UCF- why not national champs?

[Orlando Tim]

I keep hearing strength of schedule but is there anything else that you can argue for keeping them out of top 4? SOS is the argument made by people whose main desire is too keep the big five in control. Truly that argument is built by people who simply do not want to actually work to check out all the true contenders.

[Bfanlc]

Do you have a good argument, besides them being undefeated against said wuss schedule, for them to be in the playoff?

[4merper4mer]

16 hours ago, Bfanlc said:

Do you have a good argument, besides them being undefeated against said wuss schedule, for them to be in the playoff?

They didn't schedule The Citadel?

[YoloinOhio]

If it expands to 8 they would have a chance but right now there aren’t even enough spots for all the power 5 champs. 

[Bfanlc]

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

They didn't schedule The Citadel?

Upgrade for their schedule?

[Cynical]

On 12/21/2018 at 8:04 PM, Buffalo Timmy said:

I keep hearing strength of schedule but is there anything else that you can argue for keeping them out of top 4? SOS is the argument made by people whose main desire is too keep the big five in control. Truly that argument is built by people who simply do not want to actually work to check out all the true contenders.

 

UCF is a top 4 cupcake. Probably number 1.

 

Not sure what you are arguing about.

 

5 hours ago, Bfanlc said:

Upgrade for their schedule?

 

Well, the did play South Carolina ..........

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.

.

.

.

.

.

.

State ...

Bulldogs.

[row_33]

Upstate Sourh Carolina 

 

[Orlando Tim]

On 12/22/2018 at 1:49 AM, Bfanlc said:

Do you have a good argument, besides them being undefeated against said wuss schedule, for them to be in the playoff?

You mean besides winning 25 in a row, a top 20 offense and defense, also Oklahoma has exactly one impressive win- WVU- and a loss. But generally someone has to actually lose before you have proof they should not be champs. But i appreciate you admitting that i am right.

On 12/22/2018 at 7:17 PM, YoloinOhio said:

If it expands to 8 they would have a chance but right now there aren’t even enough spots for all the power 5 champs. 

This is a reasonable argument but still keeps a team with 25 game win streak out of final four with a team with a loss in. I think that is unfair.

[Bfanlc]

40 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

You mean besides winning 25 in a row, a top 20 offense and defense, also Oklahoma has exactly one impressive win- WVU- and a loss. But generally someone has to actually lose before you have proof they should not be champs. But i appreciate you admitting that i am right.

Must be a female for you to get that in any way was a sign of you being right.

 

And that's a top 20 offense and def against that schedule??? Lol

[KD in CA]

Because we don't have a national championship in college football.   We have an invitation-only TV-money driven tournament where only a handful of teams are eligible to qualify.

[row_33]

2 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

Because we don't have a national championship in college football.   We have an invitation-only TV-money driven tournament where only a handful of teams are eligible to qualify.

 

I don’t even have a millionth of one percent of doubt that the best team in the country is in the playoff each year

 

 

 

And I would like to nurse and fester such a thought that it’s a farce....

 

 

[Ol Dirty B]

5 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

You mean besides winning 25 in a row, a top 20 offense and defense, also Oklahoma has exactly one impressive win- WVU- and a loss. But generally someone has to actually lose before you have proof they should not be champs. But i appreciate you admitting that i am right.

This is a reasonable argument but still keeps a team with 25 game win streak out of final four with a team with a loss in. I think that is unfair.

 

Well then critical thinking isnt your forte. I'd like to see them in it, but the conference is awful and they dont schedule Jack ***** out of conference either. 

 

You do know that whole stuff with the Gators right? They're refusing to play them. UCF was cool, they jumped the shark. They are undeserved arrogance and just want big pay checks. They're brand building right now, it wont work.

On 12/23/2018 at 12:51 AM, Cynical said:

 

UCF is a top 4 cupcake. Probably number 1.

 

Not sure what you are arguing about.

 

 

Well, the did play South Carolina ..........

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

State ...

Bulldogs.

 

He clearly has no clue what he is talking about. It's a cool story, but they dont want that business and they know it. They're feeding off of the punching up vs teams inactive bowl game vs a team that actually had a chance at the playoffs and blew it and are completely deflated.

 

They can get in the playoffs. It's actually really easy. Go to the swamp, go to to FSU, and go to Miami. Those teams weren't even that good this year, they could beat them. But they are embracing this Napoleon complex way too much and telling teams to come to them.

 

They'll be a 5-7 win team with a crap schedule within 2 years.

[row_33]

The NCAA will start an investigation like they do for all upstarts and WHAMMO!

 

 

[Cynical]

8 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Well then critical thinking isnt your forte. I'd like to see them in it, but the conference is awful and they dont schedule Jack ***** out of conference either. 

 

You do know that whole stuff with the Gators right? They're refusing to play them. UCF was cool, they jumped the shark. They are undeserved arrogance and just want big pay checks. They're brand building right now, it wont work.

 

He clearly has no clue what he is talking about. It's a cool story, but they dont want that business and they know it. They're feeding off of the punching up vs teams inactive bowl game vs a team that actually had a chance at the playoffs and blew it and are completely deflated.

 

They can get in the playoffs. It's actually really easy. Go to the swamp, go to to FSU, and go to Miami. Those teams weren't even that good this year, they could beat them. But they are embracing this Napoleon complex way too much and telling teams to come to them.

 

They'll be a 5-7 win team with a crap schedule within 2 years.

 

Pretty much.

UCF is pulling the same stunt Boise St did.

 

Look at us! Look at us! We are the shining new object!

 

In the end, they just want the money the exposure gives them.

They could care less about "respect" and "fairness".

 

[row_33]

1 hour ago, Cynical said:

 

Pretty much.

UCF is pulling the same stunt Boise St did.

 

Look at us! Look at us! We are the shining new object!

 

In the end, they just want the money the exposure gives them.

They could care less about "respect" and "fairness".

 

 

Boise made a legit run, thank goodness their kicker choked three times to keep them out

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

16 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

You mean besides winning 25 in a row, a top 20 offense and defense, also Oklahoma has exactly one impressive win- WVU- and a loss. But generally someone has to actually lose before you have proof they should not be champs. But i appreciate you admitting that i am right.

This is a reasonable argument but still keeps a team with 25 game win streak out of final four with a team with a loss in. I think that is unfair.

I would like to see an 8 team playoff with the five Power 5 champs, 2 at-large Power 5s and the highest ranked non-power 5. Top two ranked teams get 1st rd byes. 

 

Ive heard the non power 5 being included in a top 4 discussed a bit. The issue many point to is that while you might see one upset in a bowl  (I.e. Boise st over Oklahoma several years ago), that’s very difficult to replicate. And it’s not a one game tournament. Teams like UCF, despite their great run, still have less talent and depth and a different level of coaching staff than highly ranked power 5 teams. Unlike basketball where teams can just get hot and be a Cinderella, in football you would be very rare to see a team like that beat, say, Oklahoma and Bama in succession. What is UCF’s best win this season? Also keep in mind the win streak is great,  but the 2018 playoff is about this season only. 

 

At the end of the day the committee wants the 4 best teams. They do not want blowouts. And the top 3 are all undefeated, same as UCF. With Oklahoma, they have the heisman winner at QB, and they beat everyone on their schedule. They may have one 3 pt loss in a rivalry game but it was to the 9th ranked team in the country and they turned around and beat them in the Big 12 championship. I think they have the better chance to beat Bama in the playoff than UCF.

 

 

Edited December 24, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[Orlando Tim]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I would like to see an 8 team playoff with the five Power 5 champs, 2 at-large Power 5s and the highest ranked non-power 5. Top two ranked teams get 1st rd byes. 

 

Ive heard the non power 5 being included in a top 4 discussed a bit. The issue many point to is that while you might see one upset in a bowl  (I.e. Boise st over Oklahoma several years ago), that’s very difficult to replicate. And it’s not a one game tournament. Teams like UCF, despite their great run, still have less talent and depth and a different level of coaching staff than highly ranked power 5 teams. Unlike basketball where teams can just get hot and be a Cinderella, in football you would be very rare to see a team like that beat, say, Oklahoma and Bama in succession. What is UCF’s best win this season? Also keep in mind the win streak is great,  but the 2018 playoff is about this season only. 

 

At the end of the day the committee wants the 4 best teams. They do not want blowouts. And the top 3 are all undefeated, same as UCF. With Oklahoma, they have the heisman winner at QB, and they beat everyone on their schedule. They may have one 3 pt loss in a rivalry game but it was to the 9th ranked team in the country and they turned around and beat them in the Big 12 championship. I think they have the better chance to beat Bama in the playoff than UCF.

 

 

You and I disagree on a major point- they want big name schools- they do not care about blowouts- OU is not going to give Bama an issue and that is ok since their fans will already be watching. Lastly as for the " 4 best teams" that was not the argument till last year, before that it was best resume or best conference champs. But i know you are being honest which is i like discussing this.

[Orlando Tim]

 

16 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Well then critical thinking isnt your forte. I'd like to see them in it, but the conference is awful and they dont schedule Jack ***** out of conference either. 

 

You do know that whole stuff with the Gators right? They're refusing to play them. UCF was cool, they jumped the shark. They are undeserved arrogance and just want big pay checks. They're brand building right now, it wont work.

 

He clearly has no clue what he is talking about. It's a cool story, but they dont want that business and they know it. They're feeding off of the punching up vs teams inactive bowl game vs a team that actually had a chance at the playoffs and blew it and are completely deflated.

 

They can get in the playoffs. It's actually really easy. Go to the swamp, go to to FSU, and go to Miami. Those teams weren't even that good this year, they could beat them. But they are embracing this Napoleon complex way too much and telling teams to come to them.

 

They'll be a 5-7 win team with a crap schedule within 2 years.

One- where they are in two years in not part of this debate FSU is not good now and they were good for 20 years in a row. Second- they are ducking the gators? Are you ignorant of the offer? A 2 for 1 when UCF has been the superior team for that past two years and UF will have the right to buy out the game if they choose. UCF will take anyone on under a 1 for 1 set up. Third- their opponents were not stellar this year- but they only play who is on their schedule which did not matter for Bama last year when they beat zero top 15 teams last year before playoff and had a loss. But i have realized that most of the people who argue SOS are stuxk in 1995 when being top 10 was a big drop to 20- this year # 10 is gators who were stomped by mizzou. I can give ypu plenty of other arguments but why bother you will confirm your bias each step.

[row_33]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

You and I disagree on a major point- they want big name schools- they do not care about blowouts- OU is not going to give Bama an issue and that is ok since their fans will already be watching. Lastly as for the " 4 best teams" that was not the argument till last year, before that it was best resume or best conference champs. But i know you are being honest which is i like discussing this.

 

Each year presents its own fly in the ointment for the Committee of Excellence

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

41 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

You and I disagree on a major point- they want big name schools- they do not care about blowouts- OU is not going to give Bama an issue and that is ok since their fans will already be watching. Lastly as for the " 4 best teams" that was not the argument till last year, before that it was best resume or best conference champs. But i know you are being honest which is i like discussing this.

They do change the criteria every year, which is why there really is no criteria. The only real criteria that is put forth is the tiebreakers. This year, I’m not sure there were any real ties. The committee never seriously considered Ohio state or UCF. ESPN tried to make it seem like they considered Ohio state to get the fans to watch the selection show. They may have considered Georgia, but i feel like that was a made up talking point for drama purposes 

Edited December 25, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[row_33]

39 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

They do change the criteria every year, which is why there really is no criteria. The only real criteria that is put forth is the tiebreakers. This year, I’m not sure there were any real ties. The committee never seriously considered Ohio state or UCF. ESPN tried to make it seem like they considered Ohio state to get the fans to watch the selection show. They may have considered Georgia, but i feel like that was a made up talking point for drama purposes 

 

Arguing media goofballs to the point of breathlessness for a two loss Georgia was disgusting

 

 

Edited December 25, 2018 by row_33

[Cynical]

On 12/24/2018 at 7:23 PM, Buffalo Timmy said:

 

One- where they are in two years in not part of this debate FSU is not good now and they were good for 20 years in a row. Second- they are ducking the gators? Are you ignorant of the offer? A 2 for 1 when UCF has been the superior team for that past two years and UF will have the right to buy out the game if they choose. UCF will take anyone on under a 1 for 1 set up. Third- their opponents were not stellar this year- but they only play who is on their schedule which did not matter for Bama last year when they beat zero top 15 teams last year before playoff and had a loss. But i have realized that most of the people who argue SOS are stuxk in 1995 when being top 10 was a big drop to 20- this year # 10 is gators who were stomped by mizzou. I can give ypu plenty of other arguments but why bother you will confirm your bias each step.

 

1) Where a program will be in 2 years can be part of the debate. Since these agreements are for future games, that future being usually 2-3 years later. That's because the majority of the programs already have the next years schedule set, barring any last minute changes.

2) The argument of "A 2 for 1 when UCF has been the superior team for that past two years and UF will have the right to buy out the game if they choose" is a moot point. Multi-game agreements rarely, if ever, include the up coming season. See point 1 above for why.

3) Buyout clauses in these types of agreements are standard. They exist for both teams. Griping about how UF will have the ability to buy out the contract, is again moot. The agreement will have buy out clause for UCF. Buy outs are pretty common. Example: UCF had an agreement with UF to play games starting in 2006. UF blew out UCF 42-0 in 2006. UCF took the buy out for the 2007 game.

4)  " I can give ypu plenty of other arguments but why bother you will confirm your bias each step." Feel free to provide other arguments. All you keep doing is proving your bias.

 

Here's the real reason why UCF doesn't want to play 2-1: "[UCF AD Danny] White has made it clear he would prefer to schedule home-and-home series with Power 5 opponents because the school generates more revenue from a home game than it would from playing a payday game on the road."

It's all about the $$$$$.

[Orlando Tim]

20 hours ago, Cynical said:

 

1) Where a program will be in 2 years can be part of the debate. Since these agreements are for future games, that future being usually 2-3 years later. That's because the majority of the programs already have the next years schedule set, barring any last minute changes.

2) The argument of "A 2 for 1 when UCF has been the superior team for that past two years and UF will have the right to buy out the game if they choose" is a moot point. Multi-game agreements rarely, if ever, include the up coming season. See point 1 above for why.

3) Buyout clauses in these types of agreements are standard. They exist for both teams. Griping about how UF will have the ability to buy out the contract, is again moot. The agreement will have buy out clause for UCF. Buy outs are pretty common. Example: UCF had an agreement with UF to play games starting in 2006. UF blew out UCF 42-0 in 2006. UCF took the buy out for the 2007 game.

4)  " I can give ypu plenty of other arguments but why bother you will confirm your bias each step." Feel free to provide other arguments. All you keep doing is proving your bias.

 

Here's the real reason why UCF doesn't want to play 2-1: "[UCF AD Danny] White has made it clear he would prefer to schedule home-and-home series with Power 5 opponents because the school generates more revenue from a home game than it would from playing a payday game on the road."

It's all about the $$$$$.

We agree on the money part for all people considered. What you are pointing out that help my initial point is the insanity of using SOS as a major standard. Last year UCF could have played FSU, UF, and the Canes and likely had whooped all three. That though would not have helped their SOS because not one of them was truly good. The ACC is not very good but we recognize the talent of Clemson because they beat who this year? A bunch of 4 and 5 loss teams. I will admit i went into the weeds with the UF thing but my overall point is valid and you apparently agree- SOS is not something that can be adjusted by the team but is more luck of life 4 years prior.

[row_33]

They cynically did this in the 80s giving BYU the crown after the hard fought win over barely Bowl-eligible Michigan in a third tier bowl game.

 

the same stale SI garbage that promoted a division 3 RB as more derserving of the Heisman than Bo Jackson

 

 

[Bill from NYC]

On ‎12‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 1:54 PM, YoloinOhio said:

I would like to see an 8 team playoff with the five Power 5 champs, 2 at-large Power 5s and the highest ranked non-power 5. Top two ranked teams get 1st rd byes. 

 

 

Wouldn't this leave 5 teams in the second round?

[Orlando Tim]

16 minutes ago, row_33 said:

They cynically did this in the 80s giving BYU the crown after the hard fought win over barely Bowl-eligible Michigan in a third tier bowl game.

 

the same stale SI garbage that promoted a division 3 RB as more derserving of the Heisman than Bo Jackson

 

 

I am confused by what you mean by BYU- are you saying they were not best team in country- i was 6 so i do not remember.

11 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Wouldn't this leave 5 teams in the second round?

Stop using math?

[row_33]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I am confused by what you mean by BYU- are you saying they were not best team in country- i was 6 so i do not remember.

Stop using math?

 

BYU went undefeated with a joke schedule and conference and bowl game

 

and the media handed them the championship

 

 

[Orlando Tim]

10 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

BYU went undefeated with a joke schedule and conference and bowl game

 

and the media handed them the championship

 

 

But they had the most difficult schedule of all the undefeateds and beat the #3 team at the time of game. Who do you think was clearly better? Washington did not even win there conference.

[row_33]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

But they had the most difficult schedule of all the undefeateds and beat the #3 team at the time of game. Who do you think was clearly better? Washington did not even win there conference.

 

They were the only undefeated team that season 

 

the media boomers got a bit older and got very cynical about reporting, this and Bo Jackson atracks made them feel relevant again

 

thank goodness the internet came along and dethroned the three hacks at SI who ruled all thought in sports...

 

I like to think voting in BYU as a cynical joke was one major step towards a trans- conference title game 

 

1997, with both Michigan and Nebraska undefeated and off to separate bowls was the last straw in getting a real title game 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2018 by row_33

[Orlando Tim]

6 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

They were the only undefeated team that season 

 

the media boomers got a bit older and got very cynical about reporting, this and Bo Jackson atracks made them feel relevant again

 

thank goodness the internet came along and dethroned the three hacks at SI who ruled all thought in sports...

 

I like to think voting in BYU as a cynical joke was one major step towards a trans- conference title game 

 

1997, with both Michigan and Nebraska undefeated and off to separate bowls was the last straw in getting a real title game 

 

 

I understand your point but you still have not stated who was clearly better? A team that could not win its conference or nebraska who lost to a 7-6 team? Or someone who lost their bowl game? You are bashing them for their bowl game opponent which is set up prior to season.

[billspro]

If they beat LSU with a backup QB, they have an argument they are the best team in the nation.

[Perry Turtle]

The whole UCF argument is about the power 5 conferences trying keep their grip on the obscene amount of money college football generates.

 

UCF had a better claim to a seat at the playoff table last season when they kicked Auburn's ass in the Sugar Bowl after Auburn throttled Alabama (I know, I know, SEC hacks, Auburn wasn't trying it hardest).  Memphis and USF also had better seasons last year.  UCF also had it's starting QB all season.

 

This season, Milton's injury hurts their Bowl chances, but ragging on UCFs schedule is pretty ridiculous when Alabama scheduled Citadel the week before Auburn this year.

 

College football needs to expand its playoffs to 16 teams.  The Bowl season has become a joke and needs to have some games with some meaning injected into the schedule.  

 

Teams like UCF who built a solid program deserve to be able to compete for the rewards of exposure.

 

Or maybe people are happy with watching some combination of Alabama/ Clemson/ Notre Dame/ Georgia/ Oklahoma/ Ohio State play in the playoffs every year, augmented by abominations like the Cheez It bowl.

 

 

[Cynical]

5 hours ago, Perry Turtle said:

The whole UCF argument is about the power 5 conferences trying keep their grip on the obscene amount of money college football generates.

 

Here's a concept. Why don't the G5 teams band together, and petition the NCAA to create a new football division level just for them?

Then, they could do whatever they wanted without interference from the mean ole P5 teams.

They could call it the Cupcake Series. And they could play for their own national championship, the Golden Cupcake.

And every team gets to make the playoffs, and receive participation trophies, because that's only fair.

 

But back to a more serious side. Why don't the G5 teams petition the NCAA for own division?

If the G5 teams had their own division, they would be free of the constraints of the P5 teams.

 

5 hours ago, Perry Turtle said:

 

UCF had a better claim to a seat at the playoff table last season when they kicked Auburn's ass in the Sugar Bowl after Auburn throttled Alabama (I know, I know, SEC hacks, Auburn wasn't trying it hardest).  Memphis and USF also had better seasons last year.  UCF also had it's starting QB all season.

 

Is that why Auburn lost? And here I thought Gus Malzahn was just a crappy coach.

Silly me.

 

5 hours ago, Perry Turtle said:

 

This season, Milton's injury hurts their Bowl chances, but ragging on UCFs schedule is pretty ridiculous when Alabama scheduled Citadel the week before Auburn this year.

 

Oh, jeez. This old tired argument. Yet, not a peep about UCF playing South Carolina State.

 

5 hours ago, Perry Turtle said:

College football needs to expand its playoffs to 16 teams.  The Bowl season has become a joke and needs to have some games with some meaning injected into the schedule.  

 

Please explain why adding even more crappier teams fixes any problem? You think watching the #1 team slaughter the #16 team would add meaning?

Might as well watch the Cheez It bowl.

 

5 hours ago, Perry Turtle said:

 

Teams like UCF who built a solid program deserve to be able to compete for the rewards of exposure.

 

Sure, why not. Question: What are schools like UCF , and their fan base, doing to increase their teams exposure other than feeling entitled that P5 teams should give it to them?

 

5 hours ago, Perry Turtle said:

 

Or maybe people are happy with watching some combination of Alabama/ Clemson/ Notre Dame/ Georgia/ Oklahoma/ Ohio State play in the playoffs every year, augmented by abominations like the Cheez It bowl.

 

I agree. There are to many bowl games. Of course, the irony is, if it wasn't for the "Cheez It" bowls, the G5 teams would have even less exposure.

[Cynical]

On 12/27/2018 at 10:43 AM, Buffalo Timmy said:

But they had the most difficult schedule of all the undefeateds and beat the #3 team at the time of game. Who do you think was clearly better? Washington did not even win there conference.

 

For somebody who thinks it's insanity for SOS to be a major standard, you just used SOS to make your case.

[row_33]

26 minutes ago, Cynical said:

 

For somebody who thinks it's insanity for SOS to be a major standard, you just used SOS to make your case.

 

Logic takes a holiday

 

[Orlando Tim]

13 hours ago, Cynical said:

 

For somebody who thinks it's insanity for SOS to be a major standard, you just used SOS to make your case.

I said as the major standard- if you have multiple undefeateds then you must seperate somehow. Was this really your gotcha? Just stick with Auburn did not care about the peach bowl last year it is a much simpler argument.

[Nanker]

On 12/23/2018 at 9:30 PM, Buffalo Timmy said:

You mean besides winning 25 in a row, a top 20 offense and defense, also Oklahoma has exactly one impressive win- WVU- and a loss. But generally someone has to actually lose before you have proof they should not be champs. But i appreciate you admitting that i am right.

This is a reasonable argument but still keeps a team with 25 game win streak out of final four with a team with a loss in. I think that is unfair.

If they won 25 games this year, you might have a point. 

[row_33]

2 hours ago, Nanker said:

If they won 25 games this year, you might have a point. 

 

Nah, no consideration even if they won 25 games this year

[par73]

At this point, I'd give them a shot instead of perennially overrated ND and everyone from the Big 12.

[Orlando Tim]

3 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

Nah, no consideration even if they won 25 games this year

Row i understand- you decided in the preseason that they did not belong and no matter what happened this year you would not change your mind. 

1 minute ago, par73 said:

At this point, I'd give them a shot instead of perennially overrated ND and everyone from the Big 12.

You mean you are looking at the whole picture and not just SOS? I will take it