, with many tight games and the upcoming road playoff tilt.   That can only help him for next year and beyond.  Once he learns to slow the game down and remove the peaks and valleys, he's going to be something special... 

 

 

Will the League lighten up it’s marijuana penalties this off season?? Could be a big help early on.

 

Thanks, folks! Great discussion. Now Let’s go do some DAMAGE in the Playoffs!