The Bisons need to hook up with a better Major League Org

[dollars 2 donuts]

...or at least one that has better minor league prospects or minor league organization.

 

Junior aside Buffalo and their stadium still are the jewel of the minor leagues and since Cleveland let Buffalo go, wherein they had 8 playoff appearances in their first 10 years together, Buffalo has now missed the post season 13 years in a row (3 with Cleveland, 4 with the Mets, 6 with the Blue Jays).  Additionally, year 14 is off to a shaky start.

 

I know proximity is important, but it is very frustrating that we can't hook up with somebody that has a reasonably run minor league program.  13, soon to be 14 years is a ridiculous time to go without a post season bid, but more directly, not to have a competitive team in Triple A.  Only 3 times during this stretch have they won 75 or more games, not once have they won 80 and they have never finished in 2nd during this stretch.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by dollars 2 donuts

[May Day 10]

Its tough.  They had it so good with Cleveland, and before that, Pittsburgh. 

 

Winning in minor leagues has become so secondary too.  Everything is on a pitch count, it seems the players dont care about winning... and games are nothing but peripheral events that happen to occur while something else is going on like Star Wars Day.  The games themselves stink, and the "playoffs" are usually skeletal versions of the team after the MLB September call-ups happen.

 

And, prepare to feel old, but Pilot Field is no longer the crown jewel of the Minors, nor the International League.  It is actually the oldest IL ballpark I believe.  Cleveland pulled out of Buffalo in part because Columbus was opening a nicer facility (and they wanted to regionalize a bit in Ohio).

 

 

I think Toronto may be a decent team to partner with, based on how they are forced to perpetually rebuild.  The Bisons just caught them at a point where they were actually trying to compete for a few seasons and emptied the cupboard.  Proximity is good as well.

[dollars 2 donuts]

@May Day 10

 

 

Good points and a good post.  Thank you.

 

I was there on opening day in 1988, May Day, and I was there last year.  She is still the belle of the ball in the minors.

 

Additionally, winning may be secondary, but somebody has to win and somebody is winning.  I just know it is never the Bisons.  Please keep in mind that while lauding Toronto we now are with an organization that has provided us with 6 straight non-playoff season, likely going on 7, and they haven't even fielded a winning record since 2014.

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

Yeah, as much as I was a huge Bisons fan back when I lived there, minor league baseball isn't about winning/losing games. It's for developing individual skills in game settings. A farm systems success isn't based on wins/losses, but how many players come through the system and become successful players in the show. 

 

If you want to see good teams, get with a small market MLB team. They need to pair someone that relies more on their farm system than free agent players. That's why were were so good with Cleveland, and terrible with the Mets and Blue Jays. Cleveland's move to Columbus was just as much about the new stadium, as it was about expanding their fanbase to Columbus, which was about half Reds half Indians.

 

Although we're not the best facility in the minors anymore, we're still up there, despite the age of our stadium.

[Mark80]

Bichette Jr?  Biggio?  Those are top prospects.  Bichette Jr is ranked in the top 10.  I go for the prospects on the Bison's or the visiting team.  I really don't care if the Bison's make the playoffs.

 

The Blue Jays lost a lot of prospects making a run at it a few years back.  It depleted the entire system.  They seemed to have learned from their mistakes and are currently one of the best systems.  It takes time though.  Most young studs are in A, A+, or Double A ball, not AAA.  You get brief stints of young guys in AAA, that's about it.  Hard to compete W/L wise in the minors when your best guys are getting called up in their teens and early 20s.  I don't think AAA W/L is a reflection of the minor league system at all really.  Its more a reflection of major league depth and lack of injuries.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Mark80

[May Day 10]

it was very significant and influential in its time.  It transitioned from the multi-purpose boxy ballparks of the 70s (and skydome) to the retro-craze, which brought us Camden Yards and Jacobs Field, among others, which spun into many ballparks that have a modern/retro look.

 

Its nice, but it is wearing down a bit and showing its age.  Some of these ballparks going up now are breathtaking, even at a Class A level.... although a cant speak from a standpoint of players' facilities.  I do have experience with the past working for the Bisons, but no idea comparatively.  Pilot Field is also too big for AAA baseball.  By a good margin, it is the largest AAA ballpark, and more often than not, it feels cavernous and sparsely populated.... whereas elsewhere, 10,000 people is a sellout and people get excited and might get into the game.

 

Charlotte's looks amazing

 

Columbus

 

Indianapolis (awesome grassy, picnic style GA area through the outfield)

 

El Paso

 

Durham Athletic Park (the Bull in left field)

 

Orem Owlz

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Pilot Field grabbed minor league baseball by the scruff of the neck, and said “This is how you do it!”  Subsequent parks in subsequent cities had the bar raised by Buffalo’s stadium.  And after watching some of the shenanigans in politics and developments in WNY in the 60s and 70s, I was truly amazed how governments and private sectors pulled together to make the ballpark a reality.

[dpberr]

While I'm not a Phillies fan, I feel the Phillies are one of the MLB teams that gets their minor league "experience" right consistently. I believe the Reading/Philadelphia affiliation is the oldest affiliation in all of minor league baseball.  That certainly has built a consistent following.   The Iron Pigs play in a absolute gem of a ballpark.  

 

Both their AA and AAA teams are often tops in attendance and they appear to make very strategic decisions on who manages the team.  It's not a new person every year.  There's some consistency in the corporate knowledge and the program so yo usually get some decent baseball.  

[The Senator]

10 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

it was very significant and influential in its time.  It transitioned from the multi-purpose boxy ballparks of the 70s (and skydome) to the retro-craze, which brought us Camden Yards and Jacobs Field, among others, which spun into many ballparks that have a modern/retro look.

 

Its nice, but it is wearing down a bit and showing its age.  Some of these ballparks going up now are breathtaking, even at a Class A level.... although a cant speak from a standpoint of players' facilities.  I do have experience with the past working for the Bisons, but no idea comparatively.  Pilot Field is also too big for AAA baseball.  By a good margin, it is the largest AAA ballpark, and more often than not, it feels cavernous and sparsely populated.... whereas elsewhere, 10,000 people is a sellout and people get excited and might get into the game.

 

Wasn’t the reason Pilot Field so large because we thought Bob Rich Jr. was going to buy the Expos and move ‘em here?  The place was built so it could be expanded to 40,000 in  one off-season.

 

As I recall, Rich balked at the $85M price tag, and things fell apart.

 

Imagine if you could buy an MLB team for $85M today!!!

.

 

 

[May Day 10]

10 minutes ago, The Senator said:

 

Wasn’t the reason Pilot Field so large because we thought Bob Rich Jr. was going to buy the Expos and move ‘em here?  The place was built so it could be expanded to 40,000 in  one off-season.

 

As I recall, Rich balked at the $85M price tag, and things fell apart.

 

Imagine if you could buy an MLB team for $85M today!!!

.

 

 

 

He was shooting for the Rockies/Marlins expansion. (would have been in place of the Rockies because the state of FLA was all but guaranteed a team.)

 

Buffalo was basically among 3 finalists for the other expansion team.  The expansion fee was $95 Million which gave Bob Rich cold feet.  It was probably a good thing because the players salaries skyrocketed at about that point.

 

The stadium was built so the roof can be removed for a large 3rd deck, and the Right Field seats were going to be much more expansive.  I think it would have seated 40k?

 

 

 

It is lesser-known, but the Riches had some informal talks at the time about moving the Giants here to become the "New York Giants".

 

 

 

Buffalo was actually falsely reported to have been awarded an expansion team in 1969 along with San Diego.  Montreal was awarded that team instead.

Edited April 22, 2019 by May Day 10

[The Senator]

2 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

He was shooting for the Rockies/Marlins expansion. (would have been in place of the Rockies because the state of FLA was all but guaranteed a team.)

 

Buffalo was basically among 3 finalists for the other expansion team.  The expansion fee was $95 Million which gave Bob Rich cold feet.  It was probably a good thing because the players salaries skyrocketed at about that point.

 

The stadium was built so the roof can be removed for a large 3rd deck, and the Right Field seats were going to be much more expansive.  I think it would have seated 40k?

 

 

 

It is lesser-known, but the Riches had some informal talks at the time about moving the Giants here to become the "New York Giants".

 

Good info - thanks.

 

I don’t think WNY baseball fans could support a major league team with today’s ticket prices multiplied by 81 home games.  (We barely support the Bisons.)

 

Glad the Giants thing didn’t happen.  They love ‘em out in the Bay area, and I enjoyed going when I lived there.

 

(Plus, everyone would be referring to the NY ‘Baseball’ Giants and the NY ‘Football’ Giants)

.

[apuszczalowski]

You should probably consider yourself lucky the Jay's are their affiliate because the guys in charge care more about their minor league prospects and system then they do the major league team. Also, IIRC, the guys currently in charge of the Jay's are the guys who were in Charge of the Indians for some of their time being the Bisons parent club). The Jay's have one of the top farm systems in the MLB (atleast that's what Jay's fans keep telling anyone who dares complain about the product currently on the field)

 

Minor league baseball isnt about winning or losing, it's about player development and preparing guys for the majors or storing depth until needed. AAA is also the level which is mostly made up with guys fighting to make the MLB transition, older players trying to work their way back into the majors, or MLB players rehabbing injuries. Teams better young prospects are usually held at the AA level longer because of the competition. 

 

Lower level sports is always cyclical too, they may be good for a few seasons, but then those players get moved up and the team usually goes bad for a few years while the new crop.of talent gets better, then they get called up.

 

Bisons fans should feel lucky, the Jay's management is doing everything they can to leave 'The Saviour/Great One' down in AAA as long as possible........

[Buffalo716]

3 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

Its tough.  They had it so good with Cleveland, and before that, Pittsburgh. 

 

Winning in minor leagues has become so secondary too.  Everything is on a pitch count, it seems the players dont care about winning... and games are nothing but peripheral events that happen to occur while something else is going on like Star Wars Day.  The games themselves stink, and the "playoffs" are usually skeletal versions of the team after the MLB September call-ups happen.

 

And, prepare to feel old, but Pilot Field is no longer the crown jewel of the Minors, nor the International League.  It is actually the oldest IL ballpark I believe.  Cleveland pulled out of Buffalo in part because Columbus was opening a nicer facility (and they wanted to regionalize a bit in Ohio).

 

 

I think Toronto may be a decent team to partner with, based on how they are forced to perpetually rebuild.  The Bisons just caught them at a point where they were actually trying to compete for a few seasons and emptied the cupboard.  Proximity is good as well.

Sahlen stadium is definitely the crown jewel of minor league baseball stadiums 

 

It is by far the biggest ballpark and they average the most attendance and it’s still a pretty park

Edited April 22, 2019 by Buffalo716

[Nextmanup]

2 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

it was very significant and influential in its time.  It transitioned from the multi-purpose boxy ballparks of the 70s (and skydome) to the retro-craze, which brought us Camden Yards and Jacobs Field, among others, which spun into many ballparks that have a modern/retro look.

 

Its nice, but it is wearing down a bit and showing its age.  Some of these ballparks going up now are breathtaking, even at a Class A level.... although a cant speak from a standpoint of players' facilities.  I do have experience with the past working for the Bisons, but no idea comparatively.  Pilot Field is also too big for AAA baseball.  By a good margin, it is the largest AAA ballpark, and more often than not, it feels cavernous and sparsely populated.... whereas elsewhere, 10,000 people is a sellout and people get excited and might get into the game.

 

Charlotte's looks amazing

 

Columbus

 

Indianapolis (awesome grassy, picnic style GA area through the outfield)

 

El Paso

 

Durham Athletic Park (the Bull in left field)

 

Orem Owlz

 

I live about 10 minutes drive from Roger Dean Stadium these days.  This is in Palm Beach County, FL.  

 

It hosts FOUR different baseball teams, including 2 "A" ball teams.

 

It is also Spring training headquarters for the Miami Marlins and St. Louis Cardinals.

 

It is a small stadium but quite nice and clean, situated in the middle of a nice housing development area.

 

https://rogerdeanchevroletstadium.com

 

[May Day 10]

21 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Sahlen stadium is definitely the crown jewel of minor league baseball stadiums 

 

It is by far the biggest ballpark and they average the most attendance and it’s still a pretty park

 

I disagree.  And I believe they were 5th or 6th in IL attendance last season, with about half-capacity as an average.  Paid tickets dependably average roughly 8K/game for the Bisons.

 

It is still considered a nice ballpark, but many have exceeded it with amenities, site lines, comfort, and backdrop.  The 190 and industry isn't real pretty of a backdrop now that the envelope has been pushed by most of these places, (and no large scale development has happened S and E of the Ballpark.)

Edited April 22, 2019 by May Day 10

[Buffalo716]

13 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

I disagree.  And I believe they were 5th or 6th in IL attendance last season, with about half-capacity as an average.  Paid tickets dependably average roughly 8K/game for the Bisons.

 

It is still considered a nice ballpark, but many have exceeded it with amenities, site lines, comfort, and backdrop.  The 190 and industry isn't real pretty of a backdrop now that the envelope has been pushed by most of these places, (and no large scale development has happened S and E of the Ballpark.)

‘Rome wasn’t built in a day and Buffalo will not be rebuilt over night either 

 

this city was in a major downward spiral for close to half a century... it’s on the up and up finally

[apuszczalowski]

29 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

I disagree.  And I believe they were 5th or 6th in IL attendance last season, with about half-capacity as an average.  Paid tickets dependably average roughly 8K/game for the Bisons.

 

It is still considered a nice ballpark, but many have exceeded it with amenities, site lines, comfort, and backdrop.  The 190 and industry isn't real pretty of a backdrop now that the envelope has been pushed by most of these places, (and no large scale development has happened S and E of the Ballpark.)

8k? That is close to competing with both Florida MLB teams......

[dollars 2 donuts]

4 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

it was very significant and influential in its time.  It transitioned from the multi-purpose boxy ballparks of the 70s (and skydome) to the retro-craze, which brought us Camden Yards and Jacobs Field, among others, which spun into many ballparks that have a modern/retro look.

 

Its nice, but it is wearing down a bit and showing its age.  Some of these ballparks going up now are breathtaking, even at a Class A level.... although a cant speak from a standpoint of players' facilities.  I do have experience with the past working for the Bisons, but no idea comparatively.  Pilot Field is also too big for AAA baseball.  By a good margin, it is the largest AAA ballpark, and more often than not, it feels cavernous and sparsely populated.... whereas elsewhere, 10,000 people is a sellout and people get excited and might get into the game.

 

Charlotte's looks amazing

 

Columbus

 

Indianapolis (awesome grassy, picnic style GA area through the outfield)

 

El Paso

 

Durham Athletic Park (the Bull in left field)

 

Orem Owlz

 

 

 

May Day...not gonna lie...I dig some of those houses!

 

I want to go to the ball park right now!

 

[That's No Moon]

AAA baseball has changed a lot in the 30 years since Pilot Field opened. Lots of top prospects skip the level entirely and those who do play AAA ball tend to not play there very long.  In that way it matters less about the quality of the farm system and more on the quality of the non-prospect roster players and fringe MLB pitchers at the AAA level. For better or worse, the AAA is the least relevant level to the parent club now.

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

AAA baseball has changed a lot in the 30 years since Pilot Field opened. Lots of top prospects skip the level entirely and those who do play AAA ball tend to not play there very long.  In that way it matters less about the quality of the farm system and more on the quality of the non-prospect roster players and fringe MLB pitchers at the AAA level. For better or worse, the AAA is the least relevant level to the parent club now.

 

Yup. AA ball is where it's at. I live in NH where the Eastern League Fishercats play, the stop below Buffalo.  Many of our players skip AAA and head right to Toronto.

 

 

I did have a thought. If the Pegulas ever build a stadium with a roof downtown, would it be worth having a baseball configuration just to play the first 6 weeks of the season indoors?

Edited April 22, 2019 by PromoTheRobot