Josh Allen in concussion protocol: Update cleared 10/5

[Kelly the Dog]

4 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

To be clear, that was still in drills, not going through the actual game plan practice.  The media is not allowed to observe that part, for obvious reasons.

That is true, and thanks for the clarification. Although, for example, the defense in the drill didn't have enough DBs in there and while about to snap, Josh was making sure they had enough, which indicates they were trying to run plays. Plus the relevant point is they lined up with the first offense receivers and Josh was out there.

[jkeerie]

5 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

The answer to your crusade about Josh not playing will be answered soon enough. Get some Franks Hot Sauce for your crow!

In truth you have an equal crusade for Josh to play.  Let's face it.  We ALL (with the exception of the Josh haters) want Josh to be cleared and ready to play, and to start on Sunday.  As fans, wishing doesn't make it so.  None of us, has a clue right now what will happen.  We're all trying to read the same tea leaves...and there is very limited information right now.  It's not a matter of anybody being right.  It's a matter of what is best for Josh and ultimately the team and that is in the hands of the neurologist and the coaches.  

[nucci]

2 minutes ago, Deep2Moulds46 said:

I would disagree with that. 

The plays may be the same, but the Qbs have tendencies. With Allen, specifically, you would need your DLineman to be more aware of rushing lanes and bailout points on the edges, where with Barkley you could just have them rush. 

Barkley gets rid of the ball quicker. Allen can turn any play into a schoolyard freelance. 

Allen forces defenders to defend things that most Qbs don't. So keeping this under wraps is smart.

then we should do this every week. You just mentioned each QB tendencies....you don't think Titans know this

Edited October 3, 2019 by nucci

[Wayne Cubed]

4 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Wednesday and Thursday are installation days.   If Joe was cleared on a Wednesday, he didn't miss the installation practices.

 

The BIG question we have is, did Josh...

He was cleared after practice... so again he went through an installation day and no one knew, not even the coaches. Also, you are assuming a Thursday night game and a Sunday game have the same installation practice schedule. 
 

edit: and McD doesn’t have to announce if he’s cleared protocol until the final injury report... so we won’t know until after Fridays practice.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Wayne Cubed

[Deep2Moulds46]

Just now, nucci said:

The Titans look at film of the Bills offense...how they line up...what plays they run from what formations....do you really think this gives the Bills a huge advantage? You either run the ball or throw....how difficult is this?

When you have 2 Qbs who play completely different, then it makes a big difference. 

QB tendencies. Qb target preferences. Josh Allen's running ability. His tendencies to bait pass rushers in and then run around them to get out of the pocket. These are all things that if you don't prepare for, he will make you look silly. And if you do prepare for (and he doesn't play) then you spent time preparing for something that was irrelevant. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, DrPJax said:

I think you are right on it Kelly,  he did take all the snaps and the PROTOCOL by definition means he has to have done or survived a normal practice ( which is everything but contact I would  think for a QB, for a non QB contact would be the last step of the protocol ) and then NOT HAVE  any recurrent symptoms tomorrow. I think by definition if wed was stage 4 , todays practice would be stage 5 . I believe by definition he has to take the computerized IMPACT  testing tomorrow to be sure his reaction times , memory , impulse control , etc all have returned to baseline and remain at his baseline 24 hours after last full practice to fulfill the final step of the protocol.  So I think by definition he could really only FULLY clear the protocol by as early as tomorrow so today’s announcement I believe still fits with normal progression and no one can say he definitely out yet.   Initially this protocol was set up to be a minimum of 24 hours per stage , however that has been modified for adults allowing faster progression. I think he is following an early course and I bet he will clear it tomorrow only based on the fact that he got all the reps and the focus wasn’t on getting Barkley ready. I don’t believe they have Barkley Standing around like has been reported , without activating the other QB additionally, unless they are almost certain that Josh will be  cleared. If for some reason he is not cleared by tomorrow, I don’t see how they could avoid letting Barkley get the lions share of reps. To me tomorrow is the telltale day. 
if I may, for all those guys ( not you Kelly ) posting that he probably wasn’t concussed or “ was barely “ concussed , you are missing the point. It doesn’t matter how he looks to untrained people on a video. The computerized testing picks up on memory and coordination and reaction times and then compares them to HIS baseline normals.  He would not be in the protocol if he had all normal tests to begin with; there is no debate he had a concussion. This as stated is taken control of by outside independent neurologists so there is no way the team puts him in it ( esp since they have no control over the situation once he is in it ) to just protect him or to be cautious etc.  By definition the whole process/ protocol is out of team control. To say he was “ never really concussed “, or this was for “ optics “ is laughable and shows how little some people still misunderstand concussions and why independent people are needed to protect the safety of players. How would you like someone with that type of understanding making a decision about the future brain health of your son or fiancé if you are in Allen’s camp ?  Thank goodness we are beyond that. 

 

First of all thank you for your input on the "optics" "never concussed" theories!  I had forgotten that concussion assessment and clearing the protocol are under control of independent neurologists not team doctors.  Good reminder (or education)

 

As for Barkley standing around, keep in mind that reporters are only allowed in the initial portion of practice.  So the team can create whatever optics they like during walkthroughs and drills, and no one knows who got the lion's share of reps during the team portion of practice because they kick the reporters out.

[Kelly the Dog]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, yeah, but that's how they do positional drills.  They alternate QB's.

Well, yeah, but usually with the starter starting, during the season. The number two in fact gets surprisingly little work.

[Deep2Moulds46]

1 minute ago, nucci said:

then we should do this every week. You just mentioned each QB tendencies....you don't think Titans know this

You can't do this every week. 
You have to make your starting QB available to the media. Teams also don't like to have QB controversies, and that's what you would be inviting if you played yo-yo from game to game. 

this is a rare instance where there's a concussion protocol that allows the Bills to play this extra close to the vest. it's not reasonable to do this every week, because teams would call BS if the Bills were like "We don't know who we are going to start, even though both guys are healthy!"

[jkeerie]

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

That is true, and thanks for the clarification. Although, for example, the defense in the drill didn't have enough DBs in there and while about to snap, Josh was making sure they had enough, which indicates they were trying to run plays. Plus the relevant point is they lined up with the first offense receivers and Josh was out there.

Yes...and you are correct that Josh is taking first snaps in the drills.  Apparently, drills do involve running plays which would make sense when you think about it, especially for oline and dline.  When I think of drills, I think of them just tossing the ball around, but there is more to it than that.

[nucci]

1 minute ago, Deep2Moulds46 said:

When you have 2 Qbs who play completely different, then it makes a big difference. 

QB tendencies. Qb target preferences. Josh Allen's running ability. His tendencies to bait pass rushers in and then run around them to get out of the pocket. These are all things that if you don't prepare for, he will make you look silly. And if you do prepare for (and he doesn't play) then you spent time preparing for something that was irrelevant. 

Then we should never name the starter until Saturday night every week...keep teams guessing

1 minute ago, Deep2Moulds46 said:

You can't do this every week. 
You have to make your starting QB available to the media. Teams also don't like to have QB controversies, and that's what you would be inviting if you played yo-yo from game to game. 

this is a rare instance where there's a concussion protocol that allows the Bills to play this extra close to the vest. it's not reasonable to do this every week, because teams would call BS if the Bills were like "We don't know who we are going to start, even though both guys are healthy!"

I just don't see the big advantage. We will run the same offense

[CaptnCoke11]

4 minutes ago, nucci said:

 

I just don't see the big advantage. We will run the same offense

Not even close 

[nucci]

Just now, CaptnCoke11 said:

Not even close 

so we are going to run a completely different offense?  When Barkley practices during the week, Bills change all the calls and plays? 

[Wayne Cubed]

5 minutes ago, nucci said:

I just don't see the big advantage. We will run the same offense

I mean all you have to do is look how the Patriots played Allen vs Barkley... Which they played them differently defensively.

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Not even close 

It’s the same offense. The game plan will change, but no one is installing a new offense for a backup QB. 

[nucci]

Just now, Wayne Cubed said:

I mean all you have to do is look how the Patriots played Allen vs Barkley... Which they played them differently defensively.

ok but was it difficult for them to do this? They didn't prepare for Barkley yet still had success against him

[Deep2Moulds46]

4 minutes ago, nucci said:

Then we should never name the starter until Saturday night every week...keep teams guessing

I just don't see the big advantage. We will run the same offense

*sigh*
I'll try one more time and then I give up. 

1) You can't do this every week. Teams need a reason to think there is an actual reason the backup will play. At full health, there's no reason to do that. Allen being in concussion protocol gives the Bills a rare instance where they can keep their cards close to the vest, either way.  If you just arbitrarily say "We aren't naming a QB until Saturday" nobody will believe you. Or....if they do...you have just created an unnecessary Qb controversy. It's not realistic. 

2) I'm sorry you don't see it as an advantage. But player tendencies, especially at a QB positon...ESPECIALLY when you have someone like Josh Allen who is so reliant on mobility....creates unique defensive gameplans. 

If you call a play where Beasley runs a slant, John Brown Runs a post and Zay Jones runs an out........yes, those routes will be the same no matter who the QB is. But Barkley might get rid of the ball quicker than Allen. Allen might only read half field while Barkley reads full? Barkley might get through his progressions faster where Allen (who ran for 100 yards in multiple games last year) could bail out and run. 

Defenses spend all week gameplanning, and a large portion of that is tendencies. 

 

[jkeerie]

In truth...if Josh plays...I'm going to be holding my breath if he does take off and run.  Vrabel uses the same "playbook" on defense as Belichick.  Wouldn't surprise me if they try to knock Josh out again, especially since there were no consequences to the defensive player last Sunday.

[Wayne Cubed]

Just now, nucci said:

ok but was it difficult for them to do this? They didn't prepare for Barkley yet still had success against him

But you are talking about BB tho, one of the greatest defensive minds and literally the best in game adjuster to coach the game.. You can’t assume other coaches would be the same.

[Logic]

Davis Webb call-up to come?

[K-9]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

Davis Webb call-up to come?

I’m guessing The Duke because they are not happy with Zay.