Buffalo Sabres and NHL: 2019/20: Sabres season officially over. Draft lottery June 26th

[BillsFan4]

11 hours ago, K-9 said:

Haha! He literally didn’t stop one shootout attempt that season. Not. One. 0 for 8 and a stellar .000 save percentage. 
 

Anyway screw that guy. The Sabres organization stood by him, paid for his treatment and rehab and then he has the nerve to do that hit job on the Buffalo fans in one of the NY papers last spring? Screw Lehner. I’m sorry he  battled sobriety demons and I’m glad he seems to have that in control now, but HE  ripped off the fans by choosing to play when he wasn’t clean, sober, and committed to being his  best on a nightly basis. Sorry, but he doesn’ get to blame the fans for that.
 

He can piss off.
 

 

 

I feel pretty much the same. I applaud him for getting help with his mental illness+addiction and being so open about his recovery. 

 

But he was not part of the solution during his time here. If anything, he was part of the problem. He was playing while heavily drinking, and was reportedly quite a handful to deal with at times. 

 

I feel like he didn’t start taking his NHL career seriously until he left Buffalo. So why he seems to hold such a grudge against the Sabres, I have no idea. He’s taken quite a few shots at buffalo since he left. I mean, he’s kind of right about some of the stuff he said. But I just don’t get why he seems to have so much hate for the team that gave up prime assets to give him his first ever shot at a starting role in the NHL (after he forced his way out of Ottawa). A role he never took seriously until he left. 

I fully understand that it often takes people time to come to terms with addiction/mental illness and get the help they need. So I don’t hold a grudge against Lehner. I just don’t get the hate he has for buffalo is all. 

 

 

 

As far as his save % here, yeah it was good. But IMO the Sabres artificially inflated goalies sv%’s because they allowed such a high volume of shots (bylsma’s system was all about letting the other team take as many low danger shots as they wanted). Look at some of the other goalies that had great sv% numbers during that time. About 1/2 aren’t even in the NHL anymore. 

 

And as you said, he was the worst goalie in shootouts and on breakaways I have ever seen. Remember, he refused to even practice the shootout here. Housley (iirc) tried to get him to and he refused. 

[JohnC]

7 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

 

 

And as you said, he was the worst goalie in shootouts and on breakaways I have ever seen. Remember, he refused to even practice the shootout here. Housley (iirc) tried to get him to and he refused. 

If Housley couldn't get the lumbering goalie to practice on his weaknesses that is an indictment of the coach. If the player refuses to participate in a drill that addresses weakness in his game then that is in your face insubordination. Not only does the coach lose credibility with the player but the flagrant disrespect flows down to the rest of the team. 

 

The coach has the authority to direct his players. If you are not winning with your players then what do you have to lose by moving out the recalcitrant player/s. Lehner's internal struggles were known within the organization. I'm sure they didn't know what the exact cause of his aberrant behavior was but there was enough of an issue to recognize that something was very wrong. The staff shouldn't have put up with his conduct and attitude because it was detrimental to the team. They should have forced him seek help and use his roster spot for someone else. Losing is bad enough. Losing control of the operation is worse. 

 

The former GM who dealt for Lehner made a stupendously stupid deal. It made absolutely no sense. It demonstrates how bad decisions have lingering consequences and make the road to success a much longer distance to travel. 

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

If Housley couldn't get the lumbering goalie to practice on his weaknesses that is an indictment of the coach. If the player refuses to participate in a drill that addresses weakness in his game then that is in your face insubordination. Not only does the coach lose credibility with the player but the flagrant disrespect flows down to the rest of the team. 

 

The coach has the authority to direct his players. If you are not winning with your players then what do you have to lose by moving out the recalcitrant player/s. Lehner's internal struggles were known within the organization. I'm sure they didn't know what the exact cause of his aberrant behavior was but there was enough of an issue to recognize that something was very wrong. The staff shouldn't have put up with his conduct and attitude because it was detrimental to the team. They should have forced him seek help and use his roster spot for someone else. Losing is bad enough. Losing control of the operation is worse. 

 

The former GM who dealt for Lehner made a stupendously stupid deal. It made absolutely no sense. It demonstrates how bad decisions have lingering consequences and make the road to success a much longer distance to travel. 

Good points. Once again illustrating just how out of his depth Housley was as a head coach. 

[shrader]

13 hours ago, JohnC said:

I looked up Alex Nylander's stats with Chicago. In 12 games he has 2 goals and 5 assists with a plus 2. He is averaging 12:47 minutes a game. Those are respectable numbers. However, Beane's deal of Jokiharju for Nylander is very much in our favor. The Blackhawk fans have every right to be upset with that deal. 

 

Beane must be a really busy man.

[BillsFan4]

39 minutes ago, JohnC said:

If Housley couldn't get the lumbering goalie to practice on his weaknesses that is an indictment of the coach. If the player refuses to participate in a drill that addresses weakness in his game then that is in your face insubordination. Not only does the coach lose credibility with the player but the flagrant disrespect flows down to the rest of the team. 

 

The coach has the authority to direct his players. If you are not winning with your players then what do you have to lose by moving out the recalcitrant player/s. Lehner's internal struggles were known within the organization. I'm sure they didn't know what the exact cause of his aberrant behavior was but there was enough of an issue to recognize that something was very wrong. The staff shouldn't have put up with his conduct and attitude because it was detrimental to the team. They should have forced him seek help and use his roster spot for someone else. Losing is bad enough. Losing control of the operation is worse. 

 

The former GM who dealt for Lehner made a stupendously stupid deal. It made absolutely no sense. It demonstrates how bad decisions have lingering consequences and make the road to success a much longer distance to travel.

That is who I blame the most for the whole Lehner situation. 

 

Tim Murray scouted+drafted Lehner and spent years in Ottawa with hi. He was the GM of their AHL team the whole time Lehner player there. He knew Lehner better than just about anyone (or at least he should have). 

 

How did he not not have any idea of Lehner’s problems? Robin even said that this had been going on since his Ottawa days. Murray not only trades for him, but he gives up a 1st round pick in the deepest draft in over a decade to do it. He was the only GM willing to give up a 1st for Lehner, and he had the most inside knowledge on him. 

 

[BillsFan4]

 

[BillsFan4]

 

 

 

 

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

That is who I blame the most for the whole Lehner situation. 

 

Tim Murray scouted+drafted Lehner and spent years in Ottawa with hi. He was the GM of their AHL team the whole time Lehner player there. He knew Lehner better than just about anyone (or at least he should have). 

 

How did he not not have any idea of Lehner’s problems? Robin even said that this had been going on since his Ottawa days. Murray not only trades for him, but he gives up a 1st round pick in the deepest draft in over a decade to do it. He was the only GM willing to give up a 1st for Lehner, and he had the most inside knowledge on him.

 

The first round pick that Murray used for Lehner (a goalie that Ottawa probably wasn't going to keep) could have been used for a forward who would now be ready to play on the first or more likely second line. Compare that to the current GM signing Hutton and giving up nothing for him? Hutton is not only as good, if not better, but also one of the leaders on this team. The previous staffs have made so many crippling mistakes that it is both laughable and sad. GMs make a lot of decisions in which not all of them work out. That's inherent in making decisions in any profession. However, there is a big difference between making a calculated decisions that don't work out and making outrageously stupid decisions that never had any chance of working out. 

 

The primary reason that Murray blundered on his goalie acquisition in Lehner is that he overvalued the attribute of size for the position. That was why he was so fixated on him. He got tunnel vision in his scouting for the position and it resulted in that decision exploding on him. While Murray was intoxicated with his self-destructive bluster and short term perspective Botterill was more analytical with a longer term perspective. Or another way of saying this is being dumb is not better than being smart! 

[shrader]

Why does everyone always forget the MVP of that trade?  David Legwand was so good, he scored from his own bench.

[Nextmanup]

3 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

This is absolutely no surprise to me whatsoever.

 

The worst destination in the league was always Winnipeg, back before they lost their team.

Now it's back again so perhaps it is still thought of #1 No Trade Zone.

 

Calgary/Edmonton come to mind, Buffalo, a few others.

 

 

[BillsFan4]

Not gonna lie, I smiled when Lehner just got lit up by Evander Kane on a short handed breakaway. I see Lehner’s been practicing... lol.

 

Also, speaking of Kane ->

 

 

[4merper4mer]

17 hours ago, JohnC said:

The first round pick that Murray used for Lehner (a goalie that Ottawa probably wasn't going to keep) could have been used for a forward who would now be ready to play on the first or more likely second line. Compare that to the current GM signing Hutton and giving up nothing for him? Hutton is not only as good, if not better, but also one of the leaders on this team. The previous staffs have made so many crippling mistakes that it is both laughable and sad. GMs make a lot of decisions in which not all of them work out. That's inherent in making decisions in any profession. However, there is a big difference between making a calculated decisions that don't work out and making outrageously stupid decisions that never had any chance of working out. 

 

The primary reason that Murray blundered on his goalie acquisition in Lehner is that he overvalued the attribute of size for the position. That was why he was so fixated on him. He got tunnel vision in his scouting for the position and it resulted in that decision exploding on him. While Murray was intoxicated with his self-destructive bluster and short term perspective Botterill was more analytical with a longer term perspective. Or another way of saying this is being dumb is not better than being smart! 

This GM has done some positive things but signing Hutton was not some epiphany.  He was one of just a few free agent options and he is basically average although when he is on he really helps the team.  Replacing Lehner was going to look good even if he signed Louie Anderson to play goalie.

 

The frustrating part about Botts is his willingness to golf his days away while waiting 1000 years for success.  It won't work.  Eichel will be turning 52 in year one of Botts "get the 8 seed plan".

 

Player development has to be called into question at this point.  Nylander, utterly worthless for years in the Sabres system, is a viable NHL player 10 minutes after moving to Chicago and we have a 19 year old phenom that is.......regressing?  Not a good look.

 

The coach has been a positive for sure so good on Botts for hiring him but he can't keep giving him chicken **** and ask for chicken salad.

 

[PromoTheRobot]

8 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

Not gonna lie, I smiled when Lehner just got lit up by Evander Kane on a short handed breakaway. I see Lehner’s been practicing... lol.

 

Also, speaking of Kane ->

 

 

 

Wow. What player is doing this in the middle of a playoff series? Red flags galore. He needs to call GA and get his priorities straight.

[PromoTheRobot]

On 11/4/2019 at 9:04 PM, GG said:

 

I’m fairly certain Sabres defense was also at fault on all his shootout efforts.

 

Seriously. He looked like a trout flapping on a dock half the time.

[GG]

12 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Wow. What player is doing this in the middle of a playoff series? Red flags galore. He needs to call GA and get his priorities straight.

 

Could explain why he was late coming in from Toronto that one time.  Probably made a pit stop in Niagara Falls.

[JohnC]

The attached link is a column by Travis Yost from the Buffalo News. It focuses on the good play of the third pairing of Jokiharju and Scandella with the main focus on Jokiharju. He uses analytics to support his case of how well Joki is playing and how the younger player is elevating the play of the older Scandella. The bottom line is this trade of Nylander for Jokiharju has worked out really well for us. He is still a very young player with a lot of upside. Kudos to our GM. 

 

https://buffalonews.com/2019/11/06/buffalo-sabres-henri-jokiharju-marco-scandella-analytics-travis-yost/

[BillsFan4]

Finally some Sabres hockey today! 

 

Hopefully they can get back in the win column. 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

Finally some Sabres hockey today! 

 

Hopefully they can get back in the win column. 

Without question, Tampa is not only the more talented team but they are underachieving this season. It was  mentioned by one of the Buffalo commentators (forgot which one) that some of the players were starting to snipe at one another on the bench during the games. I'm hoping that this cross continent game doesn't result in them bonding as a team and playing better as a unit. The Sabres have a number of Swedes on the roster who will be playing in front of family and friends. Just maybe that back home atmosphere might be a factor in this game. If the Sabres win one game out of two I will be more than satisfied. 

[K-9]

The hockey Gods demand retribution for the cheap shot Kucherov just gave Sobotka. Blatant interference well after Sobotka shot the puck and the ref was too much of a p***sy to blow the whistle. I hope Risto makes Kucherov swallow his own stick.

 

 

Screw this ref. Calls interference on Dahlin after totally missing the more blatant penalty on Kucherov. Ref has money on TAMPA. That’s the only explanation.

Edited November 8, 2019 by K-9

[Nextmanup]

Is tomorrow's game also being televised on NBC sports network?

 

 

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Is tomorrow's game also being televised on NBC sports network?

 

 

NHL Metwork and MSG

[Nextmanup]

3 minutes ago, K-9 said:

NHL Metwork and MSG

Thanks.

[K-9]

Refs doing everything they can to deny us this game. Thank goodness Toronto overturned that egregious “no goal” call. What the flying F are these refs looking at?

 

That said, we are definitely regressing back to our mean over the last half dozen games or so. To put it mildly, we are offensively challenged and, like last year, if our top line isn’t driving possession and scoring, we have little to no chance. 
 

And that little Russian douche Kucherov should be suspended for that cheap shot on Sobotka. The more I look at it, the more dirty it is. Shades of Marchand. 

Edited November 8, 2019 by K-9

[plenzmd1]

13 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Refs doing everything they can to deny us this game. Thank goodness Toronto overturned that egregious “no goal” call. What the flying F are these refs looking at?

 

That said, we are definitely regressing back to our mean over the last half dozen games or so. To put it mildly, we are offensively challenged and, like last year, if our top line isn’t driving possession and scoring, we have little to no chance. 
 

And that little Russian douche Kucherov should be suspended for that cheap shot on Sobotka. The more I look at it, the more dirty it is. Shades of Marchand. 

it does seem like they came in with some preconceived notion of who the better team is. Good to see the fellas after almost two week absence for me

[Turk71]

***** pathetic final 3 minutes. No sense of urgency, pass pass pass pass pass. Shoot the ***** puck!!! Let them hang out for 20 seconds behind their net with no Sabres even in their zone. This team is frustrating to watch.

[BillsFan4]

Loss #4 in a row. Falling back down to earth here. Lack of talent/depth already catching up to them? 

 

They have to get a win tomorrow and break this losing streak before things start to snowball. 

 

[K-9]

8 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

Loss #4 in a row. Falling back down to earth here. Lack of talent/depth already catching up to them? 

 

They have to get a win tomorrow and break this losing streak before things start to snowball. 

 

I’d say things are snowballing already. PHam just said 6 goals in 9 games. Anemic. That simply won’t win games. 
 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

Noticed all the Bolts fans. I thought the Sabres were the local favorite with all our Swedish players?

[Beast]

I think it may be time for a blockbuster trade. I’m not so sure our “star” players have what it from the inside out to build a winning hockey club.

 

This team is leaderless. A Michael Peca type is sorely needed.

 

A couple three Michael Peca types are sorely needed.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Binghamton Beast

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

Loss #4 in a row. Falling back down to earth here. Lack of talent/depth already catching up to them? 

 

They have to get a win tomorrow and break this losing streak before things start to snowball. 

 

What's happening is that the Sabres are being exposed for their lack of scoring throughout their lines. The Mittelstadt line is impotent and the Larsson line fulfills its important role as a checking line but isn't contributing enough goals. Other than the Jack line I don't see where the scoring is going to come from. Reinhart scored twice because he was in front of the net for a tip in and he shot and scored from the outside when there was some good screening net presence. But that is more of an exception than a consistent occurrence. 

 

The Tampa roster is filled with scorers. Our roster is thinly staffed with scorers. Will a deal or two make a major difference for us? Unless Risto is dangled in a major deal I don't see this rostered being meaningfully altered. 

[Figster]

1 hour ago, Binghamton Beast said:

I think it may be time for a blockbuster trade. I’m not so sure our “star” players have what it from the inside out to build a winning hockey club.

 

This team is leaderless. A Michael Peca type is sorely needed.

 

A couple three Michael Peca types are sorely needed.

I agree with this 100 %

 

The Sabres need leadership...

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Figster said:

I agree with this 100 %

 

The Sabres need leadership...

There are more than enough leaders and character guys in the locker room. I don't see that as an issue. The primary source of their struggles has to do with the fact that they don't have enough goal scorers spread out throughout the roster. Or another way of describing our major flaw is that there isn't enough scoring talent. As I see it for the most part the  effort exists in most of the games. That's not the crux of the problem. Even when players have opportunities to score too frequently the players on the ice can't convert their golden opportunities. 

 

This roster is more talented than last year's roster. It's still not good enough to be a top tier contending team. I do believe that we have enough talent to be a fringe playoff team and maybe eek out a playoff position. However, that is not a guarantee. What's the solution? Add more scoring talent. But in order to address that issue through a trade you have to give up something very valuable. There is no simple or easy solution. 

[bbb]

5 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Noticed all the Bolts fans. I thought the Sabres were the local favorite with all our Swedish players?

 

Brian Kozial was there and him, along with Schopp and the Bulldog, surmised that Hedman made them Bolts fans first. 

[Nextmanup]

Finally saw the game; another weak effort from the Sabres.

 

The complete lack of a response to the cheap shot was highly disappointing, but this roster is almost entirely devoid of players with any kind of edge to their game.  By my count the number is one: Risto.  We are incredibly soft.  

 

The team is starting to revert to last year's form and there just wasn't enough substantive change in the off-season for that to be surprising.

 

We'll drift out of the top 8 in the conference soon.  How far we fall remains to be seen.

 

It will be interesting to see what the next month looks like. 

 

 

[4merper4mer]

Botts' sense of urgency starting to reap it's predictable dividends.  On a positive note I hear he cut three strokes off his handicap this summer.

[plenzmd1]

here we go....5 in a row and 5 days off to think about it...then 10 in 17...guess its time to start following these handles

 

https://twitter.com/SabresProspects?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

 

https://twitter.com/Prospects_Watch

 

 

[K-9]

Bills gotta win tomorrow or this will have been one of the worst Buffalo sports weekends in a while. 

[bbb]

Just now, K-9 said:

Bills gotta win tomorrow or this will have been one of the worst Buffalo sports weekends in a while. 

 

And, you're probably not even a Bonnies fan ?

[K-9]

54 minutes ago, bbb said:

 

And, you're probably not even a Bonnies fan ?

Love the Bonnies. Have since the Bob Lanier, Bill Butler days. I still haven’t forgiven Chris Ford! 
 

That said, I like all the Little 3/Big 4 teams and root for them. When it’s head to head, I gotta go with my Golden Griffins, though.

[JohnC]

This is a WGR link of Ralph Krueger's post game comments. It is a five minute segment. 

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/media/audio-channel/ralph-krueger-post-gamehttps:

 

The below link is WGR's Paul Hamilton write up of the game. It stated the obvious critical observations about the game. 

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/news/sabres-leave-sweden-no-points