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Logic

Matt Miller: 2020 draft set to have a "historic group" at WR, RB

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1 hour ago, Chuck Wagon said:

2018 - loaded QB class, Beane grabs his QB

2019 - loaded Dline class, Beane grabs what might have been his top DT

2020 - loaded WR / RB class......

 

Almost as if Beane has done some advanced scouting.  A far cry from previous regimes where it felt like our draft pick either had to be from Clemson or was a random dart throw.

Could have also drafted Pat Mahomes, JuJu, and not had to trade any draft picks either.  I’d say we could have still drafted Oliver but we probably won’t have had a shot. 

 

These classes change all the time. Guys emerge, some guys don’t progress, guys get Hirt, some don’t come out.  Again, it’s fluid.  

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

Or and I know this sounds crazy but they focused on getting positions they needed with the strength of the draft class like DL, OL, and TE. I mean who after they'd addressed those spots could they of taken that they'd have a reasonable certainty they'd make the starting roster.

Love the first 2 picks but the rb and TE were hardly slam dunk picks.  IMO, a guy like Butler helps this team more than a rb (we have 4 now) and a TE who hasn’t caught a td.

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1 hour ago, Logic said:

 If you go by the "Best player available" strategy, which Beane has told us again and again he does, you begin to see that the best player left on the board each time the Bills picked was NOT a wide receiver. Go back and look at the Singletary pick and the WRs available at that time. Who should they have picked? Ditto the Knox pick. 

 

Hakeem Butler will be a star imo. Nothing against Singletary or Knox and I am hoping they both turn out to be awesome picks, but I think front offices were wrong to pass on Butler in the 3rd round. Also every big board I could find had him higher than both of those guys, I am sure there were boards like Buffalo's that didn't but I couldn't find them. 

   I am happy with the Bills draft and this is not a complaint but GMs are wrong a lot and the fact that they pass on players is not an indication or proof that they were right to do so. I understand the rosterability part, but the Bills don't have any 6'5" 230 lb 4.48 40 wrs who led the nation in 20+ yd receptions.

41 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said:

I'm hoping we get lucky and Foster becomes a #1. 

Hoping we get lucky, solid strategy.😂

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1 hour ago, Logic said:

 


Foster
Brown 
Beasley
Jones

With those 4 guys likely being locked in at WR and with the Bills set to carry no more than 6 WRs maximum, one of whom will likely be return man Andre Roberts, and with useful players like Ian McKenzie and Duke Williams also vying for playing time....it's crazy to me that people are so put out about the Bills not drafting a WR5. They did, however, go out and get two UDFA WRs in Easley and Sills who, had they been drafted in the 5th round, would have received universal praise from Bills fans.

I get wanting the Bills to draft a WR. I also get why they DIDN'T draft a WR, and I think anyone that got too bent out of shape about it is/was being silly. You can't just take a guy at a position just because you need one, and say value be damned. If you go by the "Best player available" strategy, which Beane has told us again and again he does, you begin to see that the best player left on the board each time the Bills picked was NOT a wide receiver. Go back and look at the Singletary pick and the WRs available at that time. Who should they have picked? Ditto the Knox pick. You could argue that they should've taken a guy in the 5th or 6th round, but at that point the odds that said player would have a substantial impact are low any way. And again, they got what many believed to be 5th/6th round caliber talent at WR via undrafted free agency in Sills and Easley.

 

Competition is always a good thing.  Our receivers are better but it is hardly a group that is great. Beasley/ Brown are smaller guys who average 600 yards/ season for their career.  Jones doesn’t have any elite skills and maybe a low end 2 at best.  Foster isn’t far removed from not playing for Bama and getting cut from the Bills.  You don’t stop upgrading this group.  

 

 

1 minute ago, Turk71 said:

Hakeem Butler will be a star imo. Nothing against Singletary or Knox and I am hoping they both turn out to be awesome picks, but I think front offices were wrong to pass on Butler in the 3rd round. Also every big board I could find had him higher than both of those guys, I am sure there were boards like Buffalo's that didn't but I couldn't find them. 

   I am happy with the Bills draft and this is not a complaint but GMs are wrong a lot and the fact that they pass on players is not an indication or proof that they were right to do so. I understand the rosterability part, but the Bills don't have any 6'5" 230 lb 4.48 40 wrs who led the nation in 20+ yd receptions.

Hoping we get lucky, solid strategy.😂

Butler would be the perfect compliment to this group.  Most qbs need a guy they can just throw it up.  We don’t have anything close to that. 

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1 hour ago, Chuck Wagon said:

2018 - loaded QB class, Beane grabs his QB

2019 - loaded Dline class, Beane grabs what might have been his top DT

2020 - loaded WR / RB class......

 

Almost as if Beane has done some advanced scouting.  A far cry from previous regimes where it felt like our draft pick either had to be from Clemson or was a random dart throw.

 

The preparation of this front office is unique. The wins will come and they will be sustained.

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16 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

Hoping we get lucky, solid strategy.

Not really a strategy. The 2020 draft is a year away. 

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3 minutes ago, billspro said:

 

The preparation of this front office is unique. The wins will come and they will be sustained.

They went backwards this year.  The wins need to start this year.  

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5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

They went backwards this year.  The wins need to start this year.  

Yeah, unfortunately, folks are already lowering the bar for this year, saying they would be OK with 8-8 or 9-7--in other words, the same as under Rex--and that McDermott is pretty much guaranteed another year unless they go 2-14.  

 

I could not disagree more.  I think this year they need to (1) make the playoffs, and (2) win at least one game vs. NE or their seats are going to be extremely warm.  I do think Beane is on a longer leash than McDermott.   

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24 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Could have also drafted Pat Mahomes, JuJu, and not had to trade any draft picks either.  I’d say we could have still drafted Oliver but we probably won’t have had a shot. 

 

These classes change all the time. Guys emerge, some guys don’t progress, guys get Hirt, some don’t come out.  Again, it’s fluid.  

Love the first 2 picks but the rb and TE were hardly slam dunk picks.  IMO, a guy like Butler helps this team more than a rb (we have 4 now) and a TE who hasn’t caught a td.

Didn't he have trouble with drops? And did he not do the 3 cone and shuttle drill? Also we have 9 RBs at the moment though if we just go with the top 4 Shady, Gore, Yeldon, and Singletary 2 of them are old enough that who knows if either of them will be here next year.

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8 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said:

Not really a strategy. The 2020 draft is a year away. 

...but, but isn't the upcoming class always better than the last one?......probably why MM calls it the "way too early mock"......besides McBeane (oops...sorry eball..)already has plenty of time invested in 2020 analysis....

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3 minutes ago, mannc said:

Yeah, unfortunately, folks are already lowering the bar for this year, saying they would be OK with 8-8 or 9-7--in other words, the same as under Rex--and that McDermott is pretty much guaranteed another year unless they go 2-14.  

 

I could not disagree more.  I think this year they need to (1) make the playoffs, and (2) win at least one game vs. NE or their seats are going to be extremely warm.  I do think Beane is on a longer leash than McDermott.   

I agree but do you think Beane could really fire McDermott after he was hired after him?  That would be super awkward.

 

i really like what this regime has done on defensive but it gets way too much of a pass.  Our offense has been terrible for two years.  Obviously I want the playoffs but they need to see progression in Allen and the offense.  If it is still not good, changes need to be made.

4 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Didn't he have trouble with drops? And did he not do the 3 cone and shuttle drill? Also we have 9 RBs at the moment though if we just go with the top 4 Shady, Gore, Yeldon, and Singletary 2 of them are old enough that who knows if either of them will be here next year.

I just like the analogy that a receiving core should be like a basketball team.  We have the other guys but we really need a c/ PF type.  Young qbs need a big guy to just throw the ball up to.  

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3 hours ago, Logic said:

Wide receiver is loaded with maybe the best prospect I've ever evaluated (Jerry Jeudy) as well as household names like Tee Higgins, Laviska Shenault, CeeDee Lamb and Donovan Peoples-Jones. 

 

Also an historic collection of sweet football names at the WR position. 

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6 minutes ago, mannc said:

Yeah, unfortunately, folks are already lowering the bar for this year, saying they would be OK with 8-8 or 9-7--in other words, the same as under Rex--and that McDermott is pretty much guaranteed another year unless they go 2-14.  

 

I could not disagree more.  I think this year they need to (1) make the playoffs, and (2) win at least one game vs. NE or their seats are going to be extremely warm.  I do think Beane is on a longer leash than McDermott.   

 

You're missing the difference between what will happen and what you think should happen.  In the event they go 8-8 or 9-7, neither will be fired.  I think they shouldn't but reasonable minds can disagree. Your opinion on what you think should happen is an outlier, and certainly not representative of what will likely happen. 

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Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

You're missing the difference between what will happen and what you think should happen.  In the event they go 8-8 or 9-7, neither will be fired.  I think they shouldn't but reasonable minds can disagree. Your opinion on what you think should happen is an outlier, and certainly not representative of what will likely happen. 

If they have a 2014 8-8 or 7-9 and Allen doesn’t show progress, changes could be made.  

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Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

If they have a 2014 8-8 or 7-9 and Allen doesn’t show progress, changes could be made.  

 

They could, and who knows maybe they would Fire Daboll.  But that would be the extent of it.  Beane and McDermott have impressed me, and they have definitely impressed the Pegulas and people around the league.  They are definitely not getting fired for a middling outcome. 

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Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

They could, and who knows maybe they would Fire Daboll.  But that would be the extent of it.  Beane and McDermott have impressed me, and they have definitely impressed the Pegulas and people around the league.  They are definitely not getting fired for a middling outcome. 

2 OCs in 3 years would be a very bad look.  But a long way to go for that I guess. 

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1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

2 OCs in 3 years would be a very bad look.  But a long way to go for that I guess. 

 

I think they really like Daboll.  I really think things would really have to fall apart for them to start firing people. 

 

However, firings are usually contexual.  If the offense is the problem, maybe it will be Daboll.  If its the defense, maybe Frazier.  

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Context is important.  What is Suh signs for P*ts and and on broken play in preseason stamps all over Allen?  Doesn't that change expectations?

 

Making declarations on what should happen if expectations are met before even roster is established is silly.

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Every year is a historic year or the deepest draft for X position. 

 

Someday will come the most historic and deepest draft for punters

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I love talking NFL draft 11 months early

Image result for dentist gif
 
 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Logic said:


People always overlook "rosterability" when talking about drafting players.

You should draft players that you think will actually make the roster. 

As I mentioned above, with four WR spots probably already taken and with Andre Roberts likely to take the 6th spot as a return specialist, it leaves probably ONE spot open. The Bills ALREADY have Ian McKenzie (former 5th round pick, has gadget versatility, and who the staff clearly likes) and Duke Williams (CFL's leading WR last year) vying for that spot. What are the odds that a 4th or 5th round WR would have beaten out these two guys? Last year, the Bills drafted two WRs just because they needed them: Ray Ray McCloud and Austin Proehl. How did that work out? 

You have to draft roster-able guys.

 

 

It's a wonder people don't understand this. Beane even talked about this very thought process in one the interviews leading up to the draft.

 

 

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