YoloinOhio Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 It’s hard to play quarterback in the NFL. With rookies struggling in the middle of a passing boom, we need to remind ourselves this. Together, the five 2018 first-round pick quarterbacks (Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson) have thrown 792 passes for just 5,155 yards, 27 touchdowns and 27 interceptions in 2018. Their collective Adjusted Yards per Attempt(AY/A) of 5.7 is a worse mark than any NFL offense run by a veteran quarterback this season. Bad? Absolutely. A cause for concern? No. If you look at the history of rookie first-round picks, you should have expected nothing more than bad stats in Year 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: How many people on this board were saying that Goff was a bust because of his first year travails? How many people thought that Mahomes was not going to succeed because of his poor foot work? What I can guarantee you if this organization doesn't dramatically increase the talent on the OL and receiver corps units you will be setting up our current rookie qb to fail. What the Rams did in Goff's first offseason is bring in two free agent starters on the line and remake the receiving unit. With our good cap situation and draft assets there is no good reason to not address those deficiencies. 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Wow, a dose of much needed sanity on this board! Thank you. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsInWilmingtonNC Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 This gives me at least a little more hope but the eye test has been discouraging so far... Hoping he turns it around in his 2nd season and looks more like Luck, Goff, and Manning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, JohnC said: How many people on this board were saying that Goff was a bust because of his first year travails? How many people thought that Mahomes was not going to succeed because of his poor foot work? What I can guarantee you if this organization doesn't dramatically increase the talent on the OL and receiver corps units you will be setting up our current rookie qb to fail. What the Rams did in Goff's first offseason is bring in two free agent starters on the line and remake the receiving unit. With our good cap situation and draft assets there is no good reason to not address those deficiencies. This is spot on all around! There were a ton of people here labeling Goff as a bust under Jeff friggin Fisher. Allen deserves all of next year with weapons to even open up the convo of stick with him (franchise) or move on (bust). Edited October 29, 2018 by Real McCoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 QB Rookie Year Stats since 2015, updated for this week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 19 minutes ago, BillsInWilmingtonNC said: This gives me at least a little more hope but the eye test has been discouraging so far... Hoping he turns it around in his 2nd season and looks more like Luck, Goff, and Manning My guess is that if you were watching the other rookie QB's as closely as you're watching Allen they wouldn't be passing the eye test either. It's always fun to check out other teams message boards to see what they're saying. if you did you might be surprised at how many fans in Cleveland are screaming that "Mayfield sucks" or that "Darnold is a bust". 2 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: QB Rookie Year Stats since 2015, updated for this week. This is an interesting stat sheet. It suggests that 1st year performance might not be that important. I mean have you guys seen how Winston & Mariota have been playing lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: I feel like someone else said something very similar recently: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 27 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: This is spot on all around! There were a ton of people here labeling Goff as a bust under Jeff friggin Fisher. Allen deserves all of next year with weapons to even open up the convo of stick with him (franchise) or move on (bust). Ah... but not everyone. When I reviewed every snap Goff took as a rookie I did say sure he struggled some but he played better than the box scores and was not that much behind Wentz who in his rookie year didn't play quite as well as his box scores. I am still more toward the sceptical end of the Josh Allen spectrum but he absolutely gets the whole season next season before I want to Bills to even consider making a definitive judgment. His injury sucks because it means he gets less time on the field this year. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsInWilmingtonNC Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said: My guess is that if you were watching the other rookie QB's as closely as you're watching Allen they wouldn't be passing the eye test either. It's always fun to check out other teams message boards to see what they're saying. if you did you might be surprised at how many fans in Cleveland are screaming that "Mayfield sucks" or that "Darnold is a bust". This is an interesting stat sheet. It suggests that 1st year performance might not be that important. I mean have you guys seen how Winston & Mariota have been playing lately? Oh no, I should have clarified, I definitely have not watched as closely... just here and there on the other guys, and the throws that they ARE making are unimpressive for the most part... with maybe the exception of a few of the throws on Rosen's last drive yesterday. I haven't seen many big boy throws out of any of the rookies. I was speaking about Allen though, and how he looked worse and worse with each start, although he did seem to make improvements/adjustments to his game (Not spinning out of the pocket, hurdling guys), it just seems he has to learn to win games by sitting in the pocket, reading the defense, and being accurate with his throws, and he hasn't shown much ability to do that. But don't get me wrong, I am 100% rooting for him to succeed, and I do have more faith in McBeane than most people so I have to give Allen the benefit of the doubt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 This tells us that rookie QBs rarely produce. It doesn't tell us if we can expect Allen to start producing in Year 2. While this post might get rid of some of the pessimism, it's not really a justification for optimism. I think Beane's in a tough position. He knows the team need a quality QB but he doesn't know yet if he has one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 3 hours ago, thebandit27 said: I feel like someone else said something very similar recently: Self-congratulations and promotions are gauche. However, prompting others to sing your praise is acceptable if done discreetly. Good call Bandito. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 7 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Ah... but not everyone. When I reviewed every snap Goff took as a rookie I did say sure he struggled some but he played better than the box scores and was not that much behind Wentz who in his rookie year didn't play quite as well as his box scores. I am still more toward the sceptical end of the Josh Allen spectrum but he absolutely gets the whole season next season before I want to Bills to even consider making a definitive judgment.His injury sucks because it means he gets less time on the field this year. I respectfully but strenuously disagree with you that Allen's injury was detrimental to his development. In a perverse sense the injury was the best thing that could happen to him. It gave the qb who was being overwhelmed a hiatus and allowed him to stand back and assess what is going on. I'm not happy that he got hurt but I think that he needed a pause and more study work to get a better grasp of how to play. In the long-run playing this season certainly will accelerate his development and better prepare him for the next offseason and season. But when you are drowning in the pool you need to be pulled out of it to catch your breath and clear your water logged lungs. As mediocre a qb Anderson is watching him play and prepare is beneficial for the rookie. . 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 19 minutes ago, JohnC said: I respectfully but strenuously disagree with you that Allen's injury was detrimental to his development. In a perverse sense the injury was the best thing that could happen to him. It gave the qb who was being overwhelmed a hiatus and allowed him to stand back and assess what is going on. I'm not happy that he got hurt but I think that he needed a pause and more study work to get a better grasp of how to play. In the long-run playing this season certainly will accelerate his development and better prepare him for the next offseason and season. But when you are drowning in the pool you need to be pulled out of it to catch your breath and clear your water logged lungs. As mediocre a qb Anderson is watching him play and prepare is beneficial for the rookie. . Maybe, maybe not. I don't think we will know that for a while yet. My instinct is that once you are in you are better staying in and taking your lumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 28 minutes ago, JohnC said: I respectfully but strenuously disagree with you that Allen's injury was detrimental to his development. In a perverse sense the injury was the best thing that could happen to him. It gave the qb who was being overwhelmed a hiatus and allowed him to stand back and assess what is going on. I'm not happy that he got hurt but I think that he needed a pause and more study work to get a better grasp of how to play. In the long-run playing this season certainly will accelerate his development and better prepare him for the next offseason and season. But when you are drowning in the pool you need to be pulled out of it to catch your breath and clear your water logged lungs. As mediocre a qb Anderson is watching him play and prepare is beneficial for the rookie. . That was how I felt, but you put it better than I probably would have. This season is lost, it’s all about bringing him along and he seemed to need a break. I’m just glad that break wasn’t in his leg or neck behind that line. Regroup and get back in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 16 minutes ago, Augie said: That was how I felt, but you put it better than I probably would have. This season is lost, it’s all about bringing him along and he seemed to need a break. I’m just glad that break wasn’t in his leg or neck behind that line. Regroup and get back in there. What I like about Josh is that he (as are the other highly drafted qbs this year) is a hard worker who is going to use the offseason to diligently prepare. As I stated in other posts it is up to this staff to put him in a good position to succeed. The best way to do that is to upgrade the OL and the receiver corps. We have the cap capital and draft picks to address those areas. The model I am looking at is what the Rams did to help Goff's advancement. After his rookie year they brought in two offensive linemen and completely revamped their receiving unit through free agency and the draft. With the excellent coaching of McVay Goff made a quantum leap forward. Now playing in his second year he is considered one of the better qbs in the league. Don't misinterpret what I'm saying. I'm not saying that Allen is as good as Goff who is certainly a more prolific passer. But my point is that if you smartly address your stark deficiencies on offense you will increase the odds that the qb you invested in will more likely succeed. As you astutely noted this season isn't about wins and losses. It is more about developing Josh Allen. How this offseason is handled will be critical to that issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Rookie QB's tend to struggle, there are some exceptions of course but the trend is for them to not be very good year 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Maybe, maybe not. I don't think we will know that for a while yet. My instinct is that once you are in you are better staying in and taking your lumps. In my opinion.....regardless of whether he plays another snap this season he at least got game time to carry with him into the offseason....and hopefully a better supporting cast is on its way...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILBillsfan Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Peyton manning I heard the other day talking about how much he learned in the third and fourth quarters as he struggled as a rookie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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