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Bills 2017 Draft - It Might Be Really Good

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1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 

You literally were that person when the Bills had Whaley.  

 

Whaley earned it with the following:

 

1) lack of coherent planning.

2) complete mismanagement of the draft

3) a visible, tangible misunderstanding of how to NOT overpay for underperforming players, thereby leaving the cap in a shambles and the team with a 9 win ceiling.

 

By my metric, mcbeane are already ahead in two and possibly all three categories.

 

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Funny to read this when there is another thread talking about how good the 17 draft was.  

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6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yeah, ODJ is a little cheap shot punk.  He’s the guy that sucker punches and runs away.  

 

Which is why I have no respect for the man. None at all. 

51 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

Chemical... committed to out-miserable scottlaw on a daily basis...

 

They can complete each other’s sentences. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Whaley earned it with the following:

 

1) lack of coherent planning.

2) complete mismanagement of the draft

3) a visible, tangible misunderstanding of how to NOT overpay for underperforming players, thereby leaving the cap in a shambles and the team with a 9 win ceiling.

 

By my metric, mcbeane are already ahead in two and possibly all three categories.

 

Yet, we have the same exact record after 2 years.    And we just paid Star, a one dimension player, and Murphy who had one good season, injury issues and PEDs issues.  

Edited by C.Biscuit97
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Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yet, we have the same exact record after 2 years.  

 

With a far more sound cap, a franchise QB and a better overall talent level.

 

Expecting big things VERY soon.

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7 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

With a far more sound cap, a franchise QB and a better overall talent level.

 

Expecting big things VERY soon.

This may or may not be true. It is all yet to be determined, you know that right Joe? 

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4 hours ago, Chemical said:

 

 

Not when he could've been Watson or Mahomes. It's not asking too much either, they went out of their way to screw it up. We needed a QB, take a QB, then take another one and another until you have a good one, then take another one that might be better.

 

Zay Jones get a pass from fans for some reason I'll never understand. OBJ makes an arrogant comment in an interview and everyone here hates him. Meanwhile, Zay Jones is on video trying to jump through a window naked and everyone loves him.

 

And then you'll have a QB and another QB and another QB and no idea if any of them are any good.   Explain to me how you're ever going to develop them with the limited practice time you get in the off season in today's NFL.  If as you suggest 3 years running you take a QB and from the sound of it I'd assume you're advocating using a high pick each time if you think you want someone who has a good chance to develop into a franchise QB.  So by now would have 3 QB's all drafted high so can't risk waiving any of them, when wil lthey get playing time.

 

Allan certainly didn't light it up last year so guess based on your thinking we should have crafted another this year. Best one available when we picked would have been Haskins or maybe Drew Lock in the 2nd and maybe kept Peterman.  So now in training camp I'd assume you'd alternate time with 1st team and who starts pre-season games.  Great way to make sure near of them is any way ready.  Assume Allen with a year more experience wins out and starts, with lack of 100% playing time he may have had another so-so year.  And who would they have learned from?  Or do you plan to carry a 4th vet QB to teach the three "rookies" what's going on.

 

Lot to read hear, make it easy sum it up in two words; Dumb idea!  And how do i know that, because teams rarely do that.  I could go with maybe every third year as by then you'll know if the last guy looks decent or not, maybe 2nd year, but anything sooner than that like the every year merry-go-round is just a waste of picks. So assuming you had picked one in 2017 I wouldn't want to pick another in 2018, plus wouldn't have even had the extra picks from all the trades to move up.

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1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said:

Chemical... committed to out-miserable scottlaw on a daily basis...

 

Joe six pack...Committed to commenting about other commenter’s comments and that’s all ever. 

 

 

44 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

And then you'll have a QB and another QB and another QB and no idea if any of them are any good.   Explain to me how you're ever going to develop them with the limited practice time you get in the off season in today's NFL.  If as you suggest 3 years running you take a QB and from the sound of it I'd assume you're advocating using a high pick each time if you think you want someone who has a good chance to develop into a franchise QB.  So by now would have 3 QB's all drafted high so can't risk waiving any of them, when wil lthey get playing time.

 

Allan certainly didn't light it up last year so guess based on your thinking we should have crafted another this year. Best one available when we picked would have been Haskins or maybe Drew Lock in the 2nd and maybe kept Peterman.  So now in training camp I'd assume you'd alternate time with 1st team and who starts pre-season games.  Great way to make sure near of them is any way ready.  Assume Allen with a year more experience wins out and starts, with lack of 100% playing time he may have had another so-so year.  And who would they have learned from?  Or do you plan to carry a 4th vet QB to teach the three "rookies" what's going on.

 

Lot to read hear, make it easy sum it up in two words; Dumb idea!  And how do i know that, because teams rarely do that.  I could go with maybe every third year as by then you'll know if the last guy looks decent or not, maybe 2nd year, but anything sooner than that like the every year merry-go-round is just a waste of picks. So assuming you had picked one in 2017 I wouldn't want to pick another in 2018, plus wouldn't have even had the extra picks from all the trades to move up.

 

I would take a QB with every pick. I would also not run the ball ever, not once ever all season just as a nice change of pace. 

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Posted (edited)

Ever notice how every player on every other team is so much better than what we have? Weird, huh?

Edited by PromoTheRobot
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6 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

For the love of God, get over the whole Watson and Mahomes thing. We have no idea how Josh Allen is gonna turn up. We still made excellent picks in Tre'Davious and Dion Dawkins as well. The jury is still out on Zay. I believe this is his make or break season. He did have a decent 2nd season though catching 7TDs but yes, the 2017 draft is looking good

Not sure you can call Dawkins an excellent pick unless you totally ignore how he played last season. And you can't do that.

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7 hours ago, Chemical said:

Milano is the only good pick. We traded the pick that was Mahomes, but at least we got a QB in the 5th!

Go back to watching tennis.  It is what you know about.

36 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Every notice how every player on every other team is so much better than what we have? Weird, huh?

Especially some of our players when they get to another team.

6 hours ago, Chemical said:

 

 

Not when he could've been Watson or Mahomes. It's not asking too much either, they went out of their way to screw it up. We needed a QB, take a QB, then take another one and another until you have a good one, then take another one that might be better.

 

Zay Jones get a pass from fans for some reason I'll never understand. OBJ makes an arrogant comment in an interview and everyone here hates him. Meanwhile, Zay Jones is on video trying to jump through a window naked and everyone loves him.

Watson is almost as over rated as Prescott.

6 hours ago, Chemical said:

 

 

Not when he could've been Watson or Mahomes. It's not asking too much either, they went out of their way to screw it up. We needed a QB, take a QB, then take another one and another until you have a good one, then take another one that might be better.

 

Zay Jones get a pass from fans for some reason I'll never understand. OBJ makes an arrogant comment in an interview and everyone here hates him. Meanwhile, Zay Jones is on video trying to jump through a window naked and everyone loves him.

Because Zay has mental health issues and OBJ is just an a$$****.

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6 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah, everyone loves Jones. :rolleyes:

We did see him naked.

6 hours ago, Chemical said:

 

That's not what those words mean (revisionist history)

 

The consensus I'm getting here is you're all allowed to say it's a really good draft because of the guys we got, but I'm not allowed to say it might not be good because of the guys we didn't get?

 

I wanted watson, and it wouldn't matter what I thought, it was a mistake to pass on either.

You might say it could have been better but you cant say its bad because we didnt get somebody.

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6 hours ago, Chemical said:

 

Well we are discussing the 2017 draft. Stop making me repeat myself Doctor

What did you say again?

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

 

Which is why I have no respect for the man. None at all. 

 

They can complete each other’s sentences. 

He is quite caustic isnt he.

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I'm not writing off Dawkins and Jones yet, but this needs to be a very good year for both.  It's simpler matter for Dawkins, who is the presumptive starter at LT and is going to get 95% of the offensive snaps this season barring injury, It's a bit more of a challenge for Zay Jones who has to share receptions with John Brown and Cole Beasley, in addition to a developing Robert Foster.

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4 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

I'm not writing off Dawkins and Jones yet, but this needs to be a very good year for both.  It's simpler matter for Dawkins, who is the presumptive starter at LT and is going to get 95% of the offensive snaps this season barring injury, It's a bit more of a challenge for Zay Jones who has to share receptions with John Brown and Cole Beasley, in addition to a developing Robert Foster.

 

beware the sleestak!

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Chemical said:

 

 

Not when he could've been Watson or Mahomes. It's not asking too much either, they went out of their way to screw it up. We needed a QB, take a QB, then take another one and another until you have a good one, then take another one that might be better.

 

Zay Jones get a pass from fans for some reason I'll never understand. OBJ makes an arrogant comment in an interview and everyone here hates him. Meanwhile, Zay Jones is on video trying to jump through a window naked and everyone loves him.

 

No one is giving Zay a pass. If he doesn't progress this season, he won't be around long. But many of us saw progression in his game last year and feel he gets another year to prove it. So, we'll wait and see, hoping he takes that next step (year three can be a big jump for some WRs). But to not understand why people like Zay and not OBJ seems a little delusional. With OBJ, it's not just one arrogant comment in one article, it's many comments and many articles, and interviews, and actions over and over again that make him seem arrogant, a diva, a me-first kind of guy. And I think the Bills/Giants game that another poster referred to was the game where he threw punches at Bills players. Twice in that same game, he punched a Bills player on the field and then ran and hid behind some of his teammates. That is both unsportsmanlike and cowardly at the same time. If it was just one comment, one time from OBJ, it would be forgiven by most, but he has continually displayed behavior that a lot of people just don't like or find mature. With Zay, however, it was just one mistake. It was a good kid making one bad decision. From everything I can tell of the situation, it wasn't mental health issues or some prima dona tantrum, it looks like he tried synthetic marajuana. Some people react like that to it. There was the other former Bill (I think a lineman), who was found out walking in a field naked after using it, etc. Zay is a good kid who made a mistake. He is all about the team and has not shown any other bad behavior, outside of that one incident, he's well like in the locker room, etc. With OBJ, the behavior has been consistent. To compare the two in that way is a huge stretch. And call it loser mentality, if you will, but some of us fans still want to like the players we root for and we root for our guys to get better. And you can have the best of both worlds. Look at the 90s Bills. We loved those guys and they were winners. They weren't choir boys, but they were all about team, community, family, etc.

 

And its been said over and over again, you have to take into account where the Bills were at the 2017 draft. Lame duck GM, new coach who doesn't know his team yet and who will basically be drafting players without a true GM cohort, in a draft that was, by most accounts, not a good QB draft, with possibly the best QB draft in years coming the following season. You may have liked and wanted Mahomes, but it should also be understandable why the Bills didn't want to take a shot at their franchise QB under all of those circumstances that year. At that time, it probably seemed like the smartest move was to wait for the following year to go after their QB.

 

And some in this thread have already inducted Mahomes into the Hall of Fame. Let's at least see how his second year as starter goes first, shall we. I too think he's going to be a very good QB for years to come, but if you think he's going to throw for 5,000 yards and 50 TDs every year...well, it just ain't going to happen. Only 11 times have QBs thrown for more than 5,000 yards (Brees the only one to do it more than once) and only 3 times has a QB thrown for 50 TDs (Peyton and Brady the other two). To think Mahomes is going to continue at last year's pace, just isn't realistic. If he did, he's automatically the greatest QB of all time, without question. So, he's almost guaranteed to take at least a little step back. If we're really going to compare Mahomes and Allen, we have to see at least two more seasons to even start to make a fair assessment. So, there doesn't seem to be any point to moaning about it now. There just isn't enough evidence to make any type of definitive statement about it currently, so why keep harping on it?

 

As to the OP and the 2017 draft, yes, White and Milano look to be great picks. I still think Dawkins was too. He played really well his rookie year, with solid vets around him. Last year, he admitted that he took his foot off the pedal a bit (thinking he'd arrived) and there was absolutely no leadership in the OL room to not let him do that. Plus, he was playing next to weaker or inexperienced talent, which doesn't help. You can't underestimate what losing Wood and Incognito did to last year's team, especially for Dawkins. He has rededicated himself and I think he will prove to be at least an above average LT, even if he never becomes say a top 5 or top 10 guy. I think he'll have a good season this year. And as I said above, I haven't given up on Zay yet. He gets one more year to prove it. And Jason Croom was an undrafted rookie in 2017, not much yet, but he has flashed a bit. There is still a chance he turns into something, even though the TE room suddenly looks very crowded. Not a bad draft for a first time head coach with no real GM at the time.

 

 

Edited by folz
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1 hour ago, klos63 said:

Not sure you can call Dawkins an excellent pick unless you totally ignore how he played last season. And you can't do that.

He was great his rookie year. He did slip a little bit last season but was still our best olineman by far. He didn't get much help to be honest

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And we should have drafted Dan Marino instead of Jim Kelly in 1983. Marino would have won 2 of the 4 Super Bowls. No, I am not joking, Marino was available and he is a top 10 all-time QB. Kelly will drop out of the top 25 before too long. Mahomes is clearly better than Allen so passing on him was a mistake. But I really do like Josh Allen and I don't understand why people don't give him a chance. Kelly threw lots of pics in his early years, in his later years also, his career TD/Int. ratio was 237/175... very poor.

 

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12 hours ago, Chemical said:

 

Zay Jones get a pass from fans for some reason I'll never understand. OBJ makes an arrogant comment in an interview and everyone here hates him. Meanwhile, Zay Jones is on video trying to jump through a window naked and everyone loves him.

 

I will confess when Zay is trying to jump through windows naked I do love him. When trying to catch footballs I love him less. 

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I wanted Watson, said so at the time.  I think Allen will be as good.  And anyone who says that Mahomes, a guy coming out of the single read offense at Tech, a place that had never produced an NFL level consistent starter, a guy who had a lot of questions about footwork, would have had the kind of year he had last year is lying.

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The consensus at the time was that the 2018 QB crop was superior to any QB in that draft with maybe the exception of Trubisky.  The Jets passed on both of them with only McCown and Petty on their roster.  The 49ers passed on them and they had only Beathard and Hoyer on the roster.  The Browns only had Cody Kessler on their roster and they passed on both of them before picking Kizer in the 2nd round.  All will be forgiven if Allen turns out to be a franchise QB and White continues his dominance long term.

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6 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

The consensus at the time was that the 2018 QB crop was superior to any QB in that draft with maybe the exception of Trubisky.  The Jets passed on both of them with only McCown and Petty on their roster.  The 49ers passed on them and they had only Beathard and Hoyer on the roster.  The Browns only had Cody Kessler on their roster and they passed on both of them before picking Kizer in the 2nd round.  All will be forgiven if Allen turns out to be a franchise QB and White continues his dominance long term.

 

There were those of us.... even then..... saying the consensus on the 2017 from the talking heads was wrong. 3 guys whent in the top 12. The 9ers and the Browns passing just tells us about the evaluation problems of those franchises. The NFL in general liked that class much more than the talking heads. And with good reason. It was a good class. Only Mayfield of the 2018 class was as good in his first 10 starts as either Watson or Mahomes. The rest were more on a par with Trubisky.

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Posted (edited)

At this point it looks like an average draft to me.

 

The Bills got two solid starters - White and Milano and two borderline starters- Dawkins and Jones. Now if Dawkins or Jones can develop into solid starters then it would improve in my mind. If they both become solid starters, then it's a great draft.

Edited by vincec

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, MakeBuffaloGreatAgain said:

Tre’Davious White and Dion Dawkins weren’t good picks? Zay seems to be panning out also. A lot better than Chris Hairston, James Hardy, Kelvin Shepherd, and Danny Batten. 

 

Where the hell do you have any evidence of Zay panning out? 

 

 

Edited by Ol Dirty B

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10 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Whaley earned it with the following:

 

1) lack of coherent planning.

2) complete mismanagement of the draft

3) a visible, tangible misunderstanding of how to NOT overpay for underperforming players, thereby leaving the cap in a shambles and the team with a 9 win ceiling.

 

By my metric, mcbeane are already ahead in two and possibly all three categories.

 

 

That's just completely wrong. He can't have a plan when ownership, be it Ralph/Russ or Pegula. Nobody ever backed him and clearly defined how much control he had. Pegula completely screwed him. He built a team for one scheme then was thrown Rex, and again roles were never clearly defined. You can't have a plan, or look like you're building something when you're undercut left and right.

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