london_bills Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 9 minutes ago, K-9 said: That’s on you, then. But you may want to brace yourself because Allen is going to have bad plays, bad series, and bad games while you’re waiting. You’ll be wallowing in more misery. It’s interesting, from a psychological standpoint, that his bad throws are so definitive while every other aspect of QB play, INCLUDING those aspects that don’t involve throwing the ball, are ignored. Certainly not wallowed in misery. I think my opinion makes others feel miserable! Clearly he is going to have 'bad plays, series and games while I'm waiting', my concern is that maybe we will be having the same conversation in the future. For his other aspects to have been ignored they would have had to been ignored. Allen has great of the field traits. A quarterback will always be defined by bad throws though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Speaking directly to a point that YOU brought up? Are you confident that you know what the colloquialism "cherry picking" actually means? Picking red fruit from a tree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said: Nor does a bad throw, which everyone acknowledges he's made, mean he won't be! You also seem to need to be right about the inconsistency. I'll answer with Yes he is somewhat, most would acknowledge that, so there's that. Serious question? can you acknowledge that will improve and already has? Yes there has been improvement. Yes yes yes! But there have been things that haven't improved aswell. I just feel I am right with the inconsistency. We all think we are right but I will admit if I'm wrong. I'm not stubborn if I can see I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 30 minutes ago, london_bills said: It all depends how you view Allen. For me it buys into the fact that he's inconsistent. I thought the dallas game he was more consistent in his play. If he plays a difficult defense and makes a poor throw people might look and find reasons as to why it was a bad throw. These things would be right, it's not always totally on him, if the line collapses for example. I suppose I'm waiting to be proved wrong about his inconsistency. That's probably why every bad throw feels like it says something defining about him. Each of us focuses on what we choose to focus on. And it defines us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 17 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: And guys, just for the record, it’s ok to criticize players for playing poorly... you don’t have to be scared of someone taking your fan card away lol You can still root for Josh and criticize him at the same time...it’s not a “dis or dat”. ? i feel like there are some fans that feel they just have to toe the line of always praising Allen, and ridiculing those who just want better from their QBS, and point out where he needs to improve. Of course it's fine to point out where he needs to improve. The problem is that many people try to pass off over-the-top criticism as just pointing out where he needs to improve. Case in point: in this very post you're saying he played poorly. He had over 100 passer rating and numerous elite-level plays that gave the team a chance to win against the best defense in the league, in their building, in a game the opponent needed to win, in prime time. Now, if you want to say that he's not good enough yet to get it done, fine. Totally defensible. To call what he did on Saturday "playing poorly" is outrageous IMO. Especially if it's all based upon "COMPLETION PERCENTAGE!!!1!1!111!1" 2 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: Picking red fruit from a tree? Should I back up and ask if you are familiar with the term "colloquialism"? ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Pokebball said: Each of us focuses on what we choose to focus on. And it defines us. Very true. You mean how one person is an optimist and another a pessimist for example? Not to say it isn't to you but the truth is very important to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, london_bills said: Certainly not wallowed in misery. I think my opinion makes others feel miserable! Clearly he is going to have 'bad plays, series and games while I'm waiting', my concern is that maybe we will be having the same conversation in the future. For his other aspects to have been ignored they would have had to been ignored. Allen has great of the field traits. A quarterback will always be defined by bad throws though. Maybe by fans who judge the position on only the most superficial level. And that’s fine. But those fans are missing the bigger picture in the meantime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 1 minute ago, K-9 said: Maybe by fans who judge the position on only the most superficial level. And that’s fine. But those fans are missing the bigger picture in the meantime. What's the bigger picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, london_bills said: What's the bigger picture? That the bad throws need to be balanced with the great ones. If he has a 102.7 rating against the number 1 defense that is a balance metric. I mean if he threw a couple picks too it would go way down, he didn't. When a QB has 100+ rating his team almost always wins, unless the opponents QB is over 100 too.....Guess what? Brady Edited December 23, 2019 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, london_bills said: What's the bigger picture? Well, those aspects of QB play that don’t involve throwing the ball, for starters. Allen was the greenest of green horns entering the league. He followed a path to the NFL that entailed the least amount of QB experience and development; the polar opposite of his peers who attended elite QB camps from middle school on and who then went on to become star recruits at the position at major college programs. He was just miles behind developmentally and that needs to be remembered. There is an old scouting axiom that still holds true: it takes 1,000 attempts to make a determination on a prospect as a passer. Just because we live in a cap era with free agency and the compressed time schedules for development as a result, doesn’t make that any less true. ESPECIALLY for under developed prospects coming in, like Josh Allen for example. The pressure for these young QBs to be immediate success stories and lead teams to playoff and SB wins is intense, even unprecedented. But Allen is still a couple hundred attempts away from that 1,000 mark and all signs point to an upward trajectory. I’ll choose to wait before pronouncing judgement on his success as an NFL quarterback. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 25 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Of course it's fine to point out where he needs to improve. The problem is that many people try to pass off over-the-top criticism as just pointing out where he needs to improve. Case in point: in this very post you're saying he played poorly. He had over 100 passer rating and numerous elite-level plays that gave the team a chance to win against the best defense in the league, in their building, in a game the opponent needed to win, in prime time. Now, if you want to say that he's not good enough yet to get it done, fine. Totally defensible. To call what he did on Saturday "playing poorly" is outrageous IMO. Especially if it's all based upon "COMPLETION PERCENTAGE!!!1!1!111!1" Should I back up and ask if you are familiar with the term "colloquialism"? ? You ain’t my judge...? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 1 hour ago, JaCrispy said: Sounds like cherry picking... That is a breathtaking reply given your last hour of criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: That is a breathtaking reply given your last hour of criticism. You’re welcome ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 1 minute ago, JaCrispy said: You’re welcome ? You took my breath away. I see you, handsome. You do you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 (edited) 46 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said: That the bad throws need to be balanced with the great ones. If he has a 102.7 rating against the number 1 defense that is a balance metric. I mean if he threw a couple picks too it would go way down, he didn't. When a QB has 100+ rating his team almost always wins, unless the opponents QB is over 100 too.....Guess what? Brady That the bad throws need to be balanced with the great ones I am concerned with a QB who makes the hard throws and misses the easy ones. This nature is always going to polarise fans. Yes I know that's a high passer rating but.. He was 13/26. 50% completion. We scored 17 points. Few games ago Bills were 9-0 when Allen was 60% or more. Pats are a good defence but it would have been great for Allen to be closer to 60 percent. He has improved the picks and the deep passes were awesome. Edited December 23, 2019 by london_bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 28 minutes ago, london_bills said: Very true. You mean how one person is an optimist and another a pessimist for example? Not to say it isn't to you but the truth is very important to me. Optimist/Pessimist, Homer/Hater, Black/White, All This/All That are nothing but 2 sides of the same coin. Reality lies somewhere in between these extremes. Human nature and experiences clouds the best of us. Personally as a fan of this team I trend towards "hopefulness" lately with both Josh Allen and the team as a whole. This has been a pleasant change from the past. I've seen improvement in his game (can't agree with some who have not) BUT I don't know how much more we will see. It makes future games fun to watch and for me "predicting" his future success is a exercise in futility. I can name a half dozen things JA needs to improve on and another half dozen things he does well. I do believe he will give good effort in improving and all I can do is wait and see what happens. Thus ends my $0.02 of the truth about Josh Allen. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 (edited) 41 minutes ago, K-9 said: Well, those aspects of QB play that don’t involve throwing the ball, for starters. Allen was the greenest of green horns entering the league. He followed a path to the NFL that entailed the least amount of QB experience and development; the polar opposite of his peers who attended elite QB camps from middle school on and who then went on to become star recruits at the position at major college programs. He was just miles behind developmentally and that needs to be remembered. There is an old scouting axiom that still holds true: it takes 1,000 attempts to make a determination on a prospect as a passer. Just because we live in a cap era with free agency and the compressed time schedules for development as a result, doesn’t make that any less true. ESPECIALLY for under developed prospects coming in, like Josh Allen for example. The pressure for these young QBs to be immediate success stories and lead teams to playoff and SB wins is intense, even unprecedented. But Allen is still a couple hundred attempts away from that 1,000 mark and all signs point to an upward trajectory. I’ll choose to wait before pronouncing judgement on his success as an NFL quarterback. Thanks, that's a good read. 1.There is a big 'wanting him to succeed narrative' which I am part of aswell. But I think I see it for what it is and don't allow it to always 'colour' my views. 2. I dont know the answer as to whether he will make it either but im not going to reserve any opinionated posts for three years until the judgement is in. That's what being a fan is about, living the moments. There are some things that happen that I wonder whether we will be talking about in 3 years. My posts after the dallas game were very different to this week. Edited December 23, 2019 by london_bills 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, london_bills said: Thanks, that's a good read. 1.There is a big 'wanting him to succeed narrative' which I am part of aswell. But I think I see it for what it is and don't allow it to always 'colour' my views. 2. I dont know the answer as to whether he will make it either but im not going to reserve any opinionated posts for three years until the judgement is in. That's what being a fan is about, living the moments. There are some things that happen that I wonder whether we will be talking about in 3 years. My posts after the dallas game were very different to this week. Couldn’t have said it better myself...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 1 hour ago, london_bills said: Thanks, that's a good read. 1.There is a big 'wanting him to succeed narrative' which I am part of aswell. But I think I see it for what it is and don't allow it to always 'colour' my views. 2. I dont know the answer as to whether he will make it either but im not going to reserve any opinionated posts for three years until the judgement is in. That's what being a fan is about, living the moments. There are some things that happen that I wonder whether we will be talking about in 3 years. My posts after the dallas game were very different to this week. I can respect that. But there is a segment of the forumthat offers up opinionated posts as pronouncements. And that’s just foolish given where Allen is in his development. In the meantime, Allen is by far the least developed QB of his class, but he owns a winning record and is headed for the playoffs. Only one other QB from his class can say that. Not bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 (edited) Every QB makes a bunch of poor throws every game. The difference is their receivers usually bail them out. I watched Wentz and Dak both make poor throws all game. I watched receivers catch balls over their heads, down at their ankles, and thrown behind them. I watched balls from both thrown nowhere near the receiver. none of you guys that are criticizing Allen ever analyze that. You think great pass instead. The difference is the receiver caught the damn ball anyways. Sure Allen does have some poor throws but they all do. allen also doesn’t have screen plays and dink and dunk routes all these guys have that raise their completion %. These guys aren’t throwing from 2nd and 3rd and long for large portions of the game. Dabolls offense sucks. His play calling is even worse. There is a lot more to being a good OC than “but he schemed a guy open” Edited December 23, 2019 by Scott7975 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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