Why You Shouldn’t Feel Completely Dejected Over Josh Allen’s Poor Performance

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Allen2Moulds said:

It was early and often, and we did a very poor job of countering. The best way to counter blitzing, is with quick screens. Use the other teams aggression against them. Unfortunately, we have a NONEXISTENT screen game.

 

ftfy

 

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I wouldn't call it a drop if it never hit his hands. I would say, however, that (irrespective of that play) Brown shows a bothersome lack of competitiveness on critical passes.

It hit both of Browns hands.

 

 

 

The ball was not blocked by the defender.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Scott7975

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Allen2Moulds said:

It was early and often, and we did a very poor job of countering. The best way to counter blitzing, is with quick screens. Use the other teams aggression against them. Unfortunately, we have a below average screen game.

 

We tried a couple screens early and they were blown up for loss IIRC.  But there were quick passes available way more often than Josh took them.

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Peters knocked it away. It was a great play by the DB on a good throw and a good route. There are good players on the other side too!

 

Negative see my pictures above.  

[jrober38]

23 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Its not that... it’s the overreactions on both sides of the argument.  

 

Is it an overreaction to say Josh Allen's deep ball is absolutely horrendous? 

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

It did.  And Peters knocked it out...

 

No he didn't.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

We tried a couple screens early and they were blown up for loss IIRC.  But there were quick passes available way more often than Josh took them.

Probably true but playcalling did not help. Third down on last possession is an example- Singletary picks up outside letting free man right up middle and Knox isn't turned around at the top of drop to be a hot. Zero chance of that play succeeding even if properly blocked...there's no route accommodating for the blitz. 

 

[Boatdrinks]

6 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

It hit both of Browns hands.

 

 

 

The ball was not blocked by the defender.

Of course the narrative is that Peters made a great play on the ball to win the game. The eye in the sky doesn’t lie. Looks like a drop by Brown and a very accurate throw by Allen. 

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

We tried a couple screens early and they were blown up for loss IIRC.  But there were quick passes available way more often than Josh took them.

And here's one where he did what needed to be done...imo they are going to have to make it a hard and fast rule that if the defense shows blitz w/corner off wideout the route needs to be cut and that's where it's going 90% of the time. Then wait for cover0, adjust protection, and hit deep on double move. That should have been the gameplan the whole time imo.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

ftfy

 

 

We threw 6 screen passes per NFL scoring.

They went for -4, 2, a drop, 1, 13 (called back for holding) and 0 yds

 

When it's 15% of pass attempts (6/39) and 29% of completed passes, I don't think you can call it "nonexistant"

"Ineffective" is the correct term.

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Is it an overreaction to say Josh Allen's deep ball is absolutely horrendous? 

 

Depends...have you used that adjective to describe everything about him since his days at Wyoming?

 

Because if the answer is yes, then it's going to be really difficult to have it taken seriously when you use it now.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Probably true but playcalling did not help. Third down on last possession is an example- Singletary picks up outside letting free man right up middle and Knox isn't turned around at the top of drop to be a hot. Zero chance of that play succeeding even if properly blocked...there's no route accommodating for the blitz. 

 

 

No argument

[DuckyBoys]

Line was bad.  Daboll didnt provide answers to the endless pressure.  Allen missed on a few deep throws that could have changed the game early. Too many drops and receivers not competing for tough catches yet again  .  Ravens defense was tough, Wink sent the house and the Bills didnt make them pay  .  On to the Steelers, hopefully Allen learns from this and Daboll had a better game plan.

[thebandit27]

10 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

It hit both of Browns hands.

 

 

 

The ball was not blocked by the defender.

 

Wow. Looked like Peters got it clean on the game broadcast replay.

 

Now sometimes still shots can be manipulated (not by you, just by timing a pause just right), but that does make me want to see it again.

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

Of course the narrative is that Peters made a great play on the ball to win the game. The eye in the sky doesn’t lie. Looks like a drop by Brown and a very accurate throw by Allen. 

 

I mean the play was there.  Josh delivered it to browns hands.  Brown had both hands on it.  I cant blame him for dropping it really because it was outstanding coverage so still a good defensive play.  It's just that Peters never touched the ball.  That is a drop.  A big physical receiver in the same position probably catches that ball.  I think Duke Williams would have caught that ball.  Not a knock on Brown because Brown is good.  It's more saying that we don't have that big physical guy that will grab that like an AJ Green or a Gronk etc.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

We threw 6 screen passes per NFL scoring.

They went for -4, 2, a drop, 1, 13 (called back for holding) and 0 yds

 

When it's 15% of pass attempts (6/39) and 29% of completed passes, I don't think you can call it "nonexistant"

"Ineffective" is the correct term.

 

When they amount for -1 yards of offense, that's pretty nonexistent

 

It's not a commentary on just this season, either. Only Chan in the past 20 years or so consistently called them.

 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

We threw 6 screen passes per NFL scoring.

They went for -4, 2, a drop, 1, 13 (called back for holding) and 0 yds

 

When it's 15% of pass attempts (6/39) and 29% of completed passes, I don't think you can call it "nonexistant"

"Ineffective" is the correct term.

Yes and I don't think that is counting the screen to McKenzie that went for a nice gain-

 

 

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Depends...have you used that adjective to describe everything about him since his days at Wyoming?

 

Because if the answer is yes, then it's going to be really difficult to have it taken seriously when you use it now.

 

Take your own advice and cut the hyperbole.

 

His mobility is good. His accuracy when he gets to drive the ball is good. His decision making has got better.

 

His deep ball is one of the worst I've ever seen. The ball routinely lands no where near his target. 

 

People laughed at EJ Manuel for throwing the ball out of bounds in a practice into a tent.

 

Allen had Robert Foster running free down the field for a touchdown and threw the ball out of bounds yesterday.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Of course the narrative is that Peters made a great play on the ball to win the game. The eye in the sky doesn’t lie. Looks like a drop by Brown and a very accurate throw by Allen. 

 

I'm not sure two stills tell you everything about the play. 

Irregardless of that, the fact is, we see WR and TE make completions on those kind of accurate contested throws every week

We seldom see our guys make it happen though

Edit: here is a still with different timing.  It appears to me that Peters got the back of his hand under and in front of the ball and deflected it forward (2nd picture).  Based upon this, I believe the ball was defensed by Peters, but my point that other WR on other teams do sometimes manage to haul in these high DOD, well-defended catches, and I can't remember the last time I saw one by a Buffalo Bill player, let alone a WR.

[Allen2Moulds]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

We threw 6 screen passes per NFL scoring.

They went for -4, 2, a drop, 1, 13 (called back for holding) and 0 yds

 

When it's 15% of pass attempts (6/39) and 29% of completed passes, I don't think you can call it "nonexistant"

"Ineffective" is the correct term.

As I mention above, below average screen game.  I don't know why.  When we call it?  How it's designed (poor disguise)?  Maybe both, along with other factors.

[GoBills808]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

 

His deep ball is one of the worst I've ever seen. The ball routinely lands no where near his target. 

 

 

Nah

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Irregardless

 

 

"I do not think this word means what you think it means."

 

Disirregardless?

 

[jrober38]

7 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Wow. Looked like Peters got it clean on the game broadcast replay.

 

Now sometimes still shots can be manipulated (not by you, just by timing a pause just right), but that does make me want to see it again.

 

I just rewatched it.

 

The ball isn't at Brown's hands in this shot.

 

In the next frame it looks like Peters knocks the ball away. 

 

He certainly celebrated like he got a hand on it. 

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Nah

 

 

Both receivers had to dive to try and catch the ball at full stretch.

 

This is supposed to show accuracy?

 

Now post the throws to Brown, Foster and Knox in the first quarter....

Edited December 9, 2019 by jrober38

[Scott7975]

6 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Wow. Looked like Peters got it clean on the game broadcast replay.

 

Now sometimes still shots can be manipulated (not by you, just by timing a pause just right), but that does make me want to see it again.

 

I posted the video from twitter in one of these threads somewhere.  It has like 3 different angles of the play.  It is very fast and hard to tell but I paused it a million times over and over on each angle.  He didn't touch the ball IMO.  Obviously they are paused shots but its pretty clear.  Maybe on coaches film we can slow mo it for a definite but I am unware of any way to slow mo a vid posted to twitter.

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Both receivers had to dive to try and catch the ball at full stretch.

 

This is supposed to show accuracy?

 

Now post the throws to Brown, Foster and Knox in the first quarter....

LOL. You are a caricature at this point. Both of these throws are exactly where they need to be. 

[thebandit27]

6 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Take your own advice and cut the hyperbole.

 

His mobility is good. His accuracy when he gets to drive the ball is good. His decision making has got better.

 

His deep ball is one of the worst I've ever seen. The ball routinely lands no where near his target. 

 

People laughed at EJ Manuel for throwing the ball out of bounds in a practice into a tent.

 

Allen had Robert Foster running free down the field for a touchdown and threw the ball out of bounds yesterday.

 

My hyperbole?

 

What you've said about him repeatedly is out there for all to see. You literally called him a horrible football player at Wyoming.

 

From "he's horrible" pre draft to "he'll never be accurate" last year to "he'll never beat a good defense" this year to "well his deep ball still sucks" now, you've seemed to have an agenda from day 1. In this very post you're comparing him to EJ Manuel. EJ. Manuel. Right here.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

 

My hyperbole?

 

What you've said about him repeatedly is out there for all to see. You literally called him a horrible football player at Wyoming.

 

From "he's horrible" pre draft to "he'll never be accurate" last year to "he'll never beat a good defense" this year to "well his deep ball still sucks" now, you've seemed to have an agenda from day 1. In this very post you're comparing him to EJ Manuel. EJ. Manuel. Right here.

 

"You're just a rockpile fan. The Sabres are so much more fun!"

 

 

[thebandit27]

7 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I just rewatched it.

 

The ball isn't at Brown's hands in this shot.

 

In the next frame it looks like Peters knocks the ball away. 

 

He certainly celebrated like he got a hand on it. 

 

Both receivers had to dive to try and catch the ball at full stretch.

 

This is supposed to show accuracy?

 

Now post the throws to Brown, Foster and Knox in the first quarter....

 

Oh FFS the Beasley throw is perfect.

 

You're out to lunch.

[jrober38]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

LOL. You are a caricature at this point. Both of these throws are exactly where they need to be. 

 

You can't honestly think this is true.

 

Right where they need to be would be in the bucket so the receiver can run after the catch.

 

They shouldn't have to dive for the football just to get tackled if they can hang on.

 

Now, please post the three deep passes from the 1st quarter. Be objective and post them all.

[downunderbill]

All QBs have bad games, especially young QBs. Lets see how bounces back in the next couple of weeks. He'll be just fine.

[atlbillsfan1975]

1 hour ago, metzelaars_lives said:

As a Wyoming fan, he did beat Boise State and San Diego State at home, both of whom were ranked at the time, in 2016.  He also narrowly lost to San Diego State in the MWC Championship Game.  Not the NFL, obviously, but they were big games- I was at all three of them!

I am sure those were great games and they are big wins for Wyoming. I was speaking more to the noise and excitement. I am maybe way off base but Josh seems so hyped up. Just needs to play inside himself. He looked great against Dallas when they were cheering against him. Who knows, I could be reading into it. Just want Josh to be the guy he has shown he can be for entire games. He won’t ever be mistake free, no QB  is. 

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Oh FFS the Beasley throw is perfect.

 

You're out to lunch.

The winning play in the first Pats game iirc was a very similar route from White against Milano, thrown by Brady in the exact same place. He made the catch and Singletary didn't. 

 

Only a simpleton looks at those plays and says 'QB isn't accurate'

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

The winning play in the first Pats game iirc was a very similar route from White against Milano, thrown by Brady in the exact same place. He made the catch and Singletary didn't. 

 

Only a simpleton looks at those plays and says 'QB isn't accurate'

 

Nah, a dude with a raging agenda could do it too.

[jrober38]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

The winning play in the first Pats game iirc was a very similar route from White against Milano, thrown by Brady in the exact same place. He made the catch and Singletary didn't. 

 

Only a simpleton looks at those plays and says 'QB isn't accurate'

 

Singletary wasn't even able to get two hands on the football.

[GoBills808]

Yeah cause he jumped too early and didn't run through the ball. Just go away, I realize you only post comments after losses but it's getting on my ***** nerves already

[Scott7975]

30 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Depends...have you used that adjective to describe everything about him since his days at Wyoming?

 

Because if the answer is yes, then it's going to be really difficult to have it taken seriously when you use it now.

 

Just an FYI after the Cowboys game that poster had two football posts the entire week.  He already has 30 football posts after yesterday.  One of few guys that don't like Allen but haven't really posted anything for quite sometime until yesterday.  Not quite sure what that means but....

Edited December 9, 2019 by Scott7975

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Yeah cause he jumped too early and didn't run through the ball. Just go away, I realize you only post comments after losses but it's getting on my ***** nerves already

 

LOL

 

It's always someone else's fault with Allen.

 

Post the videos for the three first quarter deep balls.

 

I can't wait to hear the excuses for why those throws landed nowhere near the receivers. 

[Scott7975]

34 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm not sure two stills tell you everything about the play. 

Irregardless of that, the fact is, we see WR and TE make completions on those kind of accurate contested throws every week

We seldom see our guys make it happen though

Edit: here is a still with different timing.  It appears to me that Peters got the back of his hand under and in front of the ball and deflected it forward (2nd picture).  Based upon this, I believe the ball was defensed by Peters, but my point that other WR on other teams do sometimes manage to haul in these high DOD, well-defended catches, and I can't remember the last time I saw one by a Buffalo Bill player, let alone a WR.

 

Disagree.  Watch the video I posted somewhere around here.  There is a better angle of the play.  Almost a front shot of Brown.  Its Browns own hands that knock the ball away.  Even on this angle look at the placement of the defenders arm.  It is outside of Browns arms.  These screengrabs are after the Brown already pushed the ball forward with his own hands.  Its fast but pretty clear in the other angle if you keep pausing.  I could be wrong.  We will know for sure with coaches film when it can be slowed down but that's what I see.

 

If you look at this picture vs your shot you see the defender arm in the same position it is now with both Browns hands on the ball.  There is no way the defender in a split second brought his arm inside Browns hands and knocked it away...

 

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Scott7975

[Teddy KGB]

28 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

 

 

Both receivers had to dive to try and catch the ball at full stretch.

 

 

This is art ^^^ 

[downunderbill]

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Just an FYI after the Cowboys game that poster had two football posts the entire week.  He already has 30 football posts after yesterday.  One of few guys that don't like Allen but haven't really posted anything for quite sometime until yesterday.  Not quite sure what that means but....

 

There's a few that come to mind. Must be fun people to be around.