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Is Dion Dawkins better at LT or LG

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3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He wasn’t “fine” last year.  He was awful. 

 

I don't think he was either fine or awful. The truth is somewhere between the two.

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8 hours ago, MJS said:

Any claim that he would be better at guard is complete speculation. What do we know? He can hold his own at LT, the most important position on the line. I think the Bills would be foolish to move him unless they have a sure fire, proven (in the NFL) upgrade at LT.

This makes complete sense.  I do not understand the voices to move him without a better replacement.  

 

It is also easier to find a G than a LT so focus on G.

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2 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said:

This makes complete sense.  I do not understand the voices to move him without a better replacement.  

 

It is also easier to find a G than a LT so focus on G.

 

I don't think they should. If they can get an upgrade at LT they should take him. If they can't keep Dawkins there and focus on upgrading at guard.

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16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think he was either fine or awful. The truth is somewhere between the two.

Gunner, in this country, you only have two choices.  Everything is either the worse or best, black or white, wrong or right.  There is no such thing as gray areas.

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1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No he wasn't. He was the LT at Temple. I do think he is an average to just above average LT and that is probably his ceiling there whereas he has all pro potential at guard.

I guess the other thing to think about is if you’re Dawkins, why would you ever be ok moving from T to G, especially LT?  An average LT makes more than a good G.  This could be a mini Peters type situation. 

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5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I guess the other thing to think about is if you’re Dawkins, why would you ever be ok moving from T to G, especially LT?  An average LT makes more than a good G.  This could be a mini Peters type situation. 

 

As Badol has said - he kind of opened himself up to it with his admission about his play this year. If the Bills want to do it I think they kind of have a window. But clearly they need to have an answer at LT before they do that.

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Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

As Badol has said - he kind of opened himself up to it with his admission about his play this year. If the Bills want to do it I think they kind of have a window. But clearly they need to have an answer at LT before they do that.

I hate to say it, but if he got moved to G, and I was his agent, I’d wait until after the draft and free agency and have him hold out.  It sucks but it’s still a business.  

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1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I hate to say it, but if he got moved to G, and I was his agent, I’d wait until after the draft and free agency and have him hold out.  It sucks but it’s still a business.  

 

The Bills can't renegotiate his contract yet. You have to have played 3 years. So holding out just means a year he isn't accruing. There is zero benefit to it. It is why if the Bills are doing it they have to do it this year.

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4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Bills can't renegotiate his contract yet. You have to have played 3 years. So holding out just means a year he isn't accruing. There is zero benefit to it. It is why if the Bills are doing it they have to do it this year.

Good post.  But that move inside could cost him a lot of money in the future.

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3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Good post.  But that move inside could cost him a lot of money in the future.

 

Could. But if he is a potentially elite guard (as many think) then it won't cost him money compared to being an average tackle. Middle of the league LT money is in that $9m-$12m range. Top end LG money is in that $10-13m range. He knows he wasn't better than a middle of the league LT in 2018 - he has said it himself.

 

Again it only becomes a question if the Bills think they can upgrade at LT and I don't immediately see who that guy is myself. Williams, Little, Dillard? Hmm. Not convinced.

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He's a LG. He plays a lot like Rodger Saffold. I'd bet he could be one of the best LG's in the league.

Edited by CuddyDark

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It's a tricky dynamic here. While I think he could be a stud LG, I think he's fine as an LT and he's playing on a rookie contract at a premium position. I'd be inclined to keep him at LT and allocate resources at guard. I happen to think Teller is a player, so I believe we only need one G. 

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On 2/10/2019 at 9:48 AM, QuoteTheRaven83 said:

Teller is fine at LG. I think Dawkins should move to RT, sign a C and RG, draft a LT. 

Dawkins didnt look so hot at RT when they tried him there

 

No need to pound a square block into a round hole

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1 hour ago, NewEra said:

He wasn’t “fine” last year.  He was awful. 

I never said he was fine last year. Just that he’s a fine tackle. They all sucked last year. He’s a young guy and acknowledged he was bad last year and needs to be better. He’s the least of the worries on the line 

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3 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I never said he was fine last year. Just that he’s a fine tackle. They all sucked last year. He’s a young guy and acknowledged he was bad last year and needs to be better. He’s the least of the worries on the line 

He’s the least of the worries but he plays the most important position, Josh Allen’s blindside. 

 

Im not saying he’s doomed.  He has a chance to be a solid starting LT.  He has the attributes.  I’m just saying that he wasn’t good at all last year.  Maybe I went overboard with saying he was awful.  I think he’s been a pass due to everyone else being so bad.  He’s known as our most talented OLmen, yet he performed nearly as bad as the much less talented players and had the 4th most penalties in the league among OL.  He’s no sure thing and he protects our franchise blindside.   I’d prefer that we had a stud LT and moved Dawkins elsewhere as it stands right now, but the free agent market and draft is stronger at RT and interior than LT. 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He’s the least of the worries but he plays the most important position, Josh Allen’s blindside. 

 

Im not saying he’s doomed.  He has a chance to be a solid starting LT.  He has the attributes.  I’m just saying that he wasn’t good at all last year.  Maybe I went overboard with saying he was awful.  I think he’s been a pass due to everyone else being so bad.  He’s known as our most talented OLmen, yet he performed nearly as bad as the much less talented players and had the 4th most penalties in the league among OL.  He’s no sure thing and he protects our franchise blindside.   I’d prefer that we had a stud LT and moved Dawkins elsewhere as it stands right now, but the free agent market and draft is stronger at RT and interior than LT. 

 

 

Depending on the draft and free agency we’ll see where he settles on the line, but he’s also the only guaranteed starter. It’s hard to consider a move until they fill out these other positions and we see who we can get. 

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20 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Gunner beat me to it but you must be thinking of someone else. 

 

20 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No he wasn't. He was the LT at Temple. I do think he is an average to just above average LT and that is probably his ceiling there whereas he has all pro potential at guard.

Yes, you're right he did play tackle (most of the time), but he was the second guard taken (and listed as such) in the NFL draft and moved to guard in the Senior Bowl.  I consider him a guard coming out of college.

Edited by Spielman

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18 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Good post.  But that move inside could cost him a lot of money in the future.

Don’t compare his situation to Peters, though. Peters was wa dominant player for the Bills and a lot better than Dawkins.

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20 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Don’t compare his situation to Peters, though. Peters was wa dominant player for the Bills and a lot better than Dawkins.

Dawkins is good but you are totally correct. He is not on the same planet with Jason Peters.

 

Imo the most interesting (not the best) player in this draft is Jonah Williams who might be similar in some ways to Dawkins. I will get into this more as the draft approaches.

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48 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Don’t compare his situation to Peters, though. Peters was wa dominant player for the Bills and a lot better than Dawkins.

Of course, Peters is the better player. I was referring to the situation as being somewhat similar in terms of position moves.  The Bills gave Peters a solid contract after a year of playing RT. He moved to LT, was great, and immediately debated a LT salary.  

 

Look at the a erave salaries by position:  https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/. $8 million for a LT, $5 million for a RT, and $3 million for a G.  If I was him or his agent, I won’t just let a position switch happen. 

28 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Dawkins is good but you are totally correct. He is not on the same planet with Jason Peters.

 

Imo the most interesting (not the best) player in this draft is Jonah Williams who might be similar in some ways to Dawkins. I will get into this more as the draft approaches.

I have a problem knowing how good Alabama o line and slime players are because they are completely surrounded by 5 star players.  A lot of guys who would be very average nfl players could be very good at Alabama.  Isn’t there a knock on Williams’ arm length?  Also, is he a grinder?  

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20 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think he was either fine or awful. The truth is somewhere between the two.

He wasn't awful at all. 

 

He had a rough 2nd year but was by no means awful. 

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8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Of course, Peters is the better player. I was referring to the situation as being somewhat similar in terms of position moves.  The Bills gave Peters a solid contract after a year of playing RT. He moved to LT, was great, and immediately debated a LT salary.  

 

Look at the a erave salaries by position:  https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/. $8 million for a LT, $5 million for a RT, and $3 million for a G.  If I was him or his agent, I won’t just let a position switch happen. 

I have a problem knowing how good Alabama o line and slime players are because they are completely surrounded by 5 star players.  A lot of guys who would be very average nfl players could be very good at Alabama.  Isn’t there a knock on Williams’ arm length?  Also, is he a grinder?  

Williams has perfect feet and technique. He can roll out and pull very well. In his first year he played RT and was great on running downs in a completely different offense. He is also a very smart kid.

Is he big and strong enough to be a star NFL LT? I am not sure yet. His combine numbers will be telling. Even without seeing his combine stats, I predict that his floor will be that of a better Andy Levitre, who also played LT in college and imo was a terrific player for a while. I think that Williams would be a pro bowl level guard, but what do I know?

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58 minutes ago, Spielman said:

 

Yes, you're right he did play tackle (most of the time), but he was the second guard taken (and listed as such) in the NFL draft and moved to guard in the Senior Bowl.  I consider him a guard coming out of college.

 

I had him graded a "Guard with some tackle flex" as well. Not doubting that a lot of people projected him as guard or that he would likely be better there. I agree with that. But he played almost exclusively at LT at Temple.

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1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

Williams has perfect feet and technique. He can roll out and pull very well. In his first year he played RT and was great on running downs in a completely different offense. He is also a very smart kid.

Is he big and strong enough to be a star NFL LT? I am not sure yet. His combine numbers will be telling. Even without seeing his combine stats, I predict that his floor will be that of a better Andy Levitre, who also played LT in college and imo was a terrific player for a while. I think that Williams would be a pro bowl level guard, but what do I know?

 

I think Jonah can be an all-pro center. His ability to re-direct and roll his hips on contact is ideal for the pivot spot.

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2 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

 

Imo the most interesting (not the best) player in this draft is Jonah Williams who might be similar in some ways to Dawkins. I will get into this more as the draft approaches.

 

Yea to me Williams is pretty similar to Dion. A bit more polished coming out, more consistent on film but with some similar strengths and weaknesses and in the same "great guard prospect with tackle flex" category for me.

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