How much blame does Daboll deserve?

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, NewDayBills said:

I explained my views on Allen, they expect him to play hero ball which is why his numbers are so bad. If Daboll wants to pound the ball or if he is trying to is the wrong question, the question is, has he been successful at it? If you agree that Daboll has been putrid at running the football #1 - Who picks up the slack? #2- Why exactly are you disagreeing with me?

Because you simply cannot be watching the same offense I am every Sunday if you think " Daboll wants to throw all the time when he should be trying to pound the ball."

[Victory Formation]

7 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Because you simply cannot be watching the same offense I am every Sunday if you think " Daboll wants to throw all the time when he should be trying to pound the ball."

Well, if he wants to run, he is a complete failure at it honestly. The reason why I feel we are passing too much is more of a reflection on the dubious passing situations they are putting Allen in. Expecting him to convert 3rd and 16 or 3rd and 20 is way too much for a top 5 QB let alone an extremely raw project. 

 

Numbers and attempts only tell you so much. I'd be okay with passing more if they were 1 yard screens, but 20 attempts or not Allen was put in some dubious situations where he needed to complete 20 yard strikes.

 

Do you understand?

Edited October 16, 2018 by NewDayBills

[brianthomas]

 what youre also seeing is what i call the Tyrod effect. Where defenses arent scared of your passing attack so they sell out more on the run. Thats why imo our running totals havent been good. (Also due to the offensive linemen who #1 some shouldnt be starting on any NFL team & #2 our run blocking scheme & some guys inability to execute such schemes). Its also why some of Allens best throws have come on play action. Defenses probably bite just that little bit more vs us. I mean why not? Its not like we can consistently punish them for it. But i digress.

 

I'm not in the sky is falling crowd. I didn't expect Allen to start this year & didn't want him to. Maybe the kid in me wanted to see him, just like a kid wanting to see his new toys for Christmas. I am glad however that Allen won't be starting the next few games. Dude can heal up & get back at it in the 2nd half of the season to pick up some more reps.

By the end of the year we'll have a better idea of where we stand & can make the moves to set Josh Allen & this team up for success. I know we're sick of waiting but all good things yanno haha

 

GO BILLS?

[GunnerBill]

44 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

In the end, we are trying to run, but we haven't been to successful at it, have we? Did you read my entire post through? You know, the post you quoted me on? Ivory is averaging what? 2.5ypc? Murphy probably doesn't even have 20 attempts on the year. What does this lack of a running attack mean for Allen? Or all the penalties? Yep, it means 3rd and long, he's expected to convert ridiculous odds, most of the time even a top 5 QB would struggle with. My perception is not as absurd as you make it seem.

 

Yep. Because the offensive players are incapable of executing properly. The offensive execution was bad in 2017, it is even worse in 2018. At the end of the day there are not many schemes that have plays in the playbook that don't involve guys having to block, run routes or catch. 

 

Sean McVay would struggle to make this offense good, because it is an offense made up of mainly bad football players.

[Victory Formation]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. Because the offensive players are incapable of executing properly. The offensive execution was bad in 2017, it is even worse in 2018. At the end of the day there are not many schemes that have plays in the playbook that don't involve guys having to block, run routes or catch. 

 

Sean McVay would struggle to make this offense good, because it is an offense made up of mainly bad football players.

I think McDermott doesn't know offense, first he hired Dennison and now Daboll. You say it's talent, I say it's coaching. What I think will happen is we'll bring in a bunch of fresh bodies and nothing will change. Same old Bills.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

But Hogan and Woods weren't good according to fans and management. I'm not saying every player is good, I'm saying that we have a tendency of throwing out entire ribeye steaks instead of simply trimming the fat. Meanwhile all 31 NFL teams grab their lunch trays and line up for an all you can eat buffet at our expense. We draft good players extremely high and in 4 years they're out the door. Identifying which players we should keep has been a problem historically speaking for Buffalo. We have a history of straight cutting underperforming starters instead of drafting or signing competition which would improve the quality of the starting unit and the depth behind them. To me it's like a snake eating it's own tail.

 

I agree with your premise - historically, ID'ing players to keep has been a major issue here.  It's not so much cutting, however, as how we price them in FA.   It wasn't that management thought Hogan and Woods weren't good; they recognized they were legit NFL players.  It's that they undervalued them - perceived them as JAG, Woods = Jordan Matthews. 

 

Um, no.  Not even if "too much doing" was his problem.

 

Partly it's how they've been used and what they've produced while here.

 

 

[BillsFanCRNA]

17 hours ago, The Process said:

He's college football level in creativity and innovation. 

Coming in after Kiffin, I didn't find him all that creative or innovative at Bama to be honest...

12 hours ago, Soda Popinski said:

when can we draft Tua Taguvaloa?

Not soon enough!

[Victory Formation]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I agree with your premise - historically, ID'ing players to keep has been a major issue here.  It's not so much cutting, however, as how we price them in FA.   It wasn't that management thought Hogan and Woods weren't good; they recognized they were legit NFL players.  It's that they undervalued them - perceived them as JAG, Woods = Jordan Matthews. 

 

Um, no.  Not even if "too much doing" was his problem.

 

Partly it's how they've been used and what they've produced while here.

 

 

And the truth is and to me it's a very disturbing truth but in my mind, the truth nonetheless, but nobody is beating the Buffalo Bills but the Buffalo Bills and I think that's sad. We've actually had a few really solid players in the draft I thought, guys that we could build something with, but nope, gone like the wind. None of these players were perfect people but so what, nobody is, they're still our guys and we handpicked them.

[Nihilarian]

While I agree that talent is lacking on the offense in the players. I also believe the talent is lacking in the coaches. I mean c'mon now 12 penalties for 104 yards and players not lined up where they are supposed to be lined up among other screwups. These men are professional players, so how do they not know how to do their jobs? One word! COACHING! 

 

Most Bills fans wouldn't put Nathan Peterman in a game so why do the coaches do it? They do it because the kid is inexperienced and needs to play to develop. He is a very hard worker and does all the right things in practice, works hard, studies hard, tries hard and yet screws up in games because he doesn't know the limitations of his own arm. THIS IS ALSO COACHING! The coaches should be able to recognize a players ability to get it done in a game by watching him in practice. That is "IF" they know what they are doing!

 

If you look at this years offense you see that there is no elite talent on the offensive line and really only one good player in LT Dion Dawkins. DT Kyle Williams will tell you all day that good players on the D line make other players better at doing their jobs. The better a player is the better he helps make the players around him better. When you have a line full of scrubs it doesn't do much for anyone. While Incognito, Woods might not have been elite players. They were both really good players who helped make the players around them look better. 

 

That said the same goes for the WR corps as the Bills have no elite players at WR and perhaps one good player who is being utilized all wrong as he doesn't have break away speed or the ability to get great separation. What he does have is amazing size in being 6'5'' 245 LBs with is a clear mismatch against smaller DB's.  So. It's up to the coaching staff to find ways to get him the ball over the top. Anyone else recall how Bill Walsh always had Jerry Rice receiving the ball with his body between the defender and the ball so the defender could not make a play on it. Yea, kinda like that!

 

The Buffalo Bills do have one elite player on offense in LeSean McCoy and against the Texans he was averaging 4.6 yards per carry. So why only 16 carries for 73 yards?  By the same token Chris Ivory averaged 0.8 YPC on 6 carries for 5 yards. This tells me when Ivory comes in the game the defense damn well knows who is getting the ball and they stop him. ALL THIS IS ON COACHING! 

 

McCoy being underutilized. Ivory put in bad situations. KB put in bad situations. Not running the ball enough. Not enough innovation, not enough screens, not enough roll outs, not enough misdirection plays. The toughest thing a defense can face is to start moving one way and then change direction and start running the other way. It literally wears a defense out. 

 

It's too bad that McD knows very little on how to run an offense or he could take it over and redirect things like other offensive minded coaches have done. Coaches like Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan, Doug Pederson, Andy Reid and even Chan Gailey could get so much more out of the limited players on this roster. IMHO

[Victory Formation]

3 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

While I agree that talent is lacking on the offense in the players. I also believe the talent is lacking in the coaches. I mean c'mon now 12 penalties for 104 yards and players not lined up where they are supposed to be lined up among other screwups. These men are professional players, so how do they not know how to do their jobs? One word! COACHING! 

 

Most Bills fans wouldn't put Nathan Peterman in a game so why do the coaches do it? They do it because the kid is inexperienced and needs to play to develop. He is a very hard worker and does all the right things in practice, works hard, studies hard, tries hard and yet screws up in games because he doesn't know the limitations of his own arm. THIS IS ALSO COACHING! The coaches should be able to recognize a players ability to get it done in a game by watching him in practice. That is "IF" they know what they are doing!

 

If you look at this years offense you see that there is no elite talent on the offensive line and really only one good player in LT Dion Dawkins. DT Kyle Williams will tell you all day that good players on the D line make other players better at doing their jobs. The better a player is the better he helps make the players around him better. When you have a line full of scrubs it doesn't do much for anyone. While Incognito, Woods might not have been elite players. They were both really good players who helped make the players around them look better. 

 

That said the same goes for the WR corps as the Bills have no elite players at WR and perhaps one good player who is being utilized all wrong as he doesn't have break away speed or the ability to get great separation. What he does have is amazing size in being 6'5'' 245 LBs with is a clear mismatch against smaller DB's.  So. It's up to the coaching staff to find ways to get him the ball over the top. Anyone else recall how Bill Walsh always had Jerry Rice receiving the ball with his body between the defender and the ball so the defender could not make a play on it. Yea, kinda like that!

 

The Buffalo Bills do have one elite player on offense in LeSean McCoy and against the Texans he was averaging 4.6 yards per carry. So why only 16 carries for 73 yards?  By the same token Chris Ivory averaged 0.8 YPC on 6 carries for 5 yards. This tells me when Ivory comes in the game the defense damn well knows who is getting the ball and they stop him. ALL THIS IS ON COACHING! 

 

McCoy being underutilized. Ivory put in bad situations. KB put in bad situations. Not running the ball enough. Not enough innovation, not enough screens, not enough roll outs, not enough misdirection plays. The toughest thing a defense can face is to start moving one way and then change direction and start running the other way. It literally wears a defense out. 

 

It's too bad that McD knows very little on how to run an offense or he could take it over and redirect things like other offensive minded coaches have done. Coaches like Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan, Doug Pederson, Andy Reid and even Chan Gailey could get so much more out of the limited players on this roster. IMHO

Thank God, someone else sees it too. Good post brother, good post.

[gobills1212]

Blame who for what now?

Why bother when you can just fire em all?!?!

[4thandGoal]

oh yeah..  a lot of the blame should be on Daboll-- yes we have no weapons but his play calling is atrocious-- he should rely on McCoy more. There should be more creative packages with out lack of talent. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Not much.

 

The Head Coach looks for a stylistic match to his philosophy. 

 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

I think McDermott doesn't know offense, first he hired Dennison and now Daboll. You say it's talent, I say it's coaching. What I think will happen is we'll bring in a bunch of fresh bodies and nothing will change. Same old Bills.

 

I say this offense is historically undertalented. 

[Nelius]

I'd say about 75%. We'll knock off 25% for the ***** personnel decisions, the rest is on him. He's horrible.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Nelius

[Pasaluki]

Honestly if it were any other team I'd want Daboll's feet held to the fire, but honestly the main problem is personnel which Daboll doesnt get much say in. Hard to doll up such an ugly pig.

[Victory Formation]

35 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I say this offense is historically undertalented. 

Could be. Who says I'm right? Just my perception and my perception could be wrong.

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Pasaluki said:

Honestly if it were any other team I'd want Daboll's feet held to the fire, but honestly the main problem is personnel which Daboll doesnt get much say in. Hard to doll up such an ugly pig.

 

This. Daboll may suck. His career history is certainly less than that of the man he replaced who at least had a history of coordinating middle of the road NFL offenses - Daboll's history is bottom of the pack offenses. 

 

The problem is it is impossible to know. When I watch the all22 each week I am seeing play after play after play fail because players can't execute the basics - block, run routes and catch. 

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, 4thandGoal said:

oh yeah..  a lot of the blame should be on Daboll-- yes we have no weapons but his play calling is atrocious-- he should rely on McCoy more. There should be more creative packages with out lack of talent. 

 

Go watch the all 22 of the first 4 weeks. Lots of creative packages - multiple tight end sets, misdirection runs, rpo concepts. He had to abandon them precisely because our lack of talent could not execute. They have massively simplified the gameplans the last two weeks. Everything is half-field read, lots of 21personnel, pared back pre-snap movement. And our collection of misfits, a rookie QB and our 1 actual talent is hardly executing that any better. 

[The Process]

9 hours ago, BillsFanCRNA said:

Coming in after Kiffin, I didn't find him all that creative or innovative at Bama to be honest...

Not soon enough!

Quick ....build a dome and plant palm trees.