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Structural Organizational Issues


Berky1010
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Just now, BuffaloBillies said:

 

 

 

I love this site because we talk all things football and the Bills.

Can't confirm this, but someone told me there are other places online to discuss your politics.

My post was about disrespecting the member here. Nothing to do with politics.

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2 hours ago, Berky1010 said:

The long standing issue of attracting top tier talent to Buffalo is going to continue to put Buffalo at a disadvantage versus other markets. It comes down to a number of factors that work against us:

 

1. Winning Culture: All else equal, Buffalo will always lose in this department based on our history

 

2. Taxes: NY personal income tax rates and changes in tax law make employment in Buffalo extremely expensive for high earners. They will always prefer places like Florida and Texas where there are low or no-taxes. We will always have to overpay. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-19/nfl-teams-risk-talent-drain-in-high-tax-states-as-breaks-curbed

 

3. Location: I love WNY and there will always be people who will be attracted to the region. However, top prospects in the prime of their career trying to build a brand will not come here. NYC, LA, South Florida and Dallas will continue to be more premier markets for these players.

 

You can argue that it has largely been this way for decades, but the media prominence and brand of the NFL is much larger than what it was when we made our run in the 90s (and even then players complained about coming here). If we are going to win, it is going to take master execution in free agency and even moreso in the draft. We will need to try and lock up players ahead of their contract expirations. Otherwise, contracts like we gave underperforming talent like Mario Williams and Marcell Dareus will set an organization like ours back for years.

Green Bay has always been a comparison market for Buffalo. While different in many ways, including winning culture and history, plenty of players have developed brands in that market. Has nothing to do with the area, just has to do with winning. Win football games, players will come play.

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Good point. That's why New York teams like the Yankees never get top players. That's why they would want to go to a tax haven like California. And it's the reason why smaller cities like us, an Pittsburgh will never get big name players or win championships. Also, IN before this gets moved to PPP.

4 minutes ago, BuffaloBillies said:

 

 

 

I love this site because we talk all things football and the Bills.

Can't confirm this, but someone told me there are other places online to discuss your politics.

I've seen this happen once. Maybe someone on this site could put a different section here specifically for users to discuss things like Politics, Polls, and Pundits. That'd be neat.

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2 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Spot on.  Truth is you have to pay to get guys here.  We all love Western New York, but the rest of the county does not.  That is why I don't get on the team for overpaying for guys.  It just is what it is.  

 

Thanks. And another interesting thing, yeah, not too many people know much about WNY but we hear it quite a bit when players sign here that they were unfamiliar with the area but quickly fall in love with it. Micah Hyde is a perfect example, he loves it here. He wasn't sure what to expect when he signed here but he's had nothing but positive things to say regarding the area and the fans. We might be a bunch of table-breaking knuckleheads at times but it's pretty well known around the league that Buffalo has one of the best fan bases and provides one of the most fun and entertaining tailgating and gameday experiences out there. And this comes from people not from this area. Can't remember the dude's name, but there's a sportswriter out there (Seth Wickersham keeps coming to mind but I have no idea if that's the right guy) who has seen a game in every (or nearly every) single NFL stadium, and he was on Shredd & Ragan a while back and said that his experience in Buffalo was top three out of all the places he's been. 

 

And even more recently, some Green Bay fans were signing the praises of Buffalo fans after the game up there a few weeks ago. Several GB fans approached Bills fans' tailgates and wanted to be tossed through tables. Those fans were more than happy to oblige, lol. And they weren't d*cks about it either. We ain't out here trying to hurt anyone, we just like to up the ante on what "fun at a tailgate" means to us. 

 

I'm definitely excited to see who this organization goes after at the trade deadline and this off-season.

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3 hours ago, Berky1010 said:

The long standing issue of attracting top tier talent to Buffalo is going to continue to put Buffalo at a disadvantage versus other markets. It comes down to a number of factors that work against us:

 

1. Winning Culture: All else equal, Buffalo will always lose in this department based on our history

 

2. Taxes: NY personal income tax rates and changes in tax law make employment in Buffalo extremely expensive for high earners. They will always prefer places like Florida and Texas where there are low or no-taxes. We will always have to overpay. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-19/nfl-teams-risk-talent-drain-in-high-tax-states-as-breaks-curbed

 

3. Location: I love WNY and there will always be people who will be attracted to the region. However, top prospects in the prime of their career trying to build a brand will not come here. NYC, LA, South Florida and Dallas will continue to be more premier markets for these players.

 

You can argue that it has largely been this way for decades, but the media prominence and brand of the NFL is much larger than what it was when we made our run in the 90s (and even then players complained about coming here). If we are going to win, it is going to take master execution in free agency and even moreso in the draft. We will need to try and lock up players ahead of their contract expirations. Otherwise, contracts like we gave underperforming talent like Mario Williams and Marcell Dareus will set an organization like ours back for years.

 

Solid posts but those aren't organizational issues. Once we rebuild the offense the glory days will be here again.

 

Also heard if a New Yorker won the 970 million lottery they would only get 382. Gotta love the communist state of New York.

 

 

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1 hour ago, BuffaloBillies said:

 

 

 

I love this site because we talk all things football and the Bills.

Can't confirm this, but someone told me there are other places online to discuss your politics.

I got a demerit for a mild one sentence veering into politics under a Bills topic. So I haven't done it since.

 

I also got another for something else, that was somewhat merited.

 

I still feel shame for that.  0:)

 

  

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This is one of the most level headed threads ive seen on this forum

 

so much better than all the delusional fans thinking this team is set for the future just b/c we have high cap space. 

 

Cap space means nothing for a team like ours. We are a historically mediocre team with little talent, not much outlook of success, small market, and play in a state with massive taxes. 

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33 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Solid posts but those aren't organizational issues. Once we rebuild the offense the glory days will be here again.

 

Also heard if a New Yorker won the 970 million lottery they would only get 382. Gotta love the communist state of New York.

 

 

you can get all 970 if you take it over 20 years or whatever that state offers.

 

all will still be subject to taxes just like any income you receive.

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3 hours ago, Berky1010 said:

The long standing issue of attracting top tier talent to Buffalo is going to continue to put Buffalo at a disadvantage versus other markets. It comes down to a number of factors that work against us:

 

1. Winning Culture: All else equal, Buffalo will always lose in this department based on our history

 

2. Taxes: NY personal income tax rates and changes in tax law make employment in Buffalo extremely expensive for high earners. They will always prefer places like Florida and Texas where there are low or no-taxes. We will always have to overpay. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-19/nfl-teams-risk-talent-drain-in-high-tax-states-as-breaks-curbed

 

3. Location: I love WNY and there will always be people who will be attracted to the region. However, top prospects in the prime of their career trying to build a brand will not come here. NYC, LA, South Florida and Dallas will continue to be more premier markets for these players.

 

You can argue that it has largely been this way for decades, but the media prominence and brand of the NFL is much larger than what it was when we made our run in the 90s (and even then players complained about coming here). If we are going to win, it is going to take master execution in free agency and even moreso in the draft. We will need to try and lock up players ahead of their contract expirations. Otherwise, contracts like we gave underperforming talent like Mario Williams and Marcell Dareus will set an organization like ours back for years.

 

I feel like I'm in the minority half the time when it comes to other fans thoughts or ideas. When we signed Mario Williams in free agency he was a stud DE, prize of FA and a generational type of player much like Khalil Mack and although we gave Williams a boatload of money to come here he was an elite player for 3 years so when you say he was an "under performing talent" it makes me laugh, the guy had 126 tackles, 38 sacks, 5 FF, 9 pass deflections, that is an under performing talent? Again Dareus was an elite player his 1st couple of years here which is why he got that giant contract and he was drafted by the team not a FA.

 

The winning culture theory should be thrown out the door since this team made the playoffs last year, what we did 17 years ago is most likely erased, that's just an opinion of mine since if this were the case how would we land any free agents? 

 

 

You make a valid point about the taxes being an issue for players but the Giants/Jets and Bills never really had much trouble getting guys to play here, have you ever heard a player say I wouldn't sign with the Bills because the taxes are too high? Just asking.

 

The location you state is not true and if you did a little research you'd find that the top tier free agents went to  QB Kirk Cousins (Minnesota), QB Drew Brees (New Orleans),  WR Allen Robinson (Chicago), CB Richard Sherman (San francisco), G Andrew Norwell (Jacksonville), CB Trumaine Johnson (New York), TE Jimmy Graham (Green Bay), QB Kase Keenum (Denver), WR Sammy Watkins (Kansas City),  OT Nate Solder (Giants), CB Malcolm Butler (Tennessee), RB Carlos Hyde (Cleveland), DE Muhammed Wilkerson (Green bay), QB Sam bradford (Arizona), only 4 of these guys qualify in the regions you are talking about.

 

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2 hours ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said:

Good point. That's why New York teams like the Yankees never get top players. That's why they would want to go to a tax haven like California. And it's the reason why smaller cities like us, an Pittsburgh will never get big name players or win championships. Also, IN before this gets moved to PPP.

I've seen this happen once. Maybe someone on this site could put a different section here specifically for users to discuss things like Politics, Polls, and Pundits. That'd be neat.

 

Yeahhhh I think you missed the point about a "winning culture" BJ...

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1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Solid posts but those aren't organizational issues. Once we rebuild the offense the glory days will be here again.

 

Also heard if a New Yorker won the 970 million lottery they would only get 382. Gotta love the communist state of New York.

 

 

 

 

......pretty interesting article on the taxation these guys face..................

This is what a pro athlete’s tax return looks like

Because of the ‘jock tax,’ athletes must file taxes in almost every state in which they play

By StevenKutz  Deputy Personal Finance Editor-MarketWatch

 

NFL player Josh Martin’s taxes this year should be a lot less complicated than they were last season.

Martin, a 24-year-old linebacker who enters training camp with the New York Jets on Wednesday, recently spoke with MarketWatch about why his situation last year made his tax return as thick as “a bible.”

 

It was mainly due to something in professional sports referred to as the “jock tax,” which means players have to pay the tax rate of the state they’re playing in on their salary for that game .

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-jock-tax-and-why-a-professional-athletes-tax-form-can-be-as-big-as-a-bible-2016-07-27

published: Aug 29, 2016 9:51 a.m. ET

Edited by OldTimeAFLGuy
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36 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

I feel like I'm in the minority half the time when it comes to other fans thoughts or ideas. When we signed Mario Williams in free agency he was a stud DE, prize of FA and a generational type of player much like Khalil Mack and although we gave Williams a boatload of money to come here he was an elite player for 3 years so when you say he was an "under performing talent" it makes me laugh, the guy had 126 tackles, 38 sacks, 5 FF, 9 pass deflections, that is an under performing talent? Again Dareus was an elite player his 1st couple of years here which is why he got that giant contract and he was drafted by the team not a FA.

 

The winning culture theory should be thrown out the door since this team made the playoffs last year, what we did 17 years ago is most likely erased, that's just an opinion of mine since if this were the case how would we land any free agents? 

 

 

You make a valid point about the taxes being an issue for players but the Giants/Jets and Bills never really had much trouble getting guys to play here, have you ever heard a player say I wouldn't sign with the Bills because the taxes are too high? Just asking.

 

The location you state is not true and if you did a little research you'd find that the top tier free agents went to  QB Kirk Cousins (Minnesota), QB Drew Brees (New Orleans),  WR Allen Robinson (Chicago), CB Richard Sherman (San francisco), G Andrew Norwell (Jacksonville), CB Trumaine Johnson (New York), TE Jimmy Graham (Green Bay), QB Kase Keenum (Denver), WR Sammy Watkins (Kansas City),  OT Nate Solder (Giants), CB Malcolm Butler (Tennessee), RB Carlos Hyde (Cleveland), DE Muhammed Wilkerson (Green bay), QB Sam bradford (Arizona), only 4 of these guys qualify in the regions you are talking about.

 

 

Have you ever considered why the Jets and Giants have a stadium in New Jersey as opposed to New York? That was almost certainly a key consideration. Also, those other areas you are naming have a LOT to offer - New Orleans? SF? Chicago? All major markets compared to us.

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26 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

still never get all of it even over 20 years and I bet this states income taxes are higher than most

 

 

 

...virtually no escaping bud......send it in and they'll waste it......................

 

Seven U.S. states forgo individual income taxes as of 2018: Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington and Wyoming. Residents of New Hampshire and Tennessee are also spared from handing over an extra chunk of their paycheck, though they do pay tax on dividends and income from investments.

 

The 10 highest income tax states for 2018 are:

 

  • California 13.3%
  • Hawaii 11%
  • Oregon 9.9%
  • Minnesota 9.85%
  • Iowa 8.98%
  • New Jersey 8.97%
  • Vermont 8.95%
  • District of Columbia 8.95%
  • New York 8.82%
  • Wisconsin 7.65%
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2 hours ago, COTC said:

My post was about disrespecting the member here. Nothing to do with politics.

And the post that precipitated the post you thought was disrespectful was fine I suppose. The guy made a disrespectful political post to begin with. ????

Edited by Radar
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57 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

still never get all of it even over 20 years and I bet this states income taxes are higher than most

 

 

you will gross the complete 970 over 20 or 30 years.

you never net all of any income due to taxes. So not sure where you are going with this.

 

it is not the states job to give you tax free lottery winnings. In Europe they do have lotteries that are guaranteed after taxes. So if you win a million you actually get more to pay any taxes due.

 

only tax free income I can think of in US is life insurance.

Edited by cba fan
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NY Taxes don't compare to California home values.  A WNY  $200,000 2,400 square ft house on a half acre won't qualify for a 20% down-payment on a 1,600 ft 3 bedroom ranch on less land than typical WNY front yard for $800,000 to more than $1million depending on where you live. And the taxes on that home are much higher than in WNY. State income taxes are relatively equal. If you want the same size house, be prepared to pay $3 -5 million, imagine the taxes on that.  And they buy those homes and pay those taxes.

 

As for player preferences, you might not remember, but Jim Kelly didn't want to come here either.  He used to wear a Raiders cap and that was after he played in the USFL. But top tier athletes have come here and Green Bay and Kansas City, Chicago, certainly Boston.  They go to where to the team that wants to pay them.  The Bills structural issues emanate from the organization itself, from the top to the GM's and coaches, not taxes.  Location, maybe, but not always.

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7 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

Free agents are looking for 3 things.

1. A ring 

2. Playing time

3. Money

 

We obviously are not attracting the ring chasers, which is fine those are usually guys on the back end of their career. 

 

We can offer the other 2 though. In our current state we will overpay for whoever we get, but that’s basically exactly what free agency is. Everyone overpays for the most part. I hate the people don’t want to play in buffalo stuff, I like to think the money and competitive side of players makes them want to be apart of building something. 

In the end free agency is all about the contract and guaranteed money. Any team who offers that lands the player. Does a team like buffalo have to tack on a few extra bucks or guarantee a little more? Sure, but after how they’ve ran the past 15 years they should have to 

 

Reverse your order and it is spot on. Players want money first, then playing time.

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