Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 28 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said: That's just completely wrong. He can't have a plan when ownership, be it Ralph/Russ or Pegula. Nobody ever backed him and clearly defined how much control he had. Pegula completely screwed him. He built a team for one scheme then was thrown Rex, and again roles were never clearly defined. You can't have a plan, or look like you're building something when you're undercut left and right. I find this to be an odd response, as you seem to be a guy who doesn't make excuses for other people (mcDermott, allen, whoever) failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 15 hours ago, Doc said: Hindsight is great. All these people saying "we should have taken Mahomes or Watson" never said a word about them before the draft. That is not completely true Doc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 10 minutes ago, vincec said: At this point it looks like an average draft to me. The Bills got two solid starters - White and Milano and two borderline starters- Dawkins and Jones. Now if Dawkins or Jones can develop into solid starters then it would improve in my mind. If they both become solid starters, then it's a great draft. I think calling White "solid" is a little unfair. He is borderline elite. Milano is solid. He could even be better than solid. Dawkins and Jones both need to improve. At the moment Dawkins is in the "serviceable starter" category and Zay is a "replacement level" starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 12 hours ago, John from Riverside said: He said they were "bad" picks They were not John, some players are decent or even "good," but they were bad draft choices. MaGahee, Whitner, and a slew of other Bills draft selections come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 15 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said: That is not completely true Doc. Or true at all, in fact. There were lots of poster on this forum who wanted one or the other of them. The one who was less popular here was Trubisky. 14 hours ago, Golden Goat said: Watson led the league in sacks taken last year by a lot. Behind our line, he'd be retired (if not expired) by now. Except our line was better than Houston's. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessYaDigg Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 16 hours ago, Buffalo03 said: For the love of God, get over the whole Watson and Mahomes thing. We have no idea how Josh Allen is gonna turn up. We still made excellent picks in Tre'Davious and Dion Dawkins as well. The jury is still out on Zay. I believe this is his make or break season. He did have a decent 2nd season though catching 7TDs but yes, the 2017 draft is looking good I agree with you. It did frustrate me that we missed out on both of those QBs, but if Josh Allen happens to be better than both of them, then the risk of waiting for last year's QB draft class will be worth it. Patience will definitely pay off for McD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Ol Dirty B said: That's just completely wrong. He can't have a plan when ownership, be it Ralph/Russ or Pegula. Nobody ever backed him and clearly defined how much control he had. Pegula completely screwed him. He built a team for one scheme then was thrown Rex, and again roles were never clearly defined. You can't have a plan, or look like you're building something when you're undercut left and right. What Whaley lacked was discipline ODB. He gave away the store in trades and gave out inflated contracts time after time. Imo, this is a good part of the reason why he couldn't get another job. The good GMs need to be patient, shrewd people. I can't imagine a GM doing a good job without these qualities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: I think calling White "solid" is a little unfair. He is borderline elite. Milano is solid. He could even be better than solid. Dawkins and Jones both need to improve. At the moment Dawkins is in the "serviceable starter" category and Zay is a "replacement level" starter. Gotta remember with Zay he went from having Tyrod... to Peterman... to Rookie Allen. Hard to build chemistry with 3 vastly different players. I'm hopeful there will be some significant improvement this year. He definitely looks like hes trying to play the part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said: What Whaley lacked was discipline ODB. He gave away the store in trades and gave out inflated contracts time after time. Imo, this is a good part of the reason why he couldn't get another job. The good GMs need to be patient, shrewd people. I can't imagine a GM doing a good job without these qualities. Willing to trade future firsts for non-QBs is a mistake - unless you already know what you have in your QB. Other trades were just... strange? Bryce Brown for a 4th? Why? I didn't feel like he was any better than anyone just generally available. So the 2015 1st and 4th were gone before the 2014 season even began. Also - we were 6-10 in 2013... why trade all of your 2015 assets for a likely non-playoff team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Circlethewagon8404 said: I agree with you. It did frustrate me that we missed out on both of those QBs, but if Josh Allen happens to be better than both of them, then the risk of waiting for last year's QB draft class will be worth it. Patience will definitely pay off for McD. Yeah, I understand people's gripe about missing out on both if those guys but he was saying that Tre'Davious was a bad pick because we should have taken the QBs and we didn't. He states Milano was the only good pick because of that. Tre'Davious was still an excellent pick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Bill from NYC said: What Whaley lacked was discipline ODB. He gave away the store in trades and gave out inflated contracts time after time. Imo, this is a good part of the reason why he couldn't get another job. The good GMs need to be patient, shrewd people. I can't imagine a GM doing a good job without these qualities. He also traded Kelvin Sheppard for Jerry Hughes and an injured Kiko for Lesean McCoy, 2 of the key players on the team still. And I do think there is a double standard here with elevating the current regime - the Benjamin trade for 2 draft picks, trading up for Zay, and trading up Edmunds (who I like but it still is a non QBs). Also the real real test will be is when we have to pay White and some of these young players. Everyone says how bad the Dareus contract was but he got paid because he was an all pro and one of the best young DTs in the game. Mario was an elite player here for a few years. Right now, we don’t have many elite players so of course the team cap is good shape. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 17 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: He also traded Kelvin Sheppard for Jerry Hughes and an injured Kiko for Lesean McCoy, 2 of the key players on the team still. And I do think there is a double standard here with elevating the current regime - the Benjamin trade for 2 draft picks, trading up for Zay, and trading up Edmunds (who I like but it still is a non QBs). Also the real real test will be is when we have to pay White and some of these young players. Everyone says how bad the Dareus contract was but he got paid because he was an all pro and one of the best young DTs in the game. Mario was an elite player here for a few years. Right now, we don’t have many elite players so of course the team cap is good shape. i don't think anyone thinks the contract was bad...at that point he had earned it. it was the way dareus acted after that seemed to anger the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 16 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: He also traded Kelvin Sheppard for Jerry Hughes and an injured Kiko for Lesean McCoy, 2 of the key players on the team still. I don't deny the above but even at that, he threw a ton of money at McCoy unnecessarily. Did these moves push the team to the next level? And as far as Kiko and McCoy, I don't know how much McCoy has left in the tank, do you? Maybe a tad less than Kiko.....who knows? I am one who thinks that the trade for Sammy was utterly ridiculous and said this from day 1. To use that many picks on a wide receiver while having no quarterback is impossible to defend but this is jmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Bill from NYC said: I don't deny the above but even at that, he threw a ton of money at McCoy unnecessarily. Did these moves push the team to the next level? And as far as Kiko and McCoy, I don't know how much McCoy has left in the tank, do you? Maybe a tad less than Kiko.....who knows? I am one who thinks that the trade for Sammy was utterly ridiculous and said this from day 1. To use that many picks on a wide receiver while having no quarterback is impossible to defend but this is jmo. Well, they tried it for EJ. Obviously it was the wrong move. I generally agree you don’t trade up for a non qb in the draft but Sammy was one of the best college receivers I have ever seen. I do like that he went all in for his qb. I won’t hate if we went all in for a stud for Allen to throw to now (Antonio Brown). and Kiko has sucked for the last 5 years. That trade was a flat out robbery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Well, they tried it for EJ. Obviously it was the wrong move. I generally agree you don’t trade up for a non qb in the draft but Sammy was one of the best college receivers I have ever seen. I do like that he went all in for his qb. I won’t hate if we went all in for a stud for Allen to throw to now (Antonio Brown). and Kiko has sucked for the last 5 years. That trade was a flat out robbery. The trade itself (sans the new contract) was good no doubt CB, but I don't know if am willing to say that Kiko sucks, as easy as it is to dislike him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said: The trade itself (sans the new contract) was good no doubt CB, but I don't know if am willing to say that Kiko sucks, as easy as it is to dislike him. He started every game for the worst defense in the nfl. His only skill is cheap shots. He had one of the greatest starts of any Bills rookie I can remember and has been an average to below average player since. McCoy is fading (they could have traded him and gotten some value for him a few years ago) but he is a borderline HOFer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: He started every game for the worst defense in the nfl. His only skill is cheap shots. He had one of the greatest starts of any Bills rookie I can remember and has been an average to below average player since. He actually had 2 great games and, I think, one good one. Other than that, he over-pursued and got eaten alive. And this was before he left the Bills and simply became a dirty piece of *****. I never, ever got the Alonso love from Bills fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Well, they tried it for EJ. Obviously it was the wrong move. I generally agree you don’t trade up for a non qb in the draft but Sammy was one of the best college receivers I have ever seen. I do like that he went all in for his qb. I won’t hate if we went all in for a stud for Allen to throw to now (Antonio Brown). and Kiko has sucked for the last 5 years. That trade was a flat out robbery. My issue was the price - i felt the extra first to move up was excessive. The other issue is quality of players at the position. There were probably 5 WRs in the top 25 players in that years draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, dneveu said: My issue was the price - i felt the extra first to move up was excessive. The other issue is quality of players at the position. There were probably 5 WRs in the top 25 players in that years draft. Along with a 4th rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 23 hours ago, BillsfaninSB said: As training camp approaches I was thinking about personnel and how the 4 main picks from the 2017 draft could play a crucial part in this team’s success. If Jones takes it to another level and Dawkins and Milano continue to progress, I have to give McDermott a lot a credit for his first draft while strapped with a lame duck GM. I can understand if many see whiffing on Mahommes as unforgivable, but that aside, the HC may have done really well for his 1st draft and makes me optimistic that he gets it. We don’t know yet if it is a great draft but given the previous regimes track record it’s lookin pretty good. hopefully, but i wasnt a huge fan of drafting Dawkins. Im just hoping for solid out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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