jkeerie Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Logic said: Lots of others. There's a pretty large contingent of dissatisfied/disappointed people out there in Game of Thrones internet land today... If you're dissatisfied with something you tend to be more vocal. I'm sorry that you and they were disappointed. There were just as many fans who found the ending very satisfying. In my case, even though I knew from earlier in the episode that it would be Arya who got to the NK, in that scene there were a couple of moments. Some have already been alluded to. 1. As the NK is standing in front of Bran and Bran finally turns to him, you see the NK tilt his head ever so slightly. (Like: "Am I missing something?") 2. Then the WW turns as if he's seen something or heard something. 3. Arya suddenly springs from out of nowhere. But the NK turns and catches her by the throat and you see her drop the dagger. I'm thinking "Oh, no..." (I had totally forgotten the fight scene with Brienne.) 4. Arya catches the dagger, you see the look on her face, and Game Over. (At least this one, there's more Game to come). Now I'm remembering the scene with Brienne. The subtleties in this episode...in this entire series are incredible...and just as important as the dialogue and spectacle. Again...we'll all just agree to disagree. Edited April 29, 2019 by jkeerie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 For those who are hyper-critical of that episode... let's take a step back and consider what we have here. This is a TELEVISION SHOW. Not Star Wars. Not Avengers: Infinity War. It's a TV show. Like Grey's Anatomy or CSI. People's expectations on production quality are grossly high. It's amazing what they have done for a freaking 1-hr TV episode. Cut them some slack. We are only seeing maybe 9 hours of the lives of 20-30 people. You can't show everything. Your preference for which specific 9 hours you want to see isn't my preference isn't the storytellers preference. Storylines... There are an infinite number of ways for a story to be developed. Only the limits of the human imagination restrict us. Could they have chosen better ones? Their story vs an infinite number of variations? I'll take the field that there are better ones. That doesn't mean you can't enjoy the one they settled on. 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted April 29, 2019 Author Share Posted April 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, Logic said: Yeah. How dare people have their own opinions about a television show. The nerve. LOL the same way people (in general) can't accept that some people loved the show and choose to "ignore" the obvious flaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 1 minute ago, eball said: I'm surprised how little play Jorah's death is receiving. He was a major character completely devoted to Dany. Along with Theon, we saw two of the biggest redemption stories of the entire series meet their ends in heroic ways. But "not enough major characters died." Umm, ok. I kind of get it that people really expected more major characters to die but then who moves the last 3 episodes story line? There is still 3+ hours to this story. That is why GOT is so mind blowing to me. These are basically movies we get to watch each week and there is still quite a bit left to play out. Jorah had a perfect death as did Lyanna Mormont imo. Very fitting to their characters. Theon's was a bit odd to me though. Did he really think he could charge 100+ yards at the NK? Or was he just happy dying there? It would have been hilarious if he just turned tail and ran a la Yara's capture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted April 29, 2019 Author Share Posted April 29, 2019 We ALL know the saying Cut the head off a snake killing the KN is the best way to end the war .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 As an aside I highly recommend watching this show with Closed Caption on. There are a lot of subtleties and quiet dialogue that I would have missed throughout. I started watching all tv with sub titles after my daughter was born and I have just left them on. GOT they are fantastic and helped me understand so much more (imo). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 Just now, section122 said: As an aside I highly recommend watching this show with Closed Caption on. There are a lot of subtleties and quiet dialogue that I would have missed throughout. I started watching all tv with sub titles after my daughter was born and I have just left them on. GOT they are fantastic and helped me understand so much more (imo). It probably aids in memory retention too, but I imagine you miss a lot of imagery with your eyes focused on the text all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 1 minute ago, eball said: I'm surprised how little play Jorah's death is receiving. He was a major character completely devoted to Dany. Along with Theon, we saw two of the biggest redemption stories of the entire series meet their ends in heroic ways. But "not enough major characters died." Umm, ok. It's pretty simple. If you want people to believe that this is the biggest, baddest battle thats ever been fought in the GOT universe -- and clearly they wanted people to believe that, as it was the longest battle scene ever in TV or film and they spent an insane amount of money, time, and buildup on it -- then you need to have some serious human collateral. Jorah and Theon and Dondarion died, fine. You mean to tell me the episode wouldn't have been more memorable and taken more of an emotional toll if one or two more key people hadn't died? You mean to tell me you wouldn't have felt a greater payoff at Arya killing a thousands-of-years-old being if it had taken a bit more sacrifice to get to that point? You mean to tell me you're fine with the plot armor that all the main characters were wrapped in? When we last see Jaime, Brienne, Sam, they're all COVERED in un-dead soldiers, seemingly SECONDS away from death...and then like 30 minutes of the episode later...NK is killed and they're all fine? The way they portrayed that battle and the near-invincibility of the army of the dead and the wights, and it's unreasonable for me to think that a guy like Sam should have probably died? Or freaking Podrick? Or GREY WORM, post "We'll be happy on the beach together!" speech?! I mean...shoot. Like I said, we can all have our opinions. But to think its unreasonable to expect a bit more death in the supposed "biggest, baddest" battle ever fought? I don't see how that's so surprising. People needn't take the fact that some people were underwhelmed with the episode as an attack on them personally. I like Game of Thrones a lot. I will continue to watch it. I'm not trying to take the piss out of people's favorite pop culture thing. I just thought last night's episode had a lot of missed opportunities and was, overall, underwhelming. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 1 minute ago, SDS said: For those who are hyper-critical of that episode... let's take a step back and consider what we have here. This is a TELEVISION SHOW. Not Star Wars. Not Avengers: Infinity War. It's a TV show. Like Grey's Anatomy or CSI. People's expectations on production quality are grossly high. It's amazing what they have done for a freaking 1-hr TV episode. Cut them some slack. We are only seeing maybe 9 hours of the lives of 20-30 people. You can't show everything. Your preference for which specific 9 hours you want to see isn't my preference isn't the storytellers preference. Storylines... There are an infinite number of ways for a story to be developed. Only the limits of the human imagination restrict us. Could they have chosen better ones? Their story vs an infinite number of variations? I'll take the field that there are better ones. That doesn't mean you can't enjoy the one they settled on. Per your last two paragraphs, this is the double edged sword of creating a hugely successful and popular show. It creates the millions who become fans and follow it religiously, who invest themselves emotionally into various character arcs over the years. But the bi-products of that is those same legions of dedicated, emotionally invested fans create their own versions of plot and resolution, that they invariably become disappointed when things don't go as envisioned. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 Just now, ShadyBillsFan said: We ALL know the saying Cut the head off a snake killing the KN is the best way to end the war .... It was the only way and alluded to in episode 2. Jon and Dany planned to engage him in the air until the Dothraki all died (very cool scene was hoping they would come charging back with blue flamed swords though!). Made me laugh thinking of Mike Tyson's "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." I think Bran knew it too which is why he had his plan to bait the NK. I am stuck on the theory that he knew exactly how it would play out. Not only was it the same dagger but that is where he gave Arya the dagger as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 7 minutes ago, jkeerie said: The subtleties in this episode...in this entire series are incredible...and just as important as the dialogue and spectacle. Again...we'll all just agree to disagree. Actually, I agree with the first line. It is specifically the lack of follow-up on some of the nuance and subtleties of storytelling that have occurred over the years that directly LEAD to some of my disappointment. I didn't HATE it or anything, I just felt they missed some opportunities. Ever since the show surpassed the books, it has gradually lost some of its magic. That's to be expected. Benioff/Weiss are not George RR Martin. Some of what makes his early storytelling so great, though, is missing in these later seasons, as they have (by necessity) sped toward a conclusion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 4 hours ago, Nanker said: I missed the first part last night. Why did Clegane freeze in the hallway? The Hound's not too keen of fire. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 Just a quick break in the action here to ask the following: You're all already aware that Wun-Wun is named after Phil Simms, yes? I just learned this today. Cracked me up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, SDS said: It probably aids in memory retention too, but I imagine you miss a lot of imagery with your eyes focused on the text all the time. Tough for me to say as I have watched the entire thing twice, Season 7 a third time preparing for this season, and other episodes on their own a few times. Yes I do have a problem lol. They have some of the imagery in text as well that I would have missed without subtitles but I definitely see your point. Anyone doing a re-watch give it a shot. It really helped me trying to connect all the dots. Also 4 1/2 years later of consuming all tv this way I am well versed lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 To add: Budget for these Season 8 episodes are rumored to be around $15M. Solo: A Star Wars Story cost over $250 million. So yeah, the dragon scenes may not have been Lord of the Rings quality... I hope people stop expecting them to be and appreciate what they are trying to do for a TV series. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, stony said: The Hound's not too keen of fire. If I'm Kingsford charcoal, I'm on the phone with Hound's agents to discuss making him our spokesperson. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted April 29, 2019 Author Share Posted April 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, K-9 said: Per your last two paragraphs, this is the double edged sword of creating a hugely successful and popular show. It creates the millions who become fans and follow it religiously, who invest themselves emotionally into various character arcs over the years. But the bi-products of that is those same legions of dedicated, emotionally invested fans create their own versions of plot and resolution, that they invariably become disappointed when things don't go as envisioned. They know the end is near and they rushed it. They may already be working on the prequel where people have no expectations based on an unfinished 7 book novel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, Logic said: Actually, I agree with the first line. It is specifically the lack of follow-up on some of the nuance and subtleties of storytelling that have occurred over the years that directly LEAD to some of my disappointment. I didn't HATE it or anything, I just felt they missed some opportunities. Ever since the show surpassed the books, it has gradually lost some of its magic. That's to be expected. Benioff/Weiss are not George RR Martin. Some of what makes his early storytelling so great, though, is missing in these later seasons, as they have (by necessity) sped toward a conclusion. It does make me question why they wanted to limit the final season to just 6 episodes. Perhaps more could have been done had they not done so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 So how many survivors total are we thinking? 500? 1,000? 3,000? 5,000? It'll be interesting going forward to see who else joins the North/Dany. The cowards at House Glover remain unscathed and should join back up (maybe). Perhaps the Tully's, they never sent any men. Does Dorne come back into play? I know there's two dragons still, but they're going to need some bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted April 29, 2019 Author Share Posted April 29, 2019 6 minutes ago, section122 said: It was the only way and alluded to in episode 2. Jon and Dany planned to engage him in the air until the Dothraki all died (very cool scene was hoping they would come charging back with blue flamed swords though!). Made me laugh thinking of Mike Tyson's "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." I think Bran knew it too which is why he had his plan to bait the NK. I am stuck on the theory that he knew exactly how it would play out. Not only was it the same dagger but that is where he gave Arya the dagger as well. Exactly ... Or as some may know it ... The best laid plans go out the window when the first bullet is fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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