Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: That draft class was objectively NOT a disaster. We have at minimum, THREE solid starters from the draft, including one of the best CB in the NFL. Yes, we didn't get Mahomes, but if you're going to tell me you saw that season coming from him coming out of college, I'm calling bull####. How do you evaluate a draft? do you consider if other teams got 3 starters also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 19 minutes ago, Chemical said: Evaluating a trade based on what your team gave up vs. what your team received is part of sports. And yes, you are saying Mahomes wouldn't have been good here. That's exactly what you're implying, then you say you're not but you already said it. I can understand that rationale if he was just a good QB in his first season with around 25TDs and 3400 yards, but he had one of the best seasons of ALL TIME. That doesn't happen only because you have a good coach and skill players, you also have to be amazing, watch the tape. Yes I can say that and it still be obvious. I'm pointing out the obvious and trying to convey that I'm not nitpicking every draft pick, just one of the worst trades ever. I never said Mahomes wouldn't have been good here, I'm saying that I don't believe he would have played to the level that he is in KC. There's a big difference there. We didn't have the offense good enough for him to be that good in 2017 or 2018. He may still have been good but not KC level. You're still not getting the fact that he has a coach with a good QB system which plays a big part in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Just now, Chemical said: How do you evaluate a draft? do you consider if other teams got 3 starters also? By how the guys you draft perform. Try to follow along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Just now, Chemical said: It doesn't matter if I did or didn't predict it, and I've never claimed that. You're acting as if it does. You, and every other Mahomes-hindsight guy, are obnoxious about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Just now, oldmanfan said: You see how your guys did. I can nitpick every team’s drafts and make a case they did terribly because they took one guy over another. And comparing a first round pick to a fifth with Mahomes vs. Peterman is absurd. They didn’t draft Peterman to be a franchise guy. Yet he was the opening day starter less than one year ago and taking valuable first team reps from Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Chemical said: How do you evaluate a draft? do you consider if other teams got 3 starters also? Yeah, man. In today's NFL, you HAVE to draft well because of the salary structure for rookies. If you don't, you're dead in the water. 3 QUALITY starters in a draft is a VERY successful draft, regardless of whether or not your 20/20 thinks it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Just now, Joe in Winslow said: You're acting as if it does. You, and every other Mahomes-hindsight guy, are obnoxious about it. No I'm not. I've clearly stated I didn't have an opinion about Mahomes and even if I did it wouldn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Just now, Chemical said: Yet he was the opening day starter less than one year ago and taking valuable first team reps from Allen Which has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Smith took valuable first team reps away from Mahomes in his rookie year too by your logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Just now, Joe in Winslow said: Yeah, man. In today's NFL, you HAVE to draft well because of the salary structure for rookies. If you don't, you're dead in the water. 3 QUALITY starters in a draft is a VERY successful draft, regardless of whether or not your 20/20 thinks it is. I'm saying other teams also got 3 starters, probably most teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Just now, Chemical said: No I'm not. I've clearly stated I didn't have an opinion about Mahomes and even if I did it wouldn't matter. In the context of this conversation, you're claiming that not taking Mahomes was a disaster. But if you're being honest, you say you didn't have an opinion on him. So, AT THE BLOODY TIME, you're willing to roll the dice on the guy that you admit having NO knowledge on? Yeah, man. Try and be honest with yourself before demanding it of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: Which has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Smith took valuable first team reps away from Mahomes in his rookie year too by your logic. Yeah but it's Nathan Peterman we are talking about. Why does it seem like I'm not allowed to use the on the field results in my arguments with you people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Chemical said: I'm saying other teams also got 3 starters, probably most teams Did those other teams pick up their #1 LT and #1 CB out of the draft? ALSO two valuable positions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Just now, Joe in Winslow said: In the context of this conversation, you're claiming that not taking Mahomes was a disaster. But if you're being honest, you say you didn't have an opinion on him. So, AT THE BLOODY TIME, you're willing to roll the dice on the guy that you admit having NO knowledge on? Yeah, man. Try and be honest with yourself before demanding it of others. Logic is sometimes a scarce commodity around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: In the context of this conversation, you're claiming that not taking Mahomes was a disaster. But if you're being honest, you say you didn't have an opinion on him. So, AT THE BLOODY TIME, you're willing to roll the dice on the guy that you admit having NO knowledge on? Yeah, man. Try and be honest with yourself before demanding it of others. My pre-draft opinion has no value or affect on anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Chemical said: Yeah but it's Nathan Peterman we are talking about. Why does it seem like I'm not allowed to use the on the field results in my arguments with you people? Peterman was a bad call and Beane admitted they should have brought in a vet when McCarron didn’t work out. Peterman has nothing to do with any point you’re trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Chemical said: My pre-draft opinion has no value or affect on anything. Ok, chief. It's clear that this conversation is about one thing and one thing only: your desire to be "right" at all costs. Well guess what... you calling the 2017 draft a DISASTER is wrong. Period. It's undebatable. Edited July 27, 2019 by Joe in Winslow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Just now, Joe in Winslow said: Ok, chief. It's clear that this conversation is about one thing and one thing only: your desire to be "right" at all costs. Well guess what: you calling the 2017 draft a DISASTER is wrong. Period. It's undebatable. I disagree, that's why I'm debating it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Yeah, man. In today's NFL, you HAVE to draft well because of the salary structure for rookies. If you don't, you're dead in the water. 3 QUALITY starters in a draft is a VERY successful draft, regardless of whether or not your 20/20 thinks it is. If we end up with one elite player (Tre), and two good long term starters (Milano and Dawkins). Then it is a very good draft. Even if Zay washes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Just now, Chemical said: I disagree, that's why I'm debating it. Let's talk about what constitutes a disastrous draft: Taking Eric Flowers or Aaron Maybin or trading two picks to take a WR, That's a disastrous draft. What the Bills did in 2017 is not. 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: If we end up with one elite player (Tre), and two good long term starters (Milano and Dawkins). Then it is a very good draft. Even if Zay washes out. Exactly, it's ANYTHING BUT a "disaster," no matter how much Chemical wants to believe it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 9 minutes ago, Chemical said: My pre-draft opinion has no value or affect on anything. On this we can agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Peterman was a bad call and Beane admitted they should have brought in a vet when McCarron didn’t work out. Peterman has nothing to do with any point you’re trying to make. Someone started a thread about the 2017 draft. If you don't want to talk about Peterman don't bring him up. He was part of the 2017 draft class Just now, Augie said: On this we can agree! Cool, hopefully this will end that "argument" that the Bills 2017 draft was good because I personally didn't know Mahomes would be good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chemical said: Someone started a thread about the 2017 draft. If you don't want to talk about Peterman don't bring him up. He was part of the 2017 draft class Cool, hopefully this will end that "argument" that the Bills 2017 draft was good because I personally didn't know Mahomes would be good Peterman didn’t work out. They got a an elite CB, really good OLB, starting LT, and starting WR. Or do we now only grade drafts on 5th round QBs? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Chemical said: Someone started a thread about the 2017 draft. If you don't want to talk about Peterman don't bring him up. He was part of the 2017 draft class He was a 5th round QB. What exactly did you expect? Who did we take in the 7th? Yeah, who cares about that crap shoot? You take shots and hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Let's talk about what constitutes a disastrous draft: Taking Eric Flowers or Aaron Maybin or trading two picks to take a WR, That's a disastrous draft. What the Bills did in 2017 is not. Exactly, it's ANYTHING BUT a "disaster," no matter how much Chemical wants to believe it is. Wait remind me when the Bills may have traded up for another receiver, one that had a lot of drops and an embarrassing naked video, I think it was pretty recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, Chemical said: Someone started a thread about the 2017 draft. If you don't want to talk about Peterman don't bring him up. He was part of the 2017 draft class Cool, hopefully this will end that "argument" that the Bills 2017 draft was good because I personally didn't know Mahomes would be good Logic is not your specialty, I’m guessing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Just now, Augie said: Logic is not your specialty, I’m guessing? Here they come, the personal insults. Keep em coming guys it really helps your argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Just now, Chemical said: Wait remind me when the Bills may have traded up for another receiver, one that had a lot of drops and an embarrassing naked video, I think it was pretty recently And now we're getting a sense of Chemical's ACTUAL objection here. He doesn't like McDermott, Beane, or both. Let's deal in honesty here, buddy. Your Mahomes hindsight is just cover for your ACTUAL feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 12 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Exactly, it's ANYTHING BUT a "disaster," no matter how much Chemical wants to believe it is. Still an "if" on Dawkins though. I am encouraged but he has to prove it this year. I am not expecting him to be a top 10 left tackle (in the way that Cordy Glenn at his best was) but think he can be a solid long term starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: Still an "if" on Dawkins though. I am encouraged but he has to prove it this year. I am not expecting him to be a top 10 left tackle (in the way that Cordy Glenn at his best was) but think he can be a solid long term starter. I am bullish on Dawkins. I think he'll be back to his rookie form with a legitimate LG next to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Eventually people will have to stop using the "yea but Mahomes and Watson would have sucked in Buffalo" argument. If you’re suggesting they’d be just as good here, I’d like to hear the argument why because nothing about their respective experiences in KC and Houston would be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Just now, Joe in Winslow said: And now we're getting a sense of Chemical's ACTUAL objection here. He doesn't like McDermott, Beane, or both. Let's deal in honesty here, buddy. Your Mahomes hindsight is just cover for your ACTUAL feelings. What's wrong with being critical of decisions? I only talk about personnel or on the field decisions and whether or not they are going to lead to a superbowl. You're the one making it personal. You and Augie, Try bringing the conversation back to the draft and if you honestly think getting 3 "starters!" every year will lead to a superbowl victory in the future when other teams are adding definitively better players. Just now, K-9 said: If you’re suggesting they’d be just as good here, I’d like to hear the argument why because nothing about their respective experiences in KC and Houston would be the same. No one said that and it doesn't matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Just now, Chemical said: when other teams are adding definitively better players. Except they're not. 2017 nets us AT A MINIMUM 3 starters, one of whom is top 5 at his position and could easily net us FOUR starters. If you call that a disaster, I'd say it's more of a "you" problem than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 what did other teams get? That's the problem, you're not looking at other teams results. You follow the Bills so you're happy with their "starters!" when each team has their own favorite players you never give a second thought to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, Chemical said: No one said that and it doesn't matter If it doesn’t matter, then why did GunnerBill suggest we should not to argue that neither Mahomes or Watson wouldn’t have been as good in Buffalo as they are in their respective situations in KC and Houston? Besides, I asked GunnerBill for his input as l like his logical responses to things, but thanks for chiming in with your keen insight as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 1 minute ago, K-9 said: If it doesn’t matter, then why did GunnerBill suggest we should not to argue that neither Mahomes or Watson wouldn’t have been as good in Buffalo as they are in their respective situations in KC and Houston? Besides, I asked GunnerBill for his input as l like his logical responses to things, but thanks for chiming in with your keen insight as well. He was replying to someone who made that argument thats why he said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Chemical said: He was replying to someone who made that argument thats why he said that. If it's referring to me, I never said he wouldn't be good here. I said he probably wouldn't be KC level good. Big difference there Edited July 27, 2019 by Buffalo03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 12 minutes ago, Chemical said: what did other teams get? That's the problem, you're not looking at other teams results. You follow the Bills so you're happy with their "starters!" when each team has their own favorite players you never give a second thought to. You're making assumptions that you shouldn't, and being a richard about it. We get it, you don't like to be called out on your nonsense. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Just now, Buffalo03 said: If it's referring to me, I never said he wouldn't be good here. I said he wouldn't be KC level good. Big difference there ok, true, but that's what I mean when I say it doesn't matter. Why even bring it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, Chemical said: He was replying to someone who made that argument thats why he said that. Does that mean I can’t be interested in his reasons why Mahomes and Watson would have been just as good in Buffalo? I maintain there is no way that would have been the case, so I’d like to get his reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said: You're making assumptions that you shouldn't, and being a richard about it. We get it, you don't like to be called out on your nonsense. Get over it. hmm a personal insult instead of examples to support your argument. Not surprised Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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