Greatest Musical Composers in Rock/Pop/Country/etc

[DC Tom]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

I agree, there are several more contemporary composers I’d put above Williams for sure. I’m not necessarily a fan of his by any stretch. 

 

I'm a fan...but I understand what he writes is for mass consumption in a specific cultural era, and tied to a visual media.

 

I mentioned Prokofiev before...I'll put Williams' Star Wars score up against Alexander Nevsky any day (both are probably my favorite scores).  But they both lose something outside the context of the films, and neither compares to, say, Ives' Symphony #4.  

[K-9]

9 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

I'm a fan...but I understand what he writes is for mass consumption in a specific cultural era, and tied to a visual media.

 

I mentioned Prokofiev before...I'll put Williams' Star Wars score up against Alexander Nevsky any day (both are probably my favorite scores).  But they both lose something outside the context of the films, and neither compares to, say, Ives' Symphony #4.  

I’ll have to acquaint myself, thanks for the tips. 

 

What do you think of Hans Zimmer?

[DC Tom]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

I’ll have to acquaint myself, thanks for the tips. 

 

 

You want complex?  Ives' 4th requires two conductors.  When people ask me to describe it, I tell them "It's what mental illness sounds like."  It's composed of a discordant blend of snippets of contemporary (1900-1920) pop tunes.  

 

I sang Ives' "Circus Band" in high school.  11 parts, simultaneously in the keys of F# and C-Minor.  Ives' later compositions were "controlled chaos."  Not easy listening or performing, but remarkable achievements.

 

4 minutes ago, K-9 said:

What do you think of Hans Zimmer?

 

He was okay, until Nakatomi Plaza...

[K-9]

Just now, DC Tom said:

 

You want complex?  Ives' 4th requires two conductors.  When people ask me to describe it, I tell them "It's what mental illness sounds like."  It's composed of a discordant blend of snippets of contemporary (1900-1920) pop tunes.  

 

I sang Ives' "Circus Band" in high school.  11 parts, simultaneously in the keys of F# and C-Minor.  Ives' later compositions were "controlled chaos."  Not easy listening or performing, but remarkable achievements.

 

 

He was okay, until Nakatomi Plaza...

First bold: although I haven’t heard it,  that is a GREAT description for a lot of discordant compositions and arrangements. 

 

Second bold: ? I like what he did for ‘Inception’, though. 

[WhoTom]

If I believed in reincarnation, I'd think that Pete Townshend was Beethoven in a previous life.

 

Listen to Quadrophenia, start to finish, and see why.

 

Turn off all distractions. Read the lyrics. Listen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2019 by WhoTom

[K-9]

5 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

If I believed in reincarnation, I'd think that Pete Townshend was Beethoven in a previous life.

 

Listen to Quadrophenia, start to finish, and see why.

 

Turn off all distractions. Read the lyrics. Listen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yep. Great piece of work by one the greats. 

[DC Tom]

4 hours ago, K-9 said:

First bold: although I haven’t heard it,  that is a GREAT description for a lot of discordant compositions and arrangements. 

 

 

It's actually the example I use if people want to know what it's like being bipolar.  Glib, yes...but I'm honest-to-God serious as well.

 

4 hours ago, WhoTom said:

If I believed in reincarnation, I'd think that Pete Townshend was Beethoven in a previous life.

 

Listen to Quadrophenia, start to finish, and see why.

 

Turn off all distractions. Read the lyrics. Listen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Which is why I mentioned The Who earlier.  

[Bills4everNY]

I wouldn't put him up there with Beethoven or Mozart, but I will mention Jeff Lynne (ELO).

[Gugny]

On 6/7/2019 at 7:38 PM, DC Tom said:

 

One possible exception: Steve Vai.  He's composing classical/rock fusion pieces that are pretty complex.  Not the finest example of this work - for two-thirds the piece, the Holland Metropole is just a backing track, but it gives you an idea.

 

 

The second disc of this set, it's much more classical pops, with far less shredding.

 

And Billy Joel composed some piano suites in the classical style.  They're not Prokofiev, but they're not bad either.  

 

And the Who, Pink Floyd, and David Bowie.  And maybe Hendrix.

 

Those are about the only ones I can think of, that in 100 years might be remembered in the same way as, say, a Schumann or Mahler are today.

 

Unfortunately, we'll never know - but I think Randy Rhoads could have gone this direction had he lived longer.

 

I'm not an Yngwie Malmsteen fan, but I know he's been marrying rock with classical guitar for decades.  Coincidentally, I was lucky enough to see both Vai and Malmsteen share a stage not too long ago.

[K-9]

12 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

It's actually the example I use if people want to know what it's like being bipolar.  Glib, yes...but I'm honest-to-God serious as well.

 

 

Which is why I mentioned The Who earlier.  

As someone who can relate to this on multiple levels, I don't find it glib at all. In fact, it's kind of refreshing. 

[DC Tom]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Unfortunately, we'll never know - but I think Randy Rhoads could have gone this direction had he lived longer.

 

I'm not an Yngwie Malmsteen fan, but I know he's been marrying rock with classical guitar for decades.  Coincidentally, I was lucky enough to see both Vai and Malmsteen share a stage not too long ago.

 

"Coincidentally?"  They've been doing that for years.  

[T&C]

Someone above mentioned Zappa and I agree... here is a nice article if you have a few minutes to spare: https://www.loudersound.com/features/frank-zappa-people-thought-the-beatles-were-god-that-s-not-correct?fbclid=IwAR1XvgB3CopHBu3sYu9jwilt3Dm31D6oIQ1bOMnvtbSySdJjYB4_c87L-gs

 

Quadrophenia is an excellent example as well as Fripp's King Crimson, mostly during the 70's for my taste but all of it really is very complex.

 

One name I haven't seen mentioned unless I missed it is Mike Oldfield. Tubular Bells isn't something you hack out on a piano in a few hours... this took a Lot of work not in just composing it but also finding the right musicians to be able to actually play it. Guy was just 19 at the time as well...

 

 

[dickleyjones]

the name Chuck Berry will be remembered in the year 2219.

[Gugny]

10 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

"Coincidentally?"  They've been doing that for years.  

 

Coincidentally, as in we're discussing the topic today and I'd recently seen them.  As far as the show, Nuno Bettencourt and Zakk Wylde blew Vai and Malmsteen out of the water.  About a month later, I saw Satriani play Hendrix and he blew everyone out of the water.

[row_33]

if there any point for a moderate Hendrix fan to bother listening to the Curtis Knight releases?

 

experts only, please...

 

 

[row_33]

Can't they use computer cheating and trickery to brighten up Disraeli Gears, like they have to recreate The Beatles???

 

 

[Gugny]

On ‎6‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 11:06 AM, row_33 said:

if there any point for a moderate Hendrix fan to bother listening to the Curtis Knight releases?

 

experts only, please...

 

 

 

Not an expert, but from what I've read, I think they'd be worth a listen.  I'm a more-than-moderate Hendrix fan and I have yet to sample these recordings.  Thanks for the reminder.

[row_33]

14 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Not an expert, but from what I've read, I think they'd be worth a listen.  I'm a more-than-moderate Hendrix fan and I have yet to sample these recordings.  Thanks for the reminder.

 

with THE ESTATE!!!!! blocking everything useful....  i think i may give it a whirl.

 

 

[Gugny]

5 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

with THE ESTATE!!!!! blocking everything useful....  i think i may give it a whirl.

 

 

 

From Rolling Stone in 1968 - https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/phony-hendrix-lp-in-legal-hot-water-197185/

 

"Hendrix himself has described the album as “musically worthless . . . a confetti of tapes hastily thrown together,” and says he is in accord with Warner Brothers’ efforts to curb its distribution."

 

From Rolling Stone in 2015 - https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/jimi-hendrixs-early-curtis-knight-recordings-set-for-official-release-227112/

 

Looks like Eddie Kramer engineered it.  I'd say that's a good thing.

 

If you check it out, let me know what you think.  If I get around to it first, I'll do the same.

[row_33]

14 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

From Rolling Stone in 1968 - https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/phony-hendrix-lp-in-legal-hot-water-197185/

 

"Hendrix himself has described the album as “musically worthless . . . a confetti of tapes hastily thrown together,” and says he is in accord with Warner Brothers’ efforts to curb its distribution."

 

From Rolling Stone in 2015 - https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/jimi-hendrixs-early-curtis-knight-recordings-set-for-official-release-227112/

 

Looks like Eddie Kramer engineered it.  I'd say that's a good thing.

 

If you check it out, let me know what you think.  If I get around to it first, I'll do the same.

 

 

THE ESTATE!!!! can't block it on youtube.

 

Just finished a bio on Jimi, went into details about contract hassles and such, good read to accompany Apple to the Core for The Beatles

 

Jimi signed every tiny contract and didn't sign any major contract, the efforts to identify and buy out his minor contracts when he got big was harrowing

 

 

 

 

 

[_Underscore_]

Nice to see one of you guys (who is NOT an idiot) remember Pink Floyd -- a ton of quality work from them.  Limited to composers of Pop/Rock, you might want to consider Peter Gabriel too (both with and without Genesis).  Maybe not your cup of tea, but certainly a sizable catalog of high quality work as a composer.

[SoTier]

On 6/7/2019 at 3:09 PM, K-9 said:

More power to them as I don’t think it detracts from their musical genius or the mastery they achieved playing instruments or singing. Some great musicians invented their own forms of notation as well, so I just can’t hold a lack of formal musical training against them, either. 

 

But classical composing is just a different animal entirely vs. pop music constructs, even though some pop pieces are far more complex than others in their own right. But it’s like comparing a Renaissance art work to a paint by numbers. 

 

I disagree.  A more appropriate art comparison would be comparing a Renaissance masterpiece to an Impressionist or Cubist masterpiece.  Different eras produce different genres with a tiny fraction of the art within each genre eventually becoming a masterpiece.

 

What we consider "classical music" today was a  tiny part of the  music of its era, that part which was both intended to appeal to the aristocracy, a very sophisticated audience, and which was good enough to endure.  A lot of the music that the aristocracy enjoyed at the time hasn't survived because it wasn't good enough.  Ordinary people of the time listened to different music ... some of it centuries old traditional music (folk music) and some of it more modern tunes created by contemporary musicians for singing, playing, and dancing in both public and private.   Almost all of the popular music from eras contemporary to classical music "masterpieces" hasn't survived, either, but some it -- especially melodies -- have become part of today's popular music.

 

 

[row_33]

On 6/13/2019 at 1:14 PM, Gugny said:

 

Not an expert, but from what I've read, I think they'd be worth a listen.  I'm a more-than-moderate Hendrix fan and I have yet to sample these recordings.  Thanks for the reminder.

 

found out last week he wrote with his right hand, so going lefty to play is that more far out....

 

 

[WhoTom]

16 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

found out last week he wrote with his right hand, so going lefty to play is that more far out....

 

 

 

Not everyone is strictly right- or left-handed. I write and eat left-handed, but I play guitar right-handed. (My guitar teacher is the same.) I'm right-handed in sports. Even stranger, I hold a handgun right-handed, but I shoot a rifle left-handed. It's not a conscious decision - I just pick up an object and hold it the way that feels natural to me.

 

 

Edited June 15, 2019 by WhoTom

[ExiledInIllinois]

On 6/7/2019 at 12:47 PM, Gugny said:

I think the answer is no.

Eagles.

 

???

 

Pop/Rock/Country all rolled up into one.

[row_33]

1 hour ago, WhoTom said:

 

Not everyone is strictly right- or left-handed. I write and eat left-handed, but I play guitar right-handed. (My guitar teacher is the same.) I'm right-handed in sports. Even stranger, I hold a handgun right-handed, but I shoot a rifle left-handed. It's not a conscious decision - I just pick up an object and hold it the way that feels natural to me.

 

 

 

who said everyone is strictly left or right, it's not a conversation to straw man a person into 100% and then dismiss them

 

using the left side is unquestionably the minority way, i think it's a lot more natural than society will admit, and it's getting more open to allowing lefty

 

i naturally play guitar with my right hand as well, whoop dee doooooooooooooooooooo

 

finding your way as a right-handed person to play left-handed, with your Strat upside down is very very bizarre, fits perfect for Mr. Hendrix

 

 

perhaps you aren't a fan of Mr. Hendrix for his music or personality, that's okay as well....

[K-9]

On 6/13/2019 at 6:24 PM, SoTier said:

 

I disagree.  A more appropriate art comparison would be comparing a Renaissance masterpiece to an Impressionist or Cubist masterpiece.  Different eras produce different genres with a tiny fraction of the art within each genre eventually becoming a masterpiece.

 

What we consider "classical music" today was a  tiny part of the  music of its era, that part which was both intended to appeal to the aristocracy, a very sophisticated audience, and which was good enough to endure.  A lot of the music that the aristocracy enjoyed at the time hasn't survived because it wasn't good enough.  Ordinary people of the time listened to different music ... some of it centuries old traditional music (folk music) and some of it more modern tunes created by contemporary musicians for singing, playing, and dancing in both public and private.   Almost all of the popular music from eras contemporary to classical music "masterpieces" hasn't survived, either, but some it -- especially melodies -- have become part of today's popular music.

 

 

Well, I disagree with your disagreement as you don’t seem to grasp the nature of my analogy, which is based STRICTLY on the different level of complexity in compositions written for full symphony orchestration vs. music compositions written for the pop music of today. Maybe had you read all of my posts the thread, my meaning would have been clearer to you. 

 

Thanks for the music and art history lessons, though. Although none of that has to do with the discussion I was involved in here. 

[row_33]

the "classical" universe is always more widespread than one thinks

 

always new composers to discover, youtube has been amazing for finding recordings of 20th century string quartets

 

so keep enjoying!

 

 

[row_33]

here's one to start the day...

 

 

 

 

[WhoTom]

1 hour ago, row_33 said:

 

who said everyone is strictly left or right, it's not a conversation to straw man a person into 100% and then dismiss them

 

using the left side is unquestionably the minority way, i think it's a lot more natural than society will admit, and it's getting more open to allowing lefty

 

i naturally play guitar with my right hand as well, whoop dee doooooooooooooooooooo

 

finding your way as a right-handed person to play left-handed, with your Strat upside down is very very bizarre, fits perfect for Mr. Hendrix

 

 

perhaps you aren't a fan of Mr. Hendrix for his music or personality, that's okay as well....

 

Jeez - no need to get cranky about it.

 

I am a fan of his music and what I know about his personality suggests he was a decent guy, not that that has anything to do with which way he held a guitar. I merely pointed out that it's not exactly unique to be dominant with one hand for some things and the other hand for other things.

 

 

 

 

 

[BringBackFergy]

You guys all hanging out in the Rock genre....Rogers and Hammerstein or Andrew Lloyd Weber for the win!! Amazing composers.