teef Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 jesus h. christ. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: Watch last game. Three at least. Was even worse when Benjamin was short arming everything. The difference between you and I is one of objectivity. I freely acknowledge Allen has a ways to go. He needs to continue working on his shorter passes as an example. But I also see the positives, and I understand the variables that account for this completion percentage stuff. You on the other hand made up your mind the day he was drafted he would not be good, and you either twist data to reach a preconceived conclusion or even worse deliberately misuse things to do the same. Your take on the throw to Clay over the middle Sunday was the most classic of many examples. Hit a guy in the hands in stride but yet you cling to the bizarre notion that somehow Allen was at fault. I mention this a lot but you wanted to trade an entire draft for Jamie's Winston. I think that calls into serious question your opinion on NFL quarterbacking in general. And with Allen it is exacerbated by your desire to be right vs. the desire to have a long term answer for QB. Allen is a rookie with8 games under his belt. He is nowhere near a finished product. Quit treating him like he is. You're literally relying on your own opinion as a reliable source for statistics, and you're lecturing me on "objectivity"? Holy crap. Allen is a starting QB in the NFL, and he's the worst passer in the league. Guys who suck as rookies rarely go on to be successful. There are a couple examples who did, but way more often than not the QBs who put up garbage passing numbers as rookies went on to be busts. Edited December 11, 2018 by jrober38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Bangarang said: Right, Allen made a great and precise throw. It was to the wrong team but man what a display of accuracy. He threw it where he wanted to throw it. But he never should have decided to throw it to begin with. accuracy is not decision making, decision making is not accuracy. Too complex for you I guess. 2 minutes ago, jrober38 said: You're literally relying on your own opinion as a reliable source for statistics, and you're lecturing me on "objectivity"? Holy crap. Where have I done that. I listed the drops this last game earlier in the thread and elsewhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: He threw it where he wanted to throw it. But he never should have decided to throw it to begin with. accuracy is not decision making, decision making is not accuracy. Too complex for you I guess. It must be fun living inside Allen’s head and knowing what he’s thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: He threw it where he wanted to throw it. But he never should have decided to throw it to begin with. accuracy is not decision making, decision making is not accuracy. Too complex for you I guess. Where have I done that. I listed the drops this last game earlier in the thread and elsewhere. Show some official stats. I don't care about which throws you think were drops. 4 drops in 1 game and 15 in 13 games doesn't add up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Just now, Bangarang said: It must be fun living inside Allen’s head and knowing what he’s thinking. I will give you that. If he was trying to throw it out of bounds and went inside then he was way off on accuracy. I just don't think you should confuse poor decision making with accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Bangarang said: It must be fun living inside Allen’s head and knowing what he’s thinking. Agreed. What he's saying doesn't make any sense. You can't argue that it was just a decision making issue, because if it was, Allen has no business being on the field if he's intentionally trying to throw the ball to the other team, which appears to be what is being argued in his defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 1 minute ago, jrober38 said: Show some official stats. I don't care about which throws you think were drops. 4 drops in 1 game and 15 in 13 games doesn't add up.... I reviewed every play last game, and did so with Houston. Listed the Houston ones earlier. Why do I have to use other's data? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Show some official stats. I don't care about which throws you think were drops. 4 drops in 1 game and 15 in 13 games doesn't add up.... Rodak had a stat the other day that percentage of passes dropped (I think thats what is was) was just over 5% and is second highest in the league outside of Bortles 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 I would argue the drops may not be significantly more, but they are not making tough catches either. If the ball is not placed on the numbers the passes are not caught. Allen's completion % is the result of his play. He has more air yardage per attempt than any other rookie. He will routinely give up 5 to get 20. I dont know how much of that I would change. He is not perfect and I dont want him playing this way in years 2 and 3. I'm excited to see how he performs with better pass catchers and a more dynamic rushing attack. To me his strengths out way his weaknesses. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Just now, oldmanfan said: I reviewed every play last game, and did so with Houston. Listed the Houston ones earlier. Why do I have to use other's data? Because it's objective. Generally speaking, when you want to talk about things that are charted as official stats by the NFL, it helps to actually use the official stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Bray Wyatt said: Rodak had a stat the other day that percentage of passes dropped (I think thats what is was) was just over 5% and is second highest in the league outside of Bortles I think the frustating thing to me is the guys that are dropping the passes are veterans like Clay Clay is SUPPOSED to be catching tough passes......he is a tight end for christ sake. That pass he dropped last game would have went for what....AT LEAST 30 yards? It would have probably gone for more then that because it was over the middle in stride...he may have actually scored? Give me some offensive playmakers on this team and I will show you a Josh Allen we can love Edited December 11, 2018 by John from Riverside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Bray Wyatt said: Rodak had a stat the other day that percentage of passes dropped (I think thats what is was) was just over 5% and is second highest in the league outside of Bortles Jacksonville has the most drops in the league with 28. We have 15 drops in 406 pass attempts, which is 3.7%. Jacksonville is up at 6%. I can't find drops by game, so maybe Allen has seen his receivers drop more passes than our other QBs, but I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Agreed. What he's saying doesn't make any sense. You can't argue that it was just a decision making issue, because if it was, Allen has no business being on the field if he's intentionally trying to throw the ball to the other team, which appears to be what is being argued in his defence. No differant than Farve. He had some terrible Ints. He would argue that it worked out more than not. Now Allen has 1000% faith in his arm. He thinks he can fit the ball in any window. That gets him in trouble. His pick was no better or worse than Russell Wilson last night. Imo Allen gets a little cocky with the cross body throws. This will tone him down a bit. The one that ended the game I dont hate. He threw a 1 on 1 ball when they needed a chunk play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Mat68 said: No differant than Farve. He had some terrible Ints. He would argue that it worked out more than not. Now Allen has 1000% faith in his arm. He thinks he can fit the ball in any window. That gets him in trouble. His pick was no better or worse than Russell Wilson last night. Imo Allen gets a little cocky with the cross body throws. This will tone him down a bit. The one that ended the game I dont hate. He threw a 1 on 1 ball when they needed a chunk play. He needs to ditch the hero ball asap. He made the terrible pick, and literally made the exact same throw later in the game when we were backed up by our own end zone and that one luckily fell incomplete. The pick that ended the game was inexcusable. As film shows, he double clutches it, knows it's not there, and throws it anyways even though Murhphy is leaking out of the backfield wide open. As McDermott has been saying all year, Allen needs to figure out how to take what the defense is giving him. He can't just keep throwing passes into coverage and hoping his guy will make a play when the defender is in perfect position to break it up or intercept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 1 minute ago, jrober38 said: He needs to ditch the hero ball asap. He made the terrible pick, and literally made the exact same throw later in the game when we were backed up by our own end zone and that one luckily fell incomplete. The pick that ended the game was inexcusable. As film shows, he double clutches it, knows it's not there, and throws it anyways even though Murhphy is leaking out of the backfield wide open. As McDermott has been saying all year, Allen needs to figure out how to take what the defense is giving him. He can't just keep throwing passes into coverage and hoping his guy will make a play when the defender is in perfect position to break it up or intercept it. Rookies throw interceptions He will learn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Just now, jrober38 said: He needs to ditch the hero ball asap. He made the terrible pick, and literally made the exact same throw later in the game when we were backed up by our own end zone and that one luckily fell incomplete. The pick that ended the game was inexcusable. As film shows, he double clutches it, knows it's not there, and throws it anyways even though Murhphy is leaking out of the backfield wide open. As McDermott has been saying all year, Allen needs to figure out how to take what the defense is giving him. He can't just keep throwing passes into coverage and hoping his guy will make a play when the defender is in perfect position to break it up or intercept it. Your never gonna get that out of him. That's what allows to make that attempt to Clay in Miami. His wr dont have the ability to make catches on one-one coverage that's on the Wr corp. Back shoulder fades he throws well. He just doesnt have anyone who can make those plays. Those plays you see Wrs make all over the league every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Rookies throw interceptions He will learn Why even bother? You will just get a headache from the proverbial beating your head against a wall.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Mat68 said: Your never gonna get that out of him. That's what allows to make that attempt to Clay in Miami. His wr dont have the ability to make catches on one-one coverage that's on the Wr corp. Back shoulder fades he throws well. He just doesnt have anyone who can make those plays. Those plays you see Wrs make all over the league every week. Allen is good at throwing the ball hard. It's the rest of the throws he makes that are less reliable at finding their target in the right spot. I fully agree that our pass catchers aren't good, but they've been better lately. Once we got rid of Benjamin, Pryor and Holmes I think they've been a bit more productive. Foster can play, Jones is decent in the slot and McKenzie has been a spark plug in the offense. They're not good, but they do get open pretty reliably, albeit mostly against zone coverage. We need better players and Allen needs to figure out how to consistently throw with touch. Those are the keys to next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 We don't know if he will stop making the rookie mistakes or always do it. I think its safe to assume he will look better behind a competent O line and with some play makes who can win their matchup and make some contested catches. The flash plays give me hope he can improve the consistency on the routine easy stuff to be a great QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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