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good read on how the Yanks slowly turned things around by building a better culture in the early 90s - fits in to what McBeane is doing here

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5 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Borderline criminal.  I hope he ends up with the Mets.

Why would you want to sack the current Met coach? The Mets are the surprise team in the league that has made a dramatic and stunning turn around. They were mocked when they acquired Stroman because most experts felt that they should have been dealing off their better players to get prospects. In the recent series with the Nationals in front of pack houses they won the series in closely fought games. Why rock the boat when it has been stabilized? 

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1 minute ago, JohnC said:

Why would you want to sack the current Met coach? The Mets are the surprise team in the league that has made a dramatic and stunning turn around. They were mocked when they acquired Stroman because most experts felt that they should have been dealing off their better players to get prospects. In the recent series with the Nationals in front of pack houses they won the series in closely fought games. Why rock the boat when it has been stabilized? 

 

I will not partake in your jinx attempt.

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3 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I will not partake in your jinx attempt.

You are acting like WGR's Howard Simon. He is a neurotic Met fan when they lose and when they win. For some unique people one's instability can be one's stability. :)

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Thanks for sharing this! 

 

Mattingly was my hero growing up a Yankee fan in the late 80s.  

 

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It's easy to say that team X built their culture and that's why they won after the team has completed a dynastic run. In the end the Yankees acquired talent both in a home grown variety and with volatile mercenaries thought that late 90's run. Talent almost above all else wins games. Yes having a good culture is a positive thing esp for sustained winning. But you can have a great culture but if you fail to develop and acquire talent then its a wrap no matter how professional and good your environment is. 

 

Many of the Phil Jackson coached Lakers and Bulls teams had a very volatile mix of players and personalities who disliked each other and yet they won 11 title included 3 threepeats in a 13 year period. The Yankees Bronx zoo won two titles and the players actively hated each other. In the end it always comes down to finding the right players at the right time putting them in the proper system to have success. 

 

It's two parts intelligence and one part luck (maybe two parts luck in football.) Culture is important I think more winning has been done with good cultures and talent than with just pure volatile talent. But I think comparing one team to another looks a bit silly as in the end talent is what it mostly comes down to. 

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Ah yes, the D3 superstars are here to tell us how culture trumps talent in professional sports.

 

🤯 

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1 hour ago, JohnC said:

You are acting like WGR's Howard Simon. He is a neurotic Met fan when they lose and when they win. For some unique people one's instability can be one's stability. :)

 

Dammit, John!

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3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Don't complain...........if Big Stein wasn't complicit in collusion in the 80's then early 90''s Blue Jays never win a WS.    Broadly, not bidding on coveted pitchers cost the Yankees a lot of top pitching options.  Specifically the Yankees refusing to bid on Jack Morris multiple times is what fueled the investigation into collusion and the 1992 Jays don't win without Jack.

 

 

 

 

Morris, Kirk Gibson, Tim Raines all in their prime would have put in pinstripes in a heartbeat 

 

3 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Costanza calling out Steinbrenner and his massive ego is where I think the organization finally got on the straight and narrow.

 

Frank Constanza did a better job with Big Stein (voice was Larry David) forgetting his son was missing for days.

 

 

3 hours ago, klos63 said:

But while Steinbrenner was suspended, they front office used that time to make smart moves to build the dynasty that George likely wouldn't have gone along with.

 

Every good team made interesting trades that weren’t ripoffs as they couldn’t sign free agents.

 

Yankees showed up as the best teams fizzled, just like Jordan had to wait for the Celtics and then the Pistons to fall apart from old age before he could win

 

 

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6 hours ago, row_33 said:

Yankees showed up as the best teams fizzled, just like Jordan had to wait for the Celtics and then the Pistons to fall apart from old age before he could win

 

It isn't that simple.  The Celtics and Pistons got older and the Bulls around MJ got much better and more mature.  It's never as black and white as people make it out to be.

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8 hours ago, JohnC said:

You are acting like WGR's Howard Simon. He is a neurotic Met fan when they lose and when they win. For some unique people one's instability can be one's stability. :)

 

Because he knows the Mets are a false hope in a lousy division.

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14 hours ago, CardinalScotts said:

the guys who discount culture typically never played athletics. its real yes winning fuels it but winning for a year doesn't build  it. There is much more to it and that the part some guys don't get. Being accountable to each other, playing for  someone besides yourself- if you don't get there you will only practice and play to what your mood/motivation is that day. If you can get where you play for each other not letting the others down motivates you. Again if you haven't been around athletics at a descent level you won't get it. (This is Schopp- Howie and Jeremy not an athletic bone in any of them

 

No different than the culture at companies and why some succeed or fail when seemingly they are doing the exact same things in the ssme markets

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2 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Because he knows the Mets are a false hope in a lousy division.

They did recently turn it around and give their fans some hope not only for the present but also the future. When you have the surge that they did by winning 16 out 18 games (around that #) that isn't a mirage. It is a reality that their recently near capacity crowds appreciate. Winning is winning. Don't sneer at it. Let the neurotic fans like Gugny have a scintilla of hope. He deserves it for all the punishment he has absorbed following them. 

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1 minute ago, JohnC said:

They did recently turn it around and give their fans some hope not only for the present but also the future. When you have the surge that they did by winning 16 out 18 games (around that #) that isn't a mirage. It is a reality that their recently near capacity crowds appreciate. Winning is winning. Don't sneer at it. Let the neurotic fans like Gugny have a scintilla of hope. He deserves it for all the punishment he has absorbed following them. 

 

I'm a Yankees fan. They will ALWAYS be the rejected red headed stepchild in my eyes.

 

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2 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Because he knows the Mets are a false hope in a lousy division.

 

The division is, indeed, lousy.  More importantly, the entire NL is weak with the exception of a couple teams.  That's why they're in the hunt. 

 

It would be nice, however, to play the Orioles 50 times/season like the Yankees do.  Home or away, they're playing in little league fields.

 

The fact of the matter is that the Mets are just as likely to get into the World Series as the Yankees are.

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4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

They did recently turn it around and give their fans some hope not only for the present but also the future. When you have the surge that they did by winning 16 out 18 games (around that #) that isn't a mirage. It is a reality that their recently near capacity crowds appreciate. Winning is winning. Don't sneer at it. Let the neurotic fans like Gugny have a scintilla of hope. He deserves it for all the punishment he has absorbed following them. 

They got a tough stretch the next month or so starting tonight against the Braves. 

 

Interested to see how they do these next 3 games. 

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1 minute ago, Gugny said:

The fact of the matter is that the Mets are just as likely to get into the World Series as the Yankees are.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say there's a 0.0% chance they get past the Dodgers.

 

I know, edgy thoughts are edgy, but that's where I'm at.

 

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1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I'm a Yankees fan. They will ALWAYS be the rejected red headed stepchild in my eyes.

 

Sometimes out of resentment stepchildren go rogue and beat up the unappealing lumpy and bald guy who is now sleeping with their beloved mother. I'm not a Met fan but in the home series with the Nationals the stadium was nearly full of raucous fans for three consecutive nights for three consecutive great games. That's good for baseball and good for the NY rivalry. 

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1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

They got a tough stretch the next month or so starting tonight against the Braves. 

 

Interested to see how they do these next 3 games. 

 

Absolutely. They just have to win series.  Winning game one of every series, to me, is super important.  They took 2-3 against Washington.  They've got a healthy dose of division rivals between now and the first week in September.  In two weeks, they'll either comfortably own the #1 wild card spot, or be completely out of it.

 

Personally, I love that they're playing meaningful (to them) baseball in mid-August.

 

Gotta win game one tonight!

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3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

They got a tough stretch the next month or so starting tonight against the Braves. 

 

Interested to see how they do these next 3 games. 

You make an interesting point. There are a lot of bad teams and some good teams played during a steak. So a lot of the winning streaks don't represent how good a team  actually is. 

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4 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

Gotta have talent to go along with the culture. 

 

Oh hey, Mike Schopp!

 

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15 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

The division is, indeed, lousy.  More importantly, the entire NL is weak with the exception of a couple teams.  That's why they're in the hunt. 

 

It would be nice, however, to play the Orioles 50 times/season like the Yankees do.  Home or away, they're playing in little league fields.

 

The fact of the matter is that the Mets are just as likely to get into the World Series as the Yankees are.

Settle down. You are working yourself into frenzy. Just get on that wave and ride it to wherever it takes you. :)

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17 hours ago, CardinalScotts said:

the guys who discount culture typically never played athletics. its real yes winning fuels it but winning for a year doesn't build  it. There is much more to it and that the part some guys don't get. Being accountable to each other, playing for  someone besides yourself- if you don't get there you will only practice and play to what your mood/motivation is that day. If you can get where you play for each other not letting the others down motivates you. Again if you haven't been around athletics at a descent level you won't get it. (This is Schopp- Howie and Jeremy not an athletic bone in any of them

Played plenty of sports for a lot of years. While there is some truth in this, the best teams I played on had the most talent.  The best football teams I was in were when we had the best qb.  I played with a bunch of great guys but we won’t good enough.  Guys would pump themselves for every practice but we weren’t good enough.  

 

While culture is somewhat important, it is completely overblown.  Did anyone ever question the culture of the Jauron and Gailey teams?  A bunch of hard working, good guys.  Guess what? They weren’t good enough because they didn’t have the talent or qb.  This isn’t high school football.  The Cowboys of 90s were terrible people.  Read the bad guys won about the 86 Mets (one of my favorite  route teams ever).  The Pats won SBs with Aaron Hernandez.  Our own Bills of the 90s weren’t  exactly angels.  They won because they had an insane amount of talent.  

 

And those Yankees spent a ton of money on a sport without a salary cap. 

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6 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Settle down. You are working yourself into frenzy. Just get on that wave and ride it to wherever it takes you. :)

 

Yankees aren't built for postseason - and they haven't been for over a decade.  Their starters won't get 5-6 runs in support against playoff teams.  But their starters will continue to give up plenty of runs.  The Astros have almost as many HRs as the Yankees do.  But the Astros also have pitching.

 

Last year, I think they were primed to win it all - even with the Red Sox going on the tear they did.  Had they kept Joe Girardi, I believe the Yankees would have won the World Series last year.

 

With their subpar starting pitching and the figurehead Boone "managing" games, I just don't think they stand a chance.  Shame on them.

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13 hours ago, inaugural balls said:

 

Yep

 

Ask the Red Sox

Yeah, those scrappy Red Sox who only had a 227 million dollar payroll.  What a bunch of underdogs!!!

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